Talks by Nirodbaran

20 August 1969

Well, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, I'll congratulate you on having a very good Darshan! I'm sure the Lord blessed

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you with both hands. And you have a special claim to His blessings because you have been so much interested in this class where we are supposed to be talking about His life, though the life of the disciple is taking a greater part. And since I've been telling now and then about my experiences, it would be justice if I demand from you some of your own experiences in return, like friends. Otherwise it will be all one-sided indeed. [Some of the listeners narrate stories of similar experiences.]

... I hope all of you can hear me? Yes, soon after the Darshan, I don't remember on which day, one of our young friends asked me about an experience I'd had and if I would mind telling all of you about it. "Well," I said, "not very much, but it all depends on my mood." Then the friend wished that the mood would prevail. As a matter of fact, I didn't know what to say. But the problem was solved for me. Now I'm going to tell you - whether you enjoy it or not, that's up to you.

It is something that happened just yesterday. After having a fairly good lunch in the company of a sweet lady, I was having a good nap in the company of my old accustomed friend - the easy chair. I was rolling about in the chair. I was somewhat tired because for two days I'd had no sleep either at noon or at night. So my bones were creaking, my muscles were muttering. I resolved to have a jolly good rest at any cost, even if the Voice called. "Hmmm!" I'd planned I would say, as if I would be able to resist the Voice if it came! Well, anyhow, I was relaxing. The fragrance of the incense from the Samadhi, carrying the blessings of the Lord, wafted sweetly towards me slowly, and winds were coming to me from the fields of sleep, through the Service Tree.¹⁵⁶ As a result, a deep sleep came upon me. Then something happened, after how long I don't remember. I saw an old man, not very prepossessing, but not an ordinary old man that we see in the Ashram or anywhere else. This old man seemed rather unusual. I don't know how, but he did not seem to be an earthly old man: he was quite strong, quite dignified, very simple. He was talking to me,

156 The tree above the Samadhi, given the spiritual name of 'Service Tree' by the Mother.

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narrating a story. Two of us were there listening; he took a very long time, the story was very interesting. When it finished, I asked the other fellow, "Have you taken down notes ?" He said, "Yes." "Let me see." He showed me. "So what have you done ? You have left out the most important point: the illustration." Then I addressed the old man and said, "Look at this fellow, he has taken down everything else, but left out the most important part of it, the illustration, which gives life, doesn't it?" By the way, that very morning, I was telling my students, as I always do, that whatever you write, you must give illustrations. I don't know whether it was the echo of what I had been saying in the morning. However... this is what happened. I remember nothing about it and it was a long talk or a long story. That's all I know. I had the feeling - of course, it may be my imagination - that the old man was none other than Sri Aurobindo. Why did He appear as an old man? That He alone knows! Sometimes God comes to you in many guises and disguises. All of you know that, don't you?

I remember, a long, long time ago, when I'd started, shall I say, my yoga - it may be too grandiloquent to say that. I saw in a dream, or a vision, if you like, a beggarly woman coming to me with a beggarly boy in her lap, an ungainly, dark chap. I wrote to Sri Aurobindo, "What is this? Who is this beggarly woman with a child in her lap?" And I was surprised to hear that it was the Mother. And who was the child? "It was your psychic being!" (Laughter) "She came to put you in contact with your psychic being." And I was not very much delighted by the psychic being! (Laughter) Anyhow, truth is truth.

So that's how they appear and I am sure many of you have had such experiences. Then there the talk ended and I went into a deep sleep, for how long I don't know. Something else followed, which has no connection at all with what I had seen and heard. A dream in which I saw, of all persons, Jayantilal, preparing tea in my room. (Laughter) It was not he who was making the tea but somebody else was preparing it for him; all these are vivid details, mind you, my friends - you may call them imagination, maybe something like Wilde's ? - but it is not so. It is a dream, but a reality on another plane. So I saw actually the

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water boiling furiously. I was wondering why Jayantilal's tea is being made in my room? Well, I went to the next room, you know, the last hall. There I saw something else being prepared in a somewhat slovenly fashion: water had been spilt all over the floor and something had caught fire. The carpets were burning, there was smoke and I took all the trouble to stamp out the fire and smoke. Then suddenly my eyes opened and I saw it was two o'clock! (Laughter) From half past twelve till two o'clock, this thing had gone on. So I said most reluctantly, "I have to get up, time for work." So, two o'clock!

