Talks by Nirodbaran

27 November 1969

[A talk given to the students of Mother's School, Delhi, during their visit to the Ashram. Kireet bhai first introduced Nirod-da.]

I'll tell you a few words about Nirod-da. He came to the Ashram several decades ago. When he came back from England, he returned with a medical degree. But he turned to poetry under Sri Aurobindo's guidance. He began to write poetry - and he is known to us, first and foremost, as a poet. It is important to tell you the value of the privilege that he had. He wrote hundreds of letters to Sri Aurobindo, and he got answers from Him, on a number of subjects. He also used to be with Sri Aurobindo for many, many years. And if you read Mother India, you'll often find excerpts from Talks With Sri Aurobindo there - they are all recorded by him for he was a participant of those talks. He had a correspondence with Sri Aurobindo, and a part of it is published in these two volumes [pointing to them], and I must tell you that when I myself first read The Life Divine, I did not understand it so well as I did after having read these two books of

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Correspondence with Sri Aurobindo. So, personally, I owe a great debt to him for getting for me illumination from Sri Aurobindo on many, many important points, not only of metaphysics, but chiefly of Yoga. If you read this correspondence, I'm sure you'll find therein a great fund of humour. I don't know if you are interested in humour, but "Humour is the salt of life" as Sri Aurobindo says. And if you really want to see the humour of Sri Aurobindo and also of Nirod-da, then you'll be extremely delighted to read these two books. Actually, he can speak to you on many things - particularly of his contact with Sri Aurobindo; but I have made a special request to him to tell you something of his correspondence, because you will find therein some taste which is not only of the mind, but also of the soul.

***

[Nirod-da begins his talk.] Well, young friends and old friends, first of all let me greet you, with a hearty welcome to your parent institution.

My friend Kireet has lifted me sky-high by heaping high praise on me; it is his nature to do so. However, I am very glad indeed to meet all you young people, because I believe that meeting young people is a great advantage to elderly people. They can always receive something from the young, and that is why I agreed to meet you face to face. I can draw something more precious from you than what you may get from me.

I consider it a very good sign that our young girls are now waking up to a new life, a new vision, a new spirit. Certainly, it is a very happy sign for the future that particularly our Indian girls are now waking up from their old habits, from their old customs, from their subjection to their parents, to their brothers, etc. As a matter of fact, in this modern age of ours, if you are familiar with what is taking place in the whole world, you will see that there is a revolution going on among the youth, and in some countries, it is the young girls or young women who are taking the leading part. It has been sung by one of our poets that, so long as women are not awakened, there is no hope for India,

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and I think it is for the most part true.

Woman, as you know, represents the Shakti. In our Indian mythology and tradition, woman has always been considered as man's Shakti. If the Shakti is confined to the kitchen, to the bearing of children, etc., then there is no hope for man. And it is a very good augury that womanhood today is breaking all those old shackles. The prison wall is broken down, and we see everywhere the rise of that new vision. Even in the Ashram, having lived here for so many decades, as my brother Kireet said, I see how many Indian women, with or without their husbands, their sisters, their brothers, and their children, are flocking here, dressed in beautiful saris, with their vanity bag hanging from their shoulders. A new spirit, a new life I see in them, which means that something has touched their soul; they are looking for something. And I believe that it is the one direct result of the freedom of India. Since the day India has achieved her freedom, this has happened. And today I am happy still further, to see that we have a woman as our Prime Minister. And you know how she is fighting tooth and nail, against the old guards who are standing in her way, for a new vision, for a new regeneration. So I may call it a new age - the Age of the Woman.

Here in our Ashram, you must have noticed how a new life has been breathed into everything; how boys and girls are mixing freely and taking part in all activities without any distinction of gender. Mother wants me to forget, to banish this old conventional sense of man and woman. We must forget that. We must live in a higher consciousness where this distinction does not exist. At one time in India, I don't know how this concept originated, but there was a ban on women taking part in spiritual life. Perhaps you know the Sanskrit adage: 'Nari narakasya dwaram' - woman is the gate to hell. And 'Kamini', 'kanchan (woman and gold) have to be avoided; and further on, 'Pothe nari biborjita' - when you are going somewhere, leave the woman behind. So that has been the experience of our old people. But today, the Divine has Himself or Herself come down as the "Woman, in order to raise womanhood all over the world. The result,

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you see, is clearly apparent in the Ashram and elsewhere. Mother has said somewhere in Her talks that woman, not man, serves the Divine best; and perhaps man's vanity is hurt, but She must speak the truth. So there you are, my young friends, young girls particularly, there is a bright future for you, and we are waiting to be ruled and governed by you, at least at present!

