Santosh Gupta's recollections of her coming to the Ashram, inner contact with The Mother, her own sadhana & experiences.
The transcript of three recorded interviews of Santosh Gupta conducted by Narad have been presented here as chapters of a book. AI tools have been used to render the transcript as a narrative for enhanced readability. This may have resulted in light edits. Square brackets mark a few words supplied for clarity where the recording or the context was unclear. However the text matches her spoken words for the most part or is derived from it.
1-March-2014
Narad: Today is the first day of March 2014—the first day of spring in Russia—and we are honoured to have Santosh with us, to hear from her own lips many of her experiences. Santosh, welcome. How did you first hear about Mother and Sri Aurobindo?
As far as I remember, I was in the sixth class when I started reading their literature. There were some books in our house, and even at that age I never felt that I didn’t understand anything. It was all as if it were known to me before. That was my experience in the sixth class, when I was about twelve years old.
Then I came to the eighth class, and Sri Aurobindo left his body in 1950. I got the news at school itself. I still remember that day: I went into a corner and wept bitterly, not knowing what had happened to me. I kept telling myself, “There was only one place in the world where I could go now. Where will I go?”
Narad: Where were you going to school at that time?
That was in Ambala Cantt, Haryana.
Narad: So you were twelve years old when you heard that Sri Aurobindo had left his body.
Yes, and I cried bitterly—where will I go now? There was only one place in the world where I thought of going. I didn’t know about Mother at that time. Although I had read Her books, I thought that after His leaving there would probably be no ashram, no arrangement where one could go. So I cried; anyhow, time passed, and I did my matriculation.
After I passed my intermediate, it so happened that my elder sister was at a centre of Mother and Sri Aurobindo. I went there in my holidays, and from there the manager of that centre was coming to Pondy, so I came along with him. I had an urge inside that I had to go.
Narad: What year was this?
Early fifties—about ’52, maybe ’53. But the first time I actually came here was in ’55.
At that time Mother’s permission was necessary for anyone who wanted darshan. It was granted, and I came without telling my father that I was leaving; while boarding the train I just posted a postcard saying I was going. He was shocked, naturally—a young girl! But I had a deep urge to see Mother and to come to the Ashram.
I can tell you about my first meeting with Mother. Even now it is thrilling for me, and I still remember with gratitude what She gave me at that time.
When we arrived, we had the balcony darshan in the morning, and then in the evening, face to face, at the playground. Somebody gave me flowers: “When you go, you can do pranam today; take this flower.” I didn’t know anything—how to bow down, or even how to offer flowers. I kept them in my pocket and went to Mother, and when I wanted to give them I just took them out. She was smiling. It was not the proper way, of course, but She didn’t say anything; She taught me how to give and how to receive. She held out Her gown like this, you know, and I had to give it like this. And because I was constantly looking at Her, I didn’t even bow down.
When I left, there was a line behind me. I had gone two or three steps ahead when I felt as if somebody had pulled me by a rope. I turned around, and it was She, looking at me—She had [pulled] me with Her look. I went back, and She held both my hands and began to gaze at me. I don’t know how much time passed; She awakened my soul within, and I could see my real mother in front of me after many, many births. That was my first meeting with the Mother.
Narad: Then you went upstairs to have an interview with Her.
I talked very little with Mother, because she always gave me everything from within. There was very little correspondence or talk with Her, but whenever I went to Her, or in dreams, or when I prayed or meditated, I always got the answers from within. That is why, even after Her withdrawal, I don’t feel Her physical absence. She is with me every moment—a constant presence, a constant grace, a constant protection. In such a long span of life, seventy-five years, I have never felt lonely, never helpless, never unprotected.
Even in my recent operations—I have had six operations—I had a unique experience with each one, of how She was with me. So much so that after my brain operation the doctor, who knew nothing about the Ashram or about me when we first met, said, “It was not I who performed this operation; somebody made me do it.” Three doctors were involved, and they still come here; they are in contact and have started reading. The senior-most doctor said to me, “You have changed the course of my life. It was not you who was standing before us; it was Mother who was standing. We saw Mother in you.” She gives you not only a feeling, not only a perception, but a clear experience that She is with us.
Narad: You were roughly seventeen when you first came to the Ashram. When did you settle here?
I settled in 1958, at the age of twenty. Before that, of course, I was quite sure about myself from within, and about my decision too, but I had to reply to my parents, who were pressing me to come back. I wanted to be able to say something categorical to them once and for all, so I asked Mother.