I was telling some friends that this is the new technique now that the Divine has adopted with me. Not using His voice, but this curious way of giving me an experience in my sleep and shaking me up. The other day I saw that somebody had entered my room; I don't know what I was doing, perhaps sleeping, or maybe just unwilling to get up. But he took hold of my hand and began to pull me violently as if he'd pull me through the window and throw me on the ground. I was resisting. It was a veritable tug-of-war. My eyes opened, and it was half past one in the morning! And some such unpleasant dreams come round about half past one or half past two and bother me, trouble me. I cannot but do what has been asked for me to do. What do you say? So this is the play going on with my poor soul.

I'm sorry I used the expression 'poor soul'. Please don't report it to the Mother, She does not like this expression, 'poor soul'. I understand that somebody once inadvertently said, in the Mother's presence, "My poor soul." "What!" She thundered. "Poor soul? The soul is never poor! Never use that expression." This is typical of the Mother. If I say 'poor soul' to Sri Aurobindo, He would probably laugh it away. (Laughter) The Mother and Sri Aurobindo, they are two personalities, with unity in consciousness but difference in external manner. (Laughter) One tolerates a joke, the other doesn't. And particularly jokes of this kind with the soul, with the Divine, with the Supermind. You could very well say to Sri Aurobindo: the Supramental's tail is dangling. (Laughter) He would enjoy it, Mother would not. That is why whenever Mother used to come to Sri Aurobindo's room, all of

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us would stiffen up and stand at attention like policemen! Terrible! (Laughter)

So you see this experience of the talk or all these things were given to me, I don't know for what. I was mulling it over in my mind about what to talk to you, turning over in my easy chair. Really, it has now become a tough job to prepare for this famous lecture. To say something that'll entertain you and instruct you at the same time is a tough job, my friends. My only reliance is on His famous verse: "All can be done if the God-touch is there."¹⁵⁷ Don't worry, if the Lord wills, it'll be done. I must gratefully admit that so far the 'touch' has not failed me and the God-touch has come this time too; He was compassionate to me and to you all. But please understand that this is not imagination at all. I may have fooled you a bit in the past, but this is no fooling here (Laughter); this is true, it was an actual conversation that took place, though I didn't know or remember anything about it in my waking consciousness.

Such things are possible and such things have happened. I told you long, long ago, that when Sri Aurobindo was in jail, He used to be visited by Vivekananda. You remember, it occurred consecutively for about fifteen days, mind you. Vivekananda came to meet with a definite purpose, gave Him instructions about the Supermind and would not leave Him (I am quoting His very words) till Sri Aurobindo had grasped everything that Vivekananda was saying. Just as we do with some persons: we insist on explaining something so that it enters into their heads before we leave them. That was what Vivekananda did for fifteen days, my friends. He explained everything about the Supermind in great detail: this is that, this is that, etc. So there is clear evidence that such things do happen and fresh evidence is here in this Bulletin¹⁵⁸ of 15 August 1969; all of you must have read it, I'm sure. The Bulletin article describes how Mother had a three-hour talk with Sri Aurobindo on Auroville. A very interesting talk: She said She was

157SABCL,28:3.

158The Bulletin of the Sri Aurobindo International Centre of Education is a quarterly that carries news of the Ashram, the School and other items.

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giving Him all the information about Auroville. So why shouldn't you believe poor Nirod-da having a talk like this? [Reading from Bulletin of SAICE of 15 August 1969, 83-85]

May 31, 1969

The night before yesterday, I spent more than three hours with Sri Aurobindo and I was showing him all that was about to come down for Auroville. It was quite interesting. Here were games, there was art, there was even cooking! But all that was very symbolic. And I was explaining to him as though on a table, in front of a vast landscape. I was explaining to him the principle on which physical exercises and games were going to be organised. It was very clear, very precise, I was giving as though a demonstration, and I was showing on a smaller scale, a miniature representation of what was going to be done. I was moving people and things (gesture, as though on a chess-board). But it was very interesting, and he too was very much interested: he was laying down the broad laws of organization (I do not know how to explain). There was art and it was so beautiful, it was quite good. And how to make the houses pleasant and pretty, upon what principle of construction. And then even the kitchen, it was so amusing, everyone has brought forward his invention ... This went on for three hours - three hours of night, it was enormous! Very interesting.

Interviewer: Yet, conditions upon earth seem to be very far from all that...

Mother: (After some hesitation) No ... It was just there, it did not seem to be foreign to earth. It was a harmony. A conscious harmony behind the things: a conscious harmony behind the physical exercises and the games: a conscious harmony behind the decoration, the art; a conscious harmony behind food ...

Interviewer: I mean that all this seems to be at the antipodes of what is there now upon earth.

Mother: Not...

Interviewer: No?

