Questions and Answers (1955)

14 September 1955

Mother reads The Great Secret: The Statesman

[The Great Secret: A drama arranged and partly written by Mother, in six monologues and a conclusion, staging six of the most famous men of the world and an Unknown Man in a life-boat in which they have taken refuge after the ship which was taking them to a World Conference on Human Progress capsized on the high seas.]

On Education, CWM, Vol. 12, pp. 471-96

Sweet Mother, what should be the attitude of a true politician?

But it's just the attitude of a true politician which I have given here. It's the ideal politician, my child. One can't make a better one. It is the circumstances, he says that himself: "a greater force than mine..." it's the way the world is organised; he started with the best intentions, he tried his very best, he could do nothing, because one can't do anything in the present circumstances and with politics as it is practised at present. Usually people are not frank enough to say what I have made him say. I have made him speak the truth and this proves that he is extremely frank; otherwise, usually they cover all their misdeeds with beautiful words, but the misdeeds are there all the same. The world is organised in such a way that one can't be otherwise. If one were a man who did not accept any kind of compromise, one could not remain in politics; one would quite simply be pushed out by the very force of things. There will be a time when all this will change, but not yet. Politics is perhaps the last thing which will change. There are many others which must change before. It is certainly one of the most recalcitrant things.

There are two things which it is very difficult to change: finance and politics; the field of money and the field of government are the two points where man is weakest and most attached to falsehood. So, probably, transformation will come there last

Page 297

of all. One can hope for a social transformation, an economic transformation, a transformation of education; one can hope for all this long before the transformation of politics and of finance. I wrote this precisely to show people what the real state of the world is, and to give an indication of the way to get out of it. But when we are at the point of coming out, you will see that it is not so easy. Perhaps the first thing that will be transformed will be the scientific world, it is possible; because there a very great sincerity is required and a very persevering effort, and these already are qualities which open for you the door to a higher life... But we shall come to this next time... no, not next time, after two lessons.

Here we are, my children. No other questions? Nobody has anything to say?

Sweet Mother, the politician in the world today who is on the level of the one in the drama, one who is trying to do his best, isn't he guided by the Divine? Will he find the means of...

He has not said that he was religious at all. He hasn't told us that. He hasn't said that it was for spiritual or religious reasons that he was trying to do this.

Note that they are all going to a congress on human progress, they are not going to a religious conference at all. In fact your question makes no sense, because there is nothing in the universe which is not made by the Divine, so from that point of view the question makes no sense. Consciously, in himself, he should be a religious man for him to do something for religious reasons. It is not mentioned, and deliberately not mentioned, so as not to introduce another factor in the problem. He is not doing this at all as a service to the Divine. He is doing it because he has humanitarian ideas and is trying to improve the human situation upon earth, that's all. All of them, by the way, all are in the same condition.

Page 298

Mother, as during the war, the last war, there were great statesmen who...

But this is taken almost exactly after one of them, a famous figure.

But they became the Divine's instruments during the war!

All, all are the Divine's instruments, if you want to look at it in a certain way. No, they were not at all consciously the Divine's instruments; not conscious at all, at all, at all. They used to mouth big religious words. I took them away because they were insincerities and I wanted to make my fellow as sincere as possible, and their big religious words were absolutely insincere, it was blackmail; the proof is that they forgot them all immediately as soon as they were victorious.

Mother, how did he know at the end that he had not found the truth if he had not been open...

What! How did he...?

(Pavitra) How did he know that he had not found the truth... if he had not been open to something higher?

But who knew it, my man or the other...

(Pavitra) The moment he is conscious that there is something which he has not found, it means that he was open to something else.

Yes, naturally, all goodwill is open to a deeper consciousness. That goes without saying. I tell you, I have taken very exceptional persons who are ready to understand, otherwise it could

Page 299

not be done. I have made them better than they really are, because all had something else behind their aspiration; they are not aware of it, but these are people on the point of understanding and it is in this way, you see, that I could organise the thing; it is not an exact copy of nature, it is something arranged to prove something—that's all—as always in literature.

Mother, this gives us the hope that in the world today and especially in India, there are...

Gives the hope! I think that it's not this that gives the hope; if one had before oneself only the model of those who exist in the world, there wouldn't be much hope.

Mother, in the present world politics is divided into two big camps, that of America and that of Russia. How will the reconciliation come?