We used to go to Mother daily in the playground. I didn’t know about envelopes or how to give a letter; I just wrote a single line on a slip of paper: “What particular mission have you assigned for me, Mother? Will you tell me?” She read it in front of me and nodded Her head like that, to go on. I thought perhaps She didn’t want to answer, or that She might answer afterwards. The next day I waited again; no reply—She looked at me as usual. The third day also passed, and then I forgot about it, thinking She probably didn’t want to give an answer.
On the fourth day, unexpectedly, She caught hold of my hands. “You know English?” I had passed my intermediate by then. I said, “Yes, Mother.” Then, holding my hands, holding me with Her eyes, She said very emphatically: “The only mission in your life is to serve the Divine.” That was all. She blessed me, and I understood that this was the final answer for me, so I could reply to my parents.
And when I was leaving, I prayed to Her—not with words—“Call me back soon.” She understood without my telling Her, and She called me within a year. The next year, I stayed on.
Narad: And your parents were accepting?
In the beginning, yes; and afterwards they came to visit as well. My father said, “Now that I have seen the place, I have no worries. The only thing is that we cannot come so far to see you often, but at least I am not worried now.” They were quite impressed with Mother too.
Then my father put a question to me. “You are so young”—I was only twenty—“you have accepted Mother, that is all right; you adore Her, that is all right; but what after Mother?” In Indian families, first the father, then the husband, then the son—somebody is there to look after a woman, isn’t it? That is how life runs. “But now that you don’t want to marry, what do you think of your future?”
I said to my father, “It is all right that you think in those terms, but as you know, we are not going to marry; even if we did not stay there, we are not going to marry. What will happen if you are not there? Have you ever thought of that? And we have accepted Mother as God in the form of God through our own experience, not because anybody told us so. That was the most decisive point for us. We always went by our own feeling, not by anybody’s saying. And you are worried, though everyone is aware that we regard Her as God: what will happen then?“
Then, at that young age and without much experience, I replied, “Mother is like the air flowing everywhere. You cannot catch that air in a glass or a bottle and say, ‘Only this is Mother, nowhere else.’ We must take Mother, God, in that way. She is ever present, She is everywhere; even if She leaves physically, She is not away from us.” Then he said, “Now I am assured that you have chosen the right path, in the right way.”
Narad: You told me you had some special remembrances and experiences with Mother. Can you share any of those with us?
The first was when I asked Mother about the mission of my life. As I told you, She took three days to answer. In those three days, in my room, I could see Mother all the time, always around me—looking at me, searching me from everywhere, even from within the body! She was probing; I could feel it, and it was a very delightful thing. And spontaneously, from within, there came the line of a Mirabai bhajan: “Mhane chakar rakho ji“—keep me as Your slave. That was the line that came out, and that is exactly what She replied after three days. Isn’t that an experience of love?
In the same way She replied, “Serve the Divine.” So more and more I was assured that I was right in what I was choosing, what I was doing, what I was deciding.
Narad: What work did Mother give you in the Ashram?
When I sent my photograph with the request for permission to stay here, Ravindra-ji told me that on seeing the photograph Mother had said, “From the photograph She looks like a teacher. But don’t give her teaching work; give her some more useful work”—as if teaching were not so useful! Naturally, all the teachers who had been asking for me as a Hindi teacher were disappointed. Then Ravindra-ji, with Mother’s permission and sanction, placed me in the Ashram Press, in the Hindi section.
I can point this out to you: when She said “more useful work”, I am realising only now, after fifty-five years, why She said so. At that time I was an apprentice, learning all the work of proofreading and printing books. Now I am in charge of that section, and I have learnt everything. I also work independently now: translation along with proofreading, revising earlier translations, and some independent translation as well. It has become so useful that I still remember Her with gratitude for the work She gave me. This work sustained me through all the illness of these five years, in which I have undergone five operations. After the brain operation, in these five years, I have finished translating fifteen volumes of Mother’s works.
Arvind: In which language?
In Hindi. That is my joy—it is with joy that I do it, and it is what She has made of me. Every moment with Mother is memorable: what we spend, what we breathe, what we say, what we do—all of it was full of Her. That is what I can say.
Narad: Santosh, not many people have spoken to us about a dear friend of mine and yours, Ambu. Could you tell us some stories about him?