Mother: I saw X ... today and I was telling him that the whole organisation in respect of art and sports and food and all others were ready in the subtle physical - ready to come down and take body - and I told him: "What is needed is just a handful of earth

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(gesture indicating the hollow of the palm), a handful of earth where one could grow the plant... One must find a handful of earth to let it grow..."

The only difference in my case is this - that I don't remember at all the conversation that I am supposed to have had with Sri Aurobindo in the subtle physical. But I believe that, one day, things will improve, I'll be able to recount to you, if God permits, verbatim, some conversation I had with Him, or you'll be able to delight us by telling us of your own experiences. That is the day I am waiting for.

Now with this problem in my mind, I was going up to my bureau. I was wondering what I could talk about in this class. I had two or three things on hand: one, I had to complete a half-finished article for some paper; two, I had to feed you Glaxo babies¹⁵⁹ with some nourishing food; third, some other articles were to be completed. So I wanted to find out what this talk would be about. I couldn't find any answer. I said to myself, perhaps there is no single purpose in God's work. God fulfils many purposes in one action. As we say in Bengali: 'ek dhile du pakkhi mare',¹⁶⁰ so who knows what purpose He had - perhaps multiple purposes - let us see and it might reveal itself.

So I was wondering about the subject of this talk. I decided to wait and see. I had started with my half-finished article, and the words began to flow through my pen, the thoughts began to flow through my head, and the article was finished in no time. God knows whether it was bad or good, but it was finished, which had never been achieved before. For my earlier articles, I have had to take a lot of trouble, do a lot of thinking and a lot of cutting, a lot of crossing out. So, I thought, here is one purpose. The second purpose would be your enjoyment of the talk. I hope you've enjoyed the experience I had. Did you enjoy the talk? Now perhaps some of you will be saying or writing: "That's all right, sir, but what about your experience of the Darshan? About that experience you have not spoken as yet. You have kept us hanging."

159Glaxo was a company that made milk powder for babies - the expression implies jokingly that Nirod-da has to find material to spoon-feed his students with, for each of these talks.

160To kill two birds with one stone.

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It is quite true. Let us come back then to the mainstream of our talk, as they say in French, 'Retournons a nos moutons.¹⁶¹

As I was saying, the friend requested me to tell you something. I didn't know what to do, as I said; I was thinking like Hamlet: to be or not to be, to say or not to say; but since the friend was young and a former student of mine, and said it in a very mellow, soft, sweet voice, tender-heartedly, my soft heart couldn't disappoint her laughter; but the experience was so small and meagre that I feel as if I am making much ado about nothing. It is a mighty little drop; after you've heard, you'll see for yourselves. But since you've asked for it, I'm obliged to put it before you. Well, it is like this: I was trying to prepare in my own way, as all of you do, for the Darshan occasion. I ate all right, slept all right, did my work all right, though there was much distraction -what from ballet dance, what from music in the Playground, etc., etc. All these occasions disturb you a bit, but I turned a deaf ear to all these because they say a great occasion needs a great preparation. I don't know whether my preparation was great or small, I tried in my small way to prepare myself well.

The Darshan day arrived. From the morning, we were expecting something to happen, but nothing happened. Meditation came, passed, except that some sort of quietude was felt, that's all. Then I was a little depressed. What's all this ? There was so much expectation, but all failed, no grace, no compassion. Prayer goes unanswered. All this was going on and then the time for the Darshan arrived and I am sure what I felt all of you felt too. Again, with an air of expectancy, I waited for the Mother to come. She came, looked at us for quite a long time. As you know, we stand on Kamala's terrace¹⁶² because we do not like to be jostled about in the crowd. So there we were standing, and you know perhaps that Mother looks first on that side. God knows why! Mother's intention is very difficult to discern. Sometimes She looks for half a second, sometimes one minute, sometimes two minutes; some of us there do guess, but it is only a guess. Perhaps you saw, those

161Let us come back to our sheep.

162The south-east corner of the Ashram Building, on the first floor.

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who were near, that Pranab came twice and looked at our side. Well! These are passing instances. Anyhow, Mother came, and She looked at us. We were very glad indeed to see the Divine, but nothing unusual happened. We were waiting and waiting, when She came back after seeing all of you and distributing Her gracious blessings to all of you children. When she came back and stood there, something I saw, something which I had never seen till now. What was it ? I saw that Her face had become young. A youngish face like one of yours. There was no crease, there was no wrinkle, there was no sign of old age on Her face. She was very young indeed - an unearthly tinge was there. The colour was something mellow, something sweet, not at all earthly. I can't describe it. She was human, yet not human - She had a beauty which you don't find in this world of ours; it was not the dazzling beauty of a Helen or a passionately beautiful Mona Lisa. It was the calm, quiet beauty of a Goddess. And Her face was very young indeed. This is what I saw and it was for the first time. So the silent tears that I had shed were wiped away. I was happy, but I could not retain that experience. It comes now and then, and passes, as all experiences do. It takes time for these experiences to stay permanently in one's consciousness. So this was the unique gift I had for the first time in the Darshan.

