Questions and Answers (1955)

14 December 1955

Mother reads from The Synthesis of Yoga, "Self-Consecration".

Sweet Mother, I haven't understood this paragraph very well.

Which paragraph?

"The powers of this world and their actual activities, it is felt, either do not belong to God at all or are for some obscure and puzzling cause, Maya or another, a dark contradiction of the divine Truth."

It is a certain attitude which produces this. He says it earlier, doesn't he? He explains it. There is an attitude in which all material things appear to be not only not the expression of the Divine but incapable of becoming that and essentially opposed to the spiritual life. And so there is only one solution—it was that of the old Yogas, you know—the total rejection of life as not being able to participate in the spiritual life at all, the rejection of material life. This is what he explains. He says that with this attitude, that's how one looks at life. He does not say that it is like that; he says that one looks at it, considers it like that; that it is the attitude of those who have completely separated life from the spirit, and who say that life is an illusion, a falsification, and that it is incapable of expressing the Divine.

That's all?

Sweet Mother, "... we can ... enrich our realisation with the booty torn from the powers that oppose us."

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Yes.

What is this booty?

All the adverse forces at work in the world.

The world as it is today is in its greater part under the influence of the adverse forces. We call them adverse because they do not want the divine life; they oppose the divine life. They want things to remain as they are, because it is their field and their power in the world. They know very well that they will lose all power and all influence the moment the Divine manifests. So they are fighting openly and completely against the Divine, and we have to tear away from them bit by bit, little by little, all the things they have conquered in the outer life. And so when it is torn away from them, it is so much gained.

On the other hand, if, as was done formerly, we try what is called clearing the ground, that is, if we let go all the things we consider as not capable of being transformed, then it is so much lost for the divine realisation.

All the realisations of Nature in the outer life, all that it has created—for example upon earth all this vegetable and animal kingdom, you see, and this ordinary human world which it has created—if we give up all this as an illusion incapable of expressing the Divine, then this is so much left in the hands of the adverse forces which try to keep it, no doubt, for their own ends. Whereas if we consider that all this may be at present deformed but that in its essence and origin not only does it belong to the Divine but is the Divine Himself, then we can work consciously, deliberately at the transformation and wrest all these things from the hostile influence which now governs them.

That's all?... Still...

Sweet Mother, what is our universal being?

Our universal being?... What it is?... I don't understand your

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question very well.

What is it? "For our entire nature and its environment, all our personal and all our universal self, are full of habits and of influences that are opposed to our spiritual rebirth..."

Our universal self is our relation with all others and all the movements of Nature.

And I have often told you, haven't I?, that the first state of your being is a state of an almost total mixture with all things from outside, and that there is almost no individualisation, that is, specialisation which makes you a different being. You are moved—a kind of form which is your physical being is moved—by all the common universal forces, vital forces or mental forces, which go through your form and put it in motion.

So that is the universal being.

And all that you have wrested from this general semi-consciousness, and have crystallised into a more or less independent being, conscious of itself and having its own qualities, all this is your individual being. And this individual being is full of all the movements of obscurity, unconsciousness, and of the limitations of ordinary life, and that's... and that's what you must gradually open to the divine influence and bring to the consciousness and understanding of things. That's what Sri Aurobindo says.

In fact, the first victory is to create an individuality. And then later, the second victory is to give this individuality to the Divine. And the third victory is that the Divine changes your individuality into a divine being.

There are three stages: the first is to become an individual; the second is to consecrate the individual, that he may surrender entirely to the Divine and be identified with Him; and the third is that the Divine takes possession of this individual and changes him into a being in His own image, that is, he too becomes divine.

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Generally, all the yogas stopped at the second. When one had succeeded in surrendering the individual and giving him without reserve to the Divine to be identified with Him, one considered that his work was finished, that all was accomplished.

But we begin there, and we say, "No, this is only a beginning. We want this Divine with whom we are identified to enter our individuality and make it into a divine personality acting in a divine world." And this is what we call transformation. But the other precedes it, must precede it. If that is not done, there is no possibility of doing the third. One can't go from the first to the third; one must pass through the second.

Mother, the third depends entirely on the Divine, whether He wills to take possession or not.

In fact everything depends entirely on the Divine. It is only the consciousness you have of it which is different. So in the third stage, obviously, one becomes conscious that it is the Divine who does everything; so it depends entirely on the Divine.

When you say this, the part of your consciousness which is still convinced of its separation and its own existence is looking at the other and saying, "Ah, good! Now I shall no longer have to do anything." But if it no longer exists, if it becomes conscious that it is the Divine, then it can't have this impression. It does the work, continues to do it, but with the true consciousness, instead of having the distorted consciousness.