Before I came to stay here I visited two times, and I used to attend his Savitri classes, which he took for visitors. As I told you, this literature was never foreign to me; I always understood each and every word of Mother and Sri Aurobindo, and Ambu-bhai noticed that in his classes. He inspired me, I liked him very much, and I received his blessings many times.
After I settled here I worked with him too. After he returned from his world tour, I typed his letters to his English and American friends, and I learnt much from that—outwardly, at least, from what he used to write. Later I studied Savitri with him personally as well: when he was sick and couldn’t take classes, I used to go to him at night and study for half an hour. He took such pains over individuals.
But what I received from him, above all, was this: he had a power like the one Mother used to give us through Her eyes. Whenever I went to him, he awakened that aspiration in me. The most wonderful thing was that he did it silently, without telling you, without letting you know that he was doing anything. He cured me, too, many times, whenever I told him of an illness. He had that power, but he never showed it and never claimed it, and he always turned us towards Mother, not towards himself. Many people have the ego of “I am something”; I felt and knew that he was not for that.
When he was leaving on his world tour for the first time, I went to him for pranam, to say goodbye, and for the first time he said, “Sadhana mein pragati karo“—progress in your sadhana. That was his blessing. He loved me very much; from him I received what one receives from a guardian, a parent and a friend. I lived with him for hardly seven years: I came in ’58 and he left his body in ’65. Six months before he left, I had a feeling that he was withdrawing. Even so, that inner relationship is a very beautiful thing: you don’t feel the pang or the sorrow of separation; you see the person on another level—not only memories, not only guidance, but a constant presence with you, as we had with Mother and Sri Aurobindo. My reverence for him has never left. It is not a sorrowful reverence; whenever I remember him, it is very, very joyful.
He also had the power to cure. Once, when he came to our place, my eldest brother came to receive him at the station. My brother had asthma at that time and didn’t say anything; they came home, chatted and had dinner. But Ambu-bhai was observing that my brother was in trouble, and as was his way, he silently did whatever he wanted to do. At night, as my brother was going to sleep, he felt that the asthma was absolutely gone; he couldn’t believe it. But believe me, in his whole lifetime he never had a second attack. That was Ambu-bhai.
Narad: I remember especially how joyous Ambu was.
Yes, always bubbling, always bubbling.
Narad: I’d like to ask you about the balcony darshans. You must have gone to them for so many years. Can you say a little about that?
That is a very nice experience, if you are not getting late. As I told you, in our childhood, in our family, we never had worship or rituals or anything like that; we never knew anything. Whatever I had, whatever I did, whatever I achieved was all from within and from Mother; She showed me everything.
As for the balcony darshan, I used to sleep late at night, because Mother had given me eight hours of work and I was tired; I would reach home at eleven o’clock. I had no clock when I came here, but I used to tell Her, “Wake me up before balcony darshan.” I would go to sleep, and She would come at six o’clock and wake me up. Can you imagine how much work She had to do for us? After getting up I would just wash and rush. I never missed balcony darshan. I used to stand just below the balcony, in front of Her eyes, with as much devotion in my heart as I could. One day, as She looked down at me from above, I felt as if a lotus in my heart had started opening. That was my experience at that time. And after that, all the devotion, all the adoration…
After the balcony darshan I used to come to the meditation hall—absolutely daily. She taught me how to meditate; after that I couldn’t get up, so natural and spontaneous was it. One day She also came in a dream. I had been praying to Her, asking how to feel peace, how to have the descent of peace. In the dream I was sitting, and She put Her head on my head, upside-down like this, so that the two heads met. And She drilled through my head, going at least six inches deep inside. It was such a nice experience, full of bliss. I thought I would write to Her about what had happened, but when I came to the balcony She gave me such a recognition, such a smile, that I knew She knew everything. After that, when I came to the meditation hall, for half an hour it was as if a nice bird [were sitting] on my head. I could feel the descent of peace that day; that day I knew what the descent of peace is.
In the balcony She used to give, within ten minutes, to thousands of people, each what he wanted. Isn’t that a miracle? Is it possible for a human being—just by seeing, and that too from a distance, all together at a time, to everybody according to his need? And that is not physical; it is something more—the responsibility of a Guru: to awaken a person from within. That was Her work. Can we not accept Her as God? We are bound to. She has seen our lives.
