Mother’s Agenda 1967

September 30, 1967

Do you know about the Pope's conversion?

The Pope's conversion! No!

I was very happy because it proved to me that our conversations hadn't been in vain. I was wondering if he was conscious; I don't know if he was conscious mentally, but in any case it's interesting, you can read (Mother holds out a newspaper cutting to Satprem).

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Vatican City, September 26

The Pope, in an article published here last night, has said his journey to India in 1964 was "the revelation of an unknown world."
The Osservatore Romano published in an article excerpts from a forthcoming book of conversations with the Pope by a lifelong friend, the French philosopher and academician, Jean Guitton.
"I saw, as is said in the Apocalypse, a limitless crowd, a multitude, an enormous welcome. In those thousands of faces I read, stronger than curiosity, a kind of indescribable sympathy," the Pope said.
"India is a spiritual country. It has in its nature a sense of the 'Christian virtues'....

"Christians," he sees everything through his Christian word, but never mind.

"If there is any country in which the Beatitudes of the Sermon on the Mount could ever become a reality for the mass of the country, that country is India," Pope Paul added....

Can you imagine!

"What is nearer to the souls of Indians than poverty of spirit, sweetness, peace, mercy, and pureness of heart?" he asked.
"While the leaders of the West are politicians, in the land of India they are mystics and sages....

Yes.

"Life runs in contemplation. People speak in a low voice. Their movements are slow and liturgical. The country is 'born for the spirit'," the Pope said.

All the same, it means he is receptive.

And it explains the manner in which he received P. when he went there. P. (an Indian disciple), as you know, paid him a visit; he was taken there by an Italian who had come here (a very nice boy who showed him around Italy and took him to the Pope). The Pope gave

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him a private audience, and after talking to him, asking questions, replying (it was a whole conversation), he said to P. with a smile, "And now what are you going to give me?" (They spoke in French.) Then P. said, "I have only one thing, which I always keep with me and is infinitely precious to me, but I will give it to you," and he gave him Prayers and Meditations. And the Pope answered, "I am going to read them."

So it all fits together.

It's interesting.

Oh, yesterday I saw the photo of a man, a German who speaks German, but it's not clear whether he was born in Germany or in America. He must be around forty or forty-five, and for many years ... The story goes like this: his parents, both father and mother, were thorough non-believers, and when he was born (or anyway the day after his birth), there was a horizontal column of light on his head, visible to the naked eye. Naturally, the parents were troubled. But the interesting thing is that it's going on. That man (I saw the photos) held a meeting in America of four thousand people (I saw the photo, four thousand people!) and while he was talking there was that column of light, it could be seen in the photograph. It was about as thick as an arm and this long (about twenty centimetres). And he feels he is "spoken to," that something like the supreme Divinity speaks to him, and that he has been told to proclaim the coming of the second Christ!... Well ... He proclaims and gives people a kind of baptism. I saw his photo and ... it's very strange, he has a strong, powerful face, but a nasty mouth (blade-like gesture), tight-lipped, pinched.

And recently I saw two photos of the heads of the Rosicrucian movement in Holland (or Belgium, I forget), the Rosicrucian movement in Europe—exactly the same nasty, hard, inexorable mouth. Odd.

Right in the beginning, you told me the same thing about the Pope.

Yes, he has the same expression; but he has a less nasty mouth, though with something inexorable.

But what is it?... And all those people, who are Christians, have it.

Anyway, about that German, it's quite obviously a vital phenomenon. To be visible to the naked eye, it can only be a vital light. And he has innumerable disciples. He baptizes them for the second coming of Christ.... It seems (I am not sure because it was written in

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German and only extracts were translated to me), but he doesn't at all seem to have a philosophical mind or conceptions: it's only a kind of action to bring people into contact with that light. I heard about him from a German woman who is here (her mother is in Germany and she is a disciple of that man and she sent her the book). But her mother is a bit frightened.

There is something inexorable—why? I don't understand. Because Christ came, on the contrary, to speak of brotherhood, goodness, charity, compassion.... Yet this expression has something inexorable—yes, there is no other word: thin-lipped and the mouth in a straight line like this (same blade-like gesture). It gives the appearance of a terrible nastiness, something inexorable (which found expression in the Inquisition, tortures and so on). Why is it there?... But that German, for instance, the light was there when he was a baby, the day after his birth—he didn't have an inexorable mouth at that time!

But the difficulty with all those people—the Pope, this German, those Rosicrucians—is that basically they only think in terms of a Church....