Now, you want me to speak to you about my association, my contact with Sri Aurobindo. I don't know... it is very difficult to speak about this subject. Particularly as so many of you are young, too young to understand, but all the same, there are others who are more grownup, so I'll try.

All of you are coming from Delhi, which is a great centre. You have come from the political centre of India to the spiritual centre of the whole world. You have seen and you have heard about many great people, great by their actions, by their speeches, by their great movements all over the world - Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Smt. Indira Gandhi, so on and so forth. They are all the time before your eyes, but there is another order of great men, who are not so much before your eyes and who live a secluded life. They are called yogis, who live in union with God, with the Divine, and exercise their influence upon men and upon the world silently, secretly, from behind the veil. And of those yogis, Sri Aurobindo was the summit. All the yogis have said that He was the Lord of Yoga, or the Lord of the Yogis. If I may be poetic, I shall use an image: He was the thousand-petalled Sun.

Though Sri Aurobindo was living in a single place for so many years, since 1910, I don't know if you will believe me if I say that He has moved the whole world by His ideas, by His thoughts, by His spiritual power, through His writings, and through His subtle, invisible spiritual force. Mother and Sri Aurobindo have not gone anywhere, not a single step from where they are, and yet you see today how people from all over the world are flocking here to seek the Light, to seek guidance, to seek protection from them. You people come, batch by batch, all the way from Delhi, so are other people coming

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all the way from America, from England, from France and many other places. And as the years will roll by, you will see that the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry is becoming, more and more, the spiritual centre of the whole world. This is another order of greatness which we call spiritual greatness, for which we need not go from place to place and lecture about it, but still people come to this greatness, drawn, as it were, by some magnetic influence, just as bees are drawn to flowers for honey. Many people have said, "Why don't you people come out and preach and do propaganda?" We say, "That is not the way of spirituality. That need not be done, that has been done before by others." Sri Aurobindo does not believe in such advertising, such propaganda. The souls who are ready for the call, the souls who are in a receptive mood, will come automatically, by themselves. And He said He does not call anybody, people come on their own. They hear the call within themselves, in the heart, and they are drawn by some invisible power and influence. He doesn't want thousands and thousands of disciples, He wants a chosen few who have heard the call, who are ready to obey the call and to pay the price for it.

What is the call? It is the call for a new life, a new race, a new age. Both Mother and Sri Aurobindo have come down here, into this clay world of ours, with a particular mission. It is not to establish another religion like Buddhism, Islam or Christianity. All these -isms are now back in great numbers. But Sri Aurobindo and the Mother do not want to found a religion; they want to establish a new race, a new race of Supramental beings, out of this human material. And I believe that many of you will, one day, belong to this new race. That is their mission and that is what they are doing day and night, night and day. You may have already got some proof of it; you may have had some taste of it, if you have looked a little more intently, quietly, at all the activities that are going on in the Ashram, and particularly in the new city - the City of Dawn (Auroville) - which is on the anvil. Many years from now, perhaps, you'll see that City of Dawn rising, little by little.

So, young friends, let us have this aspiration today that we should

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like to belong to this new race. If you are really interested in Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, I would advise you, first of all, since you are students, to learn, to study well and to develop your mind, your intellectual faculty, and at the same time to develop your life as well; to not live in the old ways of life, to make your life an offering to the Divine, to do all your studies, all your actions, all your activities, not for yourself, not for your parents, but for the Divine. For which, I suppose, your Delhi Centre stands, and which that Centre is trying to fulfil, following in the footsteps of its parent organisation, Sri Aurobindo Ashram. The more you develop inwardly, the more light will come into you, and you will see and you will realise that something stupendous is going on all over the world, with Sri Aurobindo Ashram as the centre.