Then, in this context, I am reminded of a vision the Mother had long, long ago, I don't know whether it was after Sri Aurobindo's passing or before. It was most probably after His passing away. She spoke to me about this vision. She said that She saw Herself; She saw that She had become a young woman of about fifteen or sixteen, about that age, very young and exquisitely beautiful, naturally, with flowing hair and wearing a robe. Sri Aurobindo was also with Her, He had also become a young man, near about Her age. They were somewhere, She said, the exact place was not clearly indicated, sitting somewhere in an open field, somewhere near Hyderabad; I don't know why Hyderabad. It may be because at that time many Hyderabadis were coming for Darshan. So somewhere near Hyderabad, they were sitting in an open field. Their house was nearby and they were talking with each other.

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Some of the Ashram sadhaks, inmates, were passing that way, looking at them strangely, in a queer fashion, as if asking: "Who are these people? Where have they come from?" They could not recognise them. They had changed so much that even the Ashram sadhaks, the old ones, could not recognise them at all. Then Mother said, "Look at these people, they don't know us, they don't recognise us."

But here¹⁶³ the resemblance was there, one could make out that this was Mother's face. The form and the shape were still there, but the beauty was unearthly. Before this, many people have told me about their spiritual experiences. They said that Mother is becoming young, very young, and I said, "All right, all right," but something in me was not convinced; not that I did not believe, but I was waiting for a personal experience. So once for all, the doubt, the disbelief vanished. I read out a letter the other day, where Sri Aurobindo was asking, "Do you see now ?" I am confirmed now in that belief.

And what is going to happen? What does the future hold for us ? If you have read this Bulletin, you ought to be able to find out. Perhaps I had a fore-glimpse of that fulfilment. I think it is Satprem who asks the question: "How is the world problem going to be solved? How will the whole world be convinced?" And he himself imagines that only a glorious body of the divine would be able to convince the world. Nothing short of that. Mother said, "Yes, it is so." The old sadhaks do remember that the Mother gave us a message long, long ago: "It is not the crucified body of Christ, but a glorious body that will save the world" - not the crucified body of Christ, but a glorious body or a glorified body which everybody will see and be convinced that there is such a thing as a divinity, there is such a thing as divinisation of the body, there is such a thing as a conquest of death; in other words, a supramental body. And I believe I had a fore-glimpse of that in this un-aging youth and beauty of the Divine Mother that I had been graciously given to see. And along with this, if the Lord descended with His supramental body, then what 'moja'!¹⁶⁴ (Laughter) Let me

163In the Darshan vision witnessed by Nirod-da.

164Fun, in Bengali.

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read out the passage from here to those of you who have not read it and to others who have read it too. It's wonderful! [Reading from Bulletin of SAICE, August 1969, 99-100]

May31,1969

S: ... I always have the feeling that the only solution is that you should have a glorious body, visible to everyone, then all could come and see - come and see the Divine, how it is!

Mother: (Laughing). That would be very convenient indeed!

S: It would be such an upsetting of all their notions ...

Mother: Yes, certainly! It would be so convenient. Would it be like that? ... As to that, surely, I am in full agreement with you! And I would be very glad if it were anyone, does not matter who, I have not the least desire that it should be myself.

S: Come and see the Divine, how it is!

Mother: Yes, how it is! (Mother remains gazing for a long time).

June 4, 1969

Mother: I looked into the matter a great deal, after you had left me last time, the whole day ... There is some sense in that being a wonderful solution (the glorious body). When you said it, something became concrete all of a sudden. But there was no personal sense in that... The body has no ambition or desire whatsoever or even the aspiration to become that (the glorious body), but there was only a kind of delight in the possibility of that being done; it if were done, it matters not who or where or how: only if it were done. And I looked at it with very very close attention: not for a moment did it have the idea it must be this (Mother pinches Her skin with Her fingers), you understand? It was: let there be this incarnation, this manifestation - choosing one person or another, one place or another, no, nothing of that kind existed: the thing by itself was the wonderful solution. That's all.

... But what has become its business - in such an intense way that it cannot be expressed - is "Thou, Thou, Thou, Thou ..." no word can translate it; the Divine, to use one word. It is all, it is for all - to eat the Divine; to sleep the Divine; to suffer the Divine ... so on (Mother points both hands upward). With a kind of stability, immobility.

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