I will relate another experience. Some people from Golconde approached Mother, asking whether I could do gate duty for one hour. I was new, so everybody was trying to take me for work. They wanted me, after the balcony darshan, from six-thirty to seven-thirty, to go and sit at the gate. Mother didn’t ask me physically—nobody asked me physically—but She came in my dream. I was standing in the Ashram itself, near the first staircase opposite the Samadhi, when She held me like a friend and, looking at me, said, “Would you like to work in Golconde?” I said spontaneously, “No, Mother—not with the present work.” I was already fully busy the whole day. She smiled and said, “Oh, yes, yes, okay,” patted me, and left.
She gave Her reply to the people who wanted me without telling me anything, from any side. After a few days I heard that it had actually happened: they had approached Mother, and She had replied, “No, She won’t; it is her time for meditation.” That is what matters to me, because I had already seen it in the dream. One could say that She was interested not in our big experiences or in the big part of our sadhana, but in every detail of each of us. She knew everything without our telling Her or asking Her anything physically; She would reply on my behalf.
So whatever I got in my life, I got from within, directly from Her—no interviews, no letters; just blessings, birthday blessings, going to Her and doing pranam—because I always got the answer without having to ask personally.
Narad: You and I were both here when Mother left Her body. Can you speak about that day?
That would bring tears to my eyes. Again, She gave me something wonderful which upheld and sustained me.
Her body was laid on the couch in the meditation hall—probably all of you know that. We could go for darshan any number of times, whenever we felt like joining the line. For three days it continued like that; we didn’t even go home, we sat there itself—that is another story. But one thing I can tell you: whenever I went for darshan, I saw Mother in different postures. Nobody will believe this. Sometimes Her face was turned this side, sometimes that side, sometimes straight. All those three days I saw Her in different positions, so it was not easy for me to believe that She had left.
When they were bringing Her in the coffin, I felt from within that I should stop them. Anyway, I did nothing; I went on with open eyes, seeing Her, feeling Her. And then I saw Her golden, radiant body. It was nothing else—no blood, nothing else; even all the veins were full of light, and it was flowing like that. I have seen that golden body of the Mother. It had its warmth and its peace, a tremendous, indescribable peace. Such was the impact of seeing that body alone that when I got up after all the ceremony, I thought I too had been transformed.
Then I asked Her, “When you have achieved so much, when you have done so much, why did you leave? What was the necessity of leaving the body when you could transform it so much?” And She said, “It was not enough; something more was necessary. I still have to make a bridge.” With that She gave me inner solace.
Most probably a similar experience happened to Madhav-ji as well. He wrote afterwards along the same lines, so I could corroborate my experience with that. It is not anybody’s imagination.
Narad: Did you know him [Madhav-ji] well also?
Not well, but I went through him to Mother when I approached to stay here. There was that secretarial contact, but nothing otherwise. I did respect him and revere him.
Narad: Nolini?
Not much. I had a great deal of contact with Ambu-bhai, a little with Amrita-da, and with Pavitra-da not much, but sometimes he used to talk. From Pavitra-da we could always feel that he was such a direct channel from Mother that he would never say anything mixed with his own. He conveyed everything as if Mother Herself were telling you—that is the most important thing; you could feel it from his eyes and from his words. And if you were a little troubled or restless, or had some problem, you got solace from him. That is all the contact I had with him. Otherwise, all the senior sadhaks and members are our guru-bhais and respectable children of Mother.
Narad: One last question about the Ashram: the atmosphere here in those early days.
I am not so early, but I am lucky to have seen and felt both phases of the Ashram. That is again my personal feeling. When I came for the first time in ’55, I was only seventeen, and what I could feel at that time was that Mother had full control of everything in Her own hands. Everything was centralised; She had control of each and every detail—from the finances, the management and the running of the Ashram to Her other responsibilities and Her sadhana.
But when I came in ’57, in those two years I could feel the difference. She had handed the management over to different persons; the central thing was no longer there—She had distributed it. I could feel this very clearly. Naturally, along with that, some differences will be there, outwardly, from the management point of view. But this much I can say: I never felt a difference in the basic inner thing, if you are sincere and follow it yourself. The atmosphere may be a little diluted; you may find it a little more difficult to concentrate than before; but it is not gone. The Ashram has not changed on those lines, and it will remain so, because Mother and Sri Aurobindo did so much sadhana for us and established the consciousness so firmly that nobody can tarnish it, in spite of all this present drama.