Well, as my friend Kireet told you, I used to be a medical man. I don't know how, or by what accident, I thought of leading this life! Giving up my medical practice, I came to the Ashram and accepted this life. I was about thirty years old or so then, and at that time, the sadhaks and sadhikas used to write letters to Mother and Sri Aurobindo and would get their answers. I also toed the line, as they say, and began to write to Sri Aurobindo all about the difficulties that I began to face in my new life. And I was surprised to see that Sri Aurobindo was writing back to me in a very friendly manner, in a very intimate way, as if He had known me for a long time, I don't know why. I tell you frankly, I was very much baffled; but still, when He had stretched out His hand in friendship, I was only too eager to accept it, and I took full advantage of it. So here are the two volumes of correspondence between us, of questions and answers. Questions about everything: medical questions, spiritual questions, literary questions, political questions. Regarding the last category, I used to write to Him in secret, and He used to answer secretly, and He would say: "You must not show it to anybody." So the Divine used to play some tricks too!

Some of you who are of age, who have some intellectual understanding, I'm sure, will appreciate these two volumes, and will

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be able to gather much food for thought, much substance for the renewing and rebuilding of your life. Because I am sure many of you are in my shoes, if I may put it this way, as amateur philosophers. These were the common questions that troubled me: Does the Divine exist? "What is Divine Power? etc. Not big, high, philosophical questions like those of Dr. Radhakrishnan or Bergson, but of a common man, of an average student. And He has answered me in the same vein, making the answers as simple as possible, and as full of rasa as possible. Had there been no rasa, I think I would not have enjoyed them as much as I did.

As I said, why He bestowed so much Grace on me is still a mystery and an unsolved problem. I asked Him once, "Why are you so kind to me?" He said, "You find out for yourself." I tried hard, tried, tried and tried, but even till today, I am unable to find the real reason. One reason that strikes me is that perhaps it was so that I might be able to speak about Him to you people. But I may say this much, that these are the two volumes that have made me from what I was to what I am today. Not so much because of what He has written, but because of His kindness, His compassion, His friendship. You know what friendship is, my friends! You have lots of friends, boys and girls. Friendship gives you warmth, friendship gives you inspiration, friendship gives you faith. A true friend is a rare thing in the world, and if that friendship comes from the Divine, it is a treasure immortal, invaluable. And that is what I received, through His Grace, for a number of years. This correspondence has not only helped me in sadhana, but also in poetry. He has sometimes rebuked me, in a very gentle manner; He has sometimes made fun of me, but throughout, there is a pervasive sense of friendship. The Divine is a guide, a friend, a helper who never fails. Even if we fail the Divine, He does not fail us. There lies the beauty of Divine friendship.

That reminds me of another incident. Once I told Him, "Please don't forsake me. I am somewhat of a foolish fellow, with not much knowledge, not much brain, not much wisdom, not much spiritual power. But I have come to you, please don't forsake me." He replied

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so graciously and promptly: "Never!" And I feel, my friends, at every step, His unfailing hand supporting me, helping me in the long, great journey towards some very far, distant goal. I say to you all, it is not because He was especially fond of me. God loves those who love Him. If you love Him or love Her (it's the same thing; when I speak of Sri Aurobindo, I mean the Mother as well), if you love God, if you love the Divine this much, He will love you that much more. If you offer Him this little, He will offer you that much more, that is what I have experienced in my life. Your defects, your drawbacks don't matter at all. Once you fall at His feet, you call Him in your troubles, in your difficulties, in your dangers, in whatever situation of life you are, He is sure to come to you, either visibly or invisibly

.

It is not only in spiritual life that He helps, remember that. Even in your physical activities, in games, in sports, in studies, He is there to help you. As I told you just now, in my poetry, in my art, in my writing, all the time, that help is there. Try it, make an experiment, you'll see - but have faith. I remember an anecdote. You know Sri Ramakrishna had a great disciple, Vivekananda, and he was very fond of him. But Vivekananda was a doubter; he could not blindly accept what Ramakrishna preached. He would say all the time, "I do not believe all you say," and Ramakrishna would say, "I see the Divine Mother, I touch Her, I talk with Her." "I don't believe it. If you show me, then I shall believe." So that was Vivekananda. He was a pakka³⁰⁵ scientist. You must give me the proof - the proof of the pudding lies in the eating! Then, one day, Ramakrishna lost his temper and said, "Then, sala,³⁰⁶ why do you come to me?" and began to abuse him. And Vivekananda gave a reply, "I come to you because I love you." Then Ramakrishna forgot all his anger and hugged him, embraced him. That is what love is. We have only to love the Divine and do everything for Him or for Her. Then it does not matter where you go or what you do; you may be a scientist, you may be an artist, you may be an athlete, you may be a politician, it doesn't matter. In all your

305Ripe, complete, or confirmed, in Hindi.