Oh! It is very easy. It's simply because they don't at all understand that it is very easy that I say that it is the last thing that will happen. These things are only appearances and superficial ideas and interests—interests! not even true interests: ideas which they have about their interests. But if the true solution were found... not if it were found—perhaps it is found—if the true economic solution were applied, the very basis of their problems would collapse, there would remain only the political attitude which is very, very superficial. It is very shallow, it has no depth, it is above all just words, very hollow words; it sounds very loud because it is hollow, they are big words. But, you see, the only fairly true support of their attitude lies in the two things I have spoken about: a financial support and an economic support. Well, if the economic problem were solved, that is, if the solution were applied, the major part of the support of these political differences would disappear. It is based almost exclusively on an opposite way

Page 300

of looking at the problems of life and the solution of these problems: these think that it is like this, the others think that it is like that. I am speaking of the most sincere ones, not of those who have constructed things out of nothing at all, precisely, as I said, to make a lot of noise and have a lot of influence. But if we go to the heart of the question, there isn't so much difference.

There are many people—I am speaking of people, not of individuals but governments—who pretend that they are not communists and have a way of acting that's absolutely communistic, still more drastic than the communists'. Therefore all this is a matter of words. One puts words as one puts a certain cloak on the things one does, it changes just the appearance, but the inside is not very different. Besides, one thing is quite simple, that the whole of mankind follows an evolution, an evolutionary curve, and that there are ages, certain ages in which there is a certain experience which becomes almost universal, that is, terrestrial, entirely terrestrial, but indeed under different names, labels, words; it is nearly the same experience which continues. So there are the old ones which are in the course of disappearing and yet cling on, which yet change the appearance and the substance of certain new things. But it's only like the tail of something. The whole new movement is going towards an experience which becomes as common as possible, because it is useful only if it is common. If it is localised, it is like a mushroom, it gives no fruit for the general human consciousness. The great human experiences have to be gone through, more or less thoroughly, by the whole of mankind, and it is done in this way. It is only man's thoughts which fix other words, other forms, other reasons, other justifications, other legitimisations on what they do; but when one comes to the fact it is very similar. Only, in order to do that, particularly, it is necessary to see beyond the simple appearances.

During the war between Germany and England it was

Page 301

known on which side the Divine was, the divine Force which was fighting against the asuric forces...

Known to whom?

Here.

Ah, of course!

In present-day politics can we say in which camp...

Unfortunately, things become completely clear-cut in this way—to the extent that one can say these are for and these against—only when there is that frightful materialisation of a war, because at that moment it is obvious that the victory of one side is preferable to the victory of the other, not that these are better than the others—this is understood, that from the divine point of view all are equal in worth, it's the same thing—but because the consequences of the victory are such that the victory of one side is better than that of another. But this is when the thing becomes absolutely brutal, a reciprocal extermination. Otherwise, to tell the real truth, the divine Force acts for its work everywhere, in men's errors as in their goodwill, through ill-will as through favourable things. There is nothing that's not mixed; nowhere is there something which could be said to be truly a pure instrument of the Divine, and nowhere is there an absolute impossibility of the Divine's using a man or action to go forward on the path. So, as long as things are uncertain, the Divine works everywhere almost equally. If men go in for such a great madness, then it is different. But it is truly a "great madness", in the sense that it precipitates a whole mass of individuals and wills into an activity which leads straight to destruction—their own destruction. I am not speaking of bombs and the destruction of a city or a people, I am speaking of destruction as it is spoken about in the Gita, you see, when it

Page 302

is said that the Asura goes to his own destruction. That's what happens, and this is a very great misfortune, because it is always better to be able to save, illumine, transform, than to have to destroy brutally. And it is this terrible choice of the war which is its true horror; it's that it materialises the conflict so brutally and totally that some elements which could have been saved during peace are, because of war, necessarily destroyed—and not only men and things but forces, the conscience of beings.

Has India a special role to play in present-day politics?

Politics! I told you at the very beginning that politics is something completely... unconverted. Then how can there be a true political role?

India has a role to fulfil in the world. But this is something ideal and one that requires a conversion which... in any case, it has not yet taken place, as far as I know. From the superficial, external point of view she could play her part if she were sincere. That's all that I can say. But it is also necessary to have the precise knowledge.

(Long silence)

These things cannot be spoken about.

When this Statesman finds the truth, the problems won't be the same, will they?

What? My Statesman! All must find the truth. Then naturally when they have all found the truth, things will be different. So!... We are going to ponder over this problem!

Page 303