Of course!

In terms of a Church and of power over people to keep them shut in their construction.

Yes, exactly.

That's the difficulty.

Exactly. That German, for instance (I am not sure because I haven't read the whole thing), gives baptism—he baptizes, which means putting one's hand on the person and keeping him under it (gesture over a bowing head).

There is also a Korean, have you seen his photo? ... I saw his photo, he is a hefty fellow and must be the same age, between thirty and forty. A Korean who, for his part, bluntly says that he is, not the reincarnation of Christ (I don't think he is Christian), but the "new Avatar" (if he knew the Indian tradition, he would say "Kalki"¹). And it seems he has hundreds of thousands of disciples! I saw his photo ... I saw him "Korean," you understand, that is, not universal.

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But it means things are moving everywhere—moving more and more.

But this, a Pope saying this, is new. It's new.

And I had that mental contact with him perhaps just three weeks before he came to India (of course his thought was turned to India). We had a very interesting conversation, and all I said came to: "Spirituality is much vaster than a Church, and as long as you limit spiritual realization to a Church or a religion, you will be in complete Falsehood." He listened. And when he came to India, that's what he said!

But I told you he was tormented by something. When he left, when it was time for me to get up and take leave of each other, he looked at me with a sort of anxiety in his eyes, and he said to me, "What will you say to your disciples about our meeting?" I smiled and said, "I will tell them that we were united in the love ..." (not "identical" or "common," I forget the words) "for the supreme Lord." Then his face relaxed and he left.... "We were united in the same ..." It wasn't the "same" it was ... I don't know, something expressing that both of us had been united in "the love for the Supreme Lord." And I said it like that, with a smile, which means it was Sri Aurobindo who spoke with his sense of humour.... His face relaxed and he left.

(After a long meditation, Mother, still deep within and half in trance, starts speaking:)

Did you feel anything special?... Because the last two or three days, but especially last night and this morning, it was the body learning, the cells have learnt ... I told you that the work till now has been the change—the transfer—from acting out of habit and reaction to letting the divine Consciousness act. And this morning, for a part of the night and the whole morning until people started coming, with every action, every movement, every gesture, all the tiny little things (when, for instance, a problem is put by someone or a decision has to be taken, since years the answer comes from above), but now with all material movements, also the inner movements, with the attitude of the body, the attitude of the cells, the absolutely material consciousness, with everything, everything—the old method was gone.

It began with the perception of the remaining difference between how things were and how they should be, then that perception disappeared and there only remained "that".... Something (how can

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I explain?) ... The English word smooth is the most expressive; everything is done smoothly, everything without exception: bathing, brushing one's teeth, washing one's face, everything (eating, since long has been worked on in order for it to be done in the true way). It always begins with this sort of (Mother opens her hands) surrender (I don't know the right word, it's neither abdication nor offering but between the two; I don't know, there is no French word for it), the surrender of the WAY in which we do things: not of the thing in itself, which is quite unimportant (in that state there is no "big" and "small," no "important" and "unimportant"). And it's something so ... (even gesture) uniform in its multiplicity, there is nothing that clashes or grates or causes difficulties anymore or ... (all those words express things so crudely): it's something that moves forward, on and on in a movement so ... (same even gesture) the nearest word is smooth, that is, without resistance. I don't know. And it's not an intensity of delight, it's not that: that also is so even, so regular (same even gesture), but not uniform: it's innumerable. And EVERYTHING is like that (same gesture), in one same ... rhythm (the word "rhythm" is violent). It's not uniformity, but something so even, and which feels so sweet, you know, and with a TREMENDOUS power in the smallest things.

For several days there was (I told you the other day) the vision of cruelty in human beings, and a very active work to make it disappear from the manifestation. That's part of the general work, with such a concrete power (Mother clenches her fist) for it to disappear. It began with visions of horrors (almost memories), which were seen—more than seen, you understand: things that aroused that reprobation, horror.... Then it organizes itself in its totality and the whole thing was taken up like that (Mother opens her arms), all those movements in time (time and space merge into something ... an immensity—immensity, infinitude, and, I might say, "multiplicity," but the words are poor), anyway it was a totality taken up in the consciousness—a totality of ways of being and vibrations—and as if presented to the Supreme Consciousness so it may be transformed, so it may cease to exist.

That's how it began.