306Rascal - in Bengali.

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activities, the Divine will help you. Truly, let us engage in all activities as an offering to the Divine, as instruments of the Divine. We are not sannyasis, we are not ascetics; we accept life. We want to change this life from what it is to what it should be.

You know very well what life is like today - you are coming from outside, so you know it better than we do. In the student world, there are strikes - you are from Delhi and in a much better situation. Go to Calcutta and you will see how they harass the professors, and they say, "We don't want this, we want Mao Tsetung." Throughout the year, perhaps only for ten or twelve days, they go to school or college. So this is life, it is so hard for the poor as well as for the rich. And Indira Gandhi is trying her best to put this tottering, rattling, shaking house into some semblance of order. This is what life is today, and Mother and Sri Aurobindo are trying to change this life into another pattern -a Divine pattern. And I am sure They will succeed, Their mission will not fail. Let us all take part in it and make it a success.

Now let me read a few letters. I was telling you just now how the Divine Force is active and helpful in all our activities. Here is what Sri Aurobindo says about Himself: "...In my own case, the first time I started yoga, Pranayama, etc., I belaboured five hours a day for a long time and concentrated and struggled for five years without any least spiritual result..."³⁰⁷

Let us not think that because Sri Aurobindo is the Divine, everything was easy for Him. It was not so. He has said somewhere that all His life has been "a great struggle". Never did anything come smoothly to Him; He had to fight, He had to struggle, He had to work hard. Here, I have just read out to you one instance in His spiritual life. Just consider this carefully - five hours a day doing Pranayama and for five years! Can you think of it? I won't be able to do it for even five minutes a day! And even then, there was no result, except that the results were in other fields - He began to write poetry and prose, which came to Him like a flood, but nothing of spirituality. If you know something of His life, His previous life - I mean, from

307 Correspondence with Sri Aurobindo (1995), I: 370.

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childhood (your teachers may have told you about it) - you will have seen what a series of struggles and hardships He had to face.

One day, I wrote to Him:

It seems that it is futile to make any effort for anything, especially as one gets to meditate; one thought after another surges up ... All efforts are useless, useless!³⁰⁸

So He writes back, rebuking me:

All that is the physical mind, refusing to take the trouble of the labour and struggle necessary for the spiritual achievement. It wants to get the highest, but desires a smooth course all the way, 'Who the devil is going to face so much trouble for getting the Divine' -that is the underlying feeling. The difficulty with the thoughts is a difficulty every yogi has gone through - so is the phenomenon of little result after only a few days of effort. It is only when one has cleared the field and ploughed and sown and watched over it that big harvests can be hoped for.

One must either use effort and then one must be patient and persevering, or one can rely on the Divine with a constant call and aspiration. But then the reliance has to be a true one, not insisting on immediate fruit.

So that is one thing, my friends, that you can do. Have faith, have trust in the Divine. It is easier for you young people than it is for us older ones. We begin to doubt at every step: "Is the Divine coming? When is He coming? Where is He coming? I am calling and calling, there's no answer. He does not come, let me give up." This is the way with us old men. But young people are also impatient in another way - they want quick results. I will give you an instance. One day, I had a slight fever and a very bad headache, and I wrote to Him:³⁰⁹

Guru, O Guru,

My head, my head,

And the damned fever!

I am half-dead

With pain and pressure.

But blessed liver

308Correspondence I: 65-66.

309Correspondence, II: 756.

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Functions quite well.

Please send the others

to hell, Oh to hell!

He wrote back in the same vein:

Cheer up! Things might have been so much worse. Jusr think, if you had been a Spaniard in Madrid or a German communist in a concentration camp! Imagine that and then you will be quite cheerful with only a cold and headache. So,

Throw off the cold,

Damn the fever,

Be sprightly and bold

And live for ever.