(Silence)

That's all?

Sweet Mother, how can one feel the divine Presence constantly?

Why not?

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But how can one do it?

But I am asking why one should not feel it. Instead of asking the question how to feel it, I ask the question: "What do you do that you don't feel it?" There is no reason not to feel the divine Presence. Once you have felt it, even once, you should be capable of feeling it always, for it is there. It is a fact. It is only our ignorance which makes us unaware of it. But if we become conscious, why should we not always be conscious? Why forget something one has learnt? When one has had the experience, why forget it? It is simply a bad habit, that's all.

You see, there is something which is a fact, that's to say, it is. But we are unaware of it and do not know it. But after we become conscious and know it, why should we still forget it? Does it make sense? It's quite simply because we are not convinced that once one has met the Divine one can't forget Him any more. We are, on the contrary, full of stupid ideas which say, "Oh! Yes, it's very well once like that, but the rest of the time it will be as usual." So there is no reason why it may not begin again.

But if we know that... we did not know something, we were ignorant, then the moment we have the knowledge... I am sincerely asking how one can manage to forget. One might not know something, that is a fact; there are countless things one doesn't know. But the moment one knows them, the minute one has the experience, how can one manage to forget? Within yourself you have the divine Presence, you know nothing about it—for all kinds of reasons, but still the chief reason is that you are in a state of ignorance. Yet suddenly, by a clicking of circumstances, you become conscious of this divine Presence, that is, you are before a fact—it is not imagination, it is a fact, it's something which exists. Then how do you manage to forget it once you have known it?

But still this state of ignorance is in us.

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Ah! And why? Because you are convinced that it is a normal state and that one can't do otherwise.

But the moment you know that it is an absolutely abnormal state, contrary to the Truth, how does it happen that it can be repeated? It is simply because you are not convinced. It's because when you have the experience of the divine Presence it seems to you something fabulous, miraculous and extraordinary, and almost abnormal. And so... "This sublime state—how can I keep it? It is absolutely contrary to my own existence." But this indeed is the stupidity. For this sublime state is the natural state, and it's what you constantly are that is not natural but a falsification, a deformation—you see, a state... which is not normal.

But to have the knowledge and live in the Truth—this indeed is the normal state. Then, how does it happen that once you have had it... it is over, the abnormal state disappears, you become normal and live in the Truth. Once one is in the Truth, how does one manage to come out of it again?

Quite simply it's that you have not entered totally into the Truth, and only one part of yourself has had the experience and the others don't yet have it; and then you don't remain in this part of yourself which had the experience and begin to live in other parts which do not have it yet; and all these parts must have this experience one after another.

This is the reply to my question, this is what you should have told me: why, it is because we are not made of a single piece and the piece which had the experience is not the only one in us and is not always there, it is replaced by all kinds of other pieces which have not yet had the experience and must have it. That's why.

But truly speaking, it is not inevitable. Because even if the part which had the experience and knows is no longer right in front and master of the consciousness, if it is replaced by another part which is still in the ignorance, that's no reason for forgetting the other, for that other part is also yourself, and remains yourself, and is there. Why forget it? Why, when the

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obscure, unconscious and ignorant part comes up, why not put it immediately face to face with the other—like this—so that the other may show it that it is in the ignorance? This everybody can do. It's only a question of wanting it. We are not obliged to fall back into error, we are not obliged to fall back into obscurity, ignorance and stupidity.

It is because something in us, through cowardice or defeatism, accepts this. If one did not accept it, it wouldn't happen.

Even when everything seems to be suddenly darkened, the flame and the Light are always there. And if one doesn't forget them, one has only to put in front of them the part which is dark; there will perhaps be a battle, there will perhaps be a little difficulty, but it will be something quite transitory; never will you lose your footing.

That is why it is said—and it is something true—that to sin through ignorance may have fatal consequences, because when one makes mistakes, well, these mistakes have results, that's obvious, and usually external and material results; but that's no great harm, I have already told you this several times. But when one knows what is true, when one has seen and had the experience of the Truth, to accept the sin again, that is, fall back again into ignorance and obscurity—this is indeed an infinitely more serious mistake. It begins to belong to the domain of ill-will. In any case, it is a sign of slackness and weakness. It means that the will is weak.

So your question is put the other way round. Instead of asking yourself how to keep it, you must ask yourself: how does one not keep it? Not having it, is a state which everybody is in before the moment of knowing; not knowing—one is in that state before knowing. But once one knows one cannot forget. And if one forgets, it means that there is something which consents to the forgetting, it means there is an assent somewhere; otherwise one would not forget.

(Silence)

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That's all?...

That's all, nothing more?

No more questions anywhere?

You want to meditate? Yes?

(Meditation)

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