Then, once that was done, it was as if concretized, concentrated on this little point of a body, so that, there too, certain things, certain vibrations of unconsciousness can no longer exist. And today the outcome was that transfer, which was constant—constant, unadulterated for about four hours. Afterwards ... It's mostly the invasion of outside things that cuts off the experience. Yet there is no reproval of that invasion; the transformation—the TRANSFER—must continue

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AMID the contact with all that comes. Then it will be fine.

There are two things. There is all this crowd I see constantly, and since long (a "long" time, that is in human terms), as soon as I am there, as soon as the body is there to see the people, it becomes no more than a channel, a kind of ... (gesture showing the Force flowing down through Mother to the people), for the Consciousness of the Lord to flow through it and go. There isn't even, or there is as little need to receive as possible: it's an Action like this (same gesture through Mother), the Force passing through. And when it happens in that room over there which is reserved exclusively for seeing people, the room fills with the Presence, and it's as if that Presence opened its arms to receive people, took them, enveloped them, and then let them go out.

But as regards the things personal to this body, like all that has to do with bathing, food, all that now no longer takes place in the same way. I don't know how to explain ... Here, it's an activity; over there, it's simply like that, a Presence. Here, it's an activity: you have to fill a glass with water, put toothpaste, brush your teeth—they are all activities. And, well ... there are no more memories, no more habits; things aren't done because you learned to do them that way: they are done spontaneously by the Consciousness. In the transition between the old and the new movement there is a difficult little moment when the old habit is no longer there, and the new consciousness is not there permanently, so ... For example, it results in apparently clumsy gestures, movements that are not exactly what they should be. But it doesn't last, it happens once in a while for a particular thing, just for the lesson to be learned—there is always a lesson waiting to be learned.

To replace memory, the remembrance, the action, with ... For instance, if you want to know where someone lives, his address or house (that was last night's activity), the old method, the mental method has to be replaced with the new method of consciousness that knows the thing just when it has to be done: "This needs to be done." It's not, "Ah, I have to go there," no: you are at each moment where you should be, and when you come to the place you had to go to: "Ah, here it is."

It's really very interesting.

So, between the moment when you act like everyone and the moment when you act—when it's the Lord that acts, between the two, there's a little transition: you no longer quite know this, and don't yet quite know that, so this poor body has moments of uncertainty and awkwardness. But it's learning its lesson very fast.

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Really interesting.

(long silence)

One can well understand why saints and sages, those who wanted to feel themselves live constantly in this divine atmosphere, had got rid of all material things—because they weren't transformed, and so they fell back into the old way of being. And there comes a moment when it's ... unpleasant. But if you transform that ... it's in-com-pa-rably, vastly superior, in the sense that it gives an extraordinary STABILITY and consciousness and REALITY. Things become the TRUE vision, the TRUE consciousness; it becomes so concrete, so real!

Nothing—nothing else, nothing else can give that fullness.

Escaping, fleeing, dreaming, meditating, going into ... all that is very nice, but how poor it looks in comparison, how poor! So poor.

(silence)

The most difficult thing left is talking, it's what is the most difficult, it takes a great effort. This morning, while in that experience, there was almost a kind of entreaty from the body: "Oh, don't talk, don't tell him." I didn't intend to talk, but (gesture from above) I am compelled to. The body doesn't intend to talk, it doesn't like to, but something obliges it to.

That's the only difficult thing.

Words are so inadequate! I have been asked that, too: how will they communicate, the wholly supramental beings (I mean, without the mixture of this material origin), how will they communicate? Simply like this? (gesture of inner exchange)

Talking takes such an effort.

And it's not a "thought communication" like what they call telepathy, it's not that: it's... movements of consciousness. That too, without resistance: movements of consciousness [in Matter]. If, for instance, something needs to be done but not by this body, by another, we are still obliged to say, "This needs to be done in such and such a way," and that represents ... you feel as if you have to lift a mountain, whereas if the other person were in the same state, it would get done quite naturally and spontaneously. I've had examples: now and then I SEE (not "think," but see), I see: "This needs to be like that" (very small things) and I don't say anything—the other body does it. It happens now and then, rarely—but it ought to be the constant state.... Oh, what an admirable life!

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(silence)

And what about you?

I am in the tunnel, so to speak.

In the tunnel, oh, why?

A lot of work...

(Mother laughs) Oh, this is amusing! Yesterday or in the night, I forget when, I told you, but with great force (it was something "very important"!), I told you, "At the end of the tunnel there is the light, and don't argue—don't argue: at the end of the tunnel THERE IS the light." (Mother laughs) I wondered, "Why do I tell him that!..."

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