Whenever I am near the Samadhi, I really feel, sometimes, that the Samadhi is like a yajna, with flames going up and up and up. Whoever comes, including ourselves, whatever we throw into it like an ahuti, Sri Aurobindo is there to burn it up and exhaust it. He is still continually exhausting our errors, our stumbling, our faults—everything—and then he takes us up. This is my feeling.
Narad: I don’t think we have anything to say after that, except perhaps a few words from you for young people who are seeking—who have not met Mother, who have perhaps just begun reading Sri Aurobindo and Mother.
If they had not met Mother, they couldn’t have come here. Who has brought them here? Not you and I. The inner soul of everybody—the moment it is awakened by anything, by any influence, any word, any reading, any scripture, any following—whoever is awakened will know what he has come for, where he has to go, and what he has to do. Nobody comes here just like that. He may not be able to stay—that is another thing; he may not be very clear about his future, his aim, or himself in the beginning—that can happen. But nobody comes here just by chance; no, I don’t think so.
I never lose hope when I see little children at the Samadhi, and sometimes I see their feelings in their eyes. Some children cry on entering the Ashram, and some drag their parents inside and don’t want to go out. What is this? Who teaches them? Who asks them? So I am not in despair about the younger generation. It is Her work, God’s work. When She has created it, She will take care of each one of us. One day everybody has to go on this path, today or tomorrow; each is destined to follow it. And He has given such diversity that we cannot predict His ways.
Arvind: When you went to Mother on your birthdays, several times—going to Mother on your birthdays and Mother giving you a card—can you speak about that?
Everything is too personal, and I don’t object to sharing it, but I don’t want you to feel that I am only talking about myself. What I want to tell is how Mother used to work on us; that is my main purpose in telling all these things. As you ask about my birthdays: yes, it was many times, every year, as long as She was seeing people on their birthdays.
Just one incident, which may sound like a story but was very deep for me. I had gone to Her on earlier birthdays too, but this was the first time in the interview room, after 1963. I wanted to offer a garland of jasmine, but I had heard that nowadays Mother doesn’t wear them. Still, I had the wish to put it around Her neck, so, hearing that, I nevertheless took the garland and gave it to Her. She was a little nonplussed. She used to keep everybody’s garland, whoever brought one, on the arm of Her chair, rolled like this. So She was going to put my garland on the arm of the chair, but somehow it didn’t go there.
I had taken two new photographs of Mother and Sri Aurobindo, since I hadn’t had any before, so that I could take them from Her hand with Her blessing and keep them framed. They are still in my room. Those photographs were in Her lap, like this, and the garland, instead of going to the arm of the chair, went onto the photographs. It sat nicely on Her robe. She looked at me and smiled so mischievously that I knew She knew what was in my mind and had done it. She didn’t show that She had done it consciously, but the way She smiled made me feel: “Yes, I knew what you wanted.”
Arvind: Many people used to ask questions of Mother whenever they faced a problem. In your case, you always got the answer from within?
Most of the time, most of the time.
Arvind: So you never felt like asking Mother?
No, no; She always answered me. If I went to Her personally, even then She answered without my telling Her anything; and on days when we were not going regularly, She came in a dream.
So much so that I used to have very severe headaches when I joined the Ashram. I was not in the habit of working eight or ten hours, and I had to walk a long distance to the Press, so I always used to vomit in the afternoon before going; it troubled me so much. I prayed to Her: “What is this? I want to serve you, and this doesn’t allow me to serve you well.” Thinking and praying like that, after lunch I came home, spread my mat and lay down on it. Immediately after I closed my eyes, I felt that somebody had entered the room, but I didn’t open my eyes. I thought, “Whoever comes at this hour, let them go; I won’t open.” Then I felt that She came from the door up to my mat and sat near my head, and put Her hand on my head. Even then, although I felt that hand, that touch, so nice, I didn’t open my eyes.
Arvind: So it was like a physical touch?
Yes, absolutely—I felt as if somebody pressed a hand on my forehead like this, and that touch felt wonderful. But I didn’t open my eyes. I prayed once more for that hand once more, and She pressed again. Then She went around my mat, making a full round of it, and went out. I felt all this without opening my eyes. I slept, and when I got up the headache was gone; after that it didn’t trouble me like that anymore.
Narad: One last question, because we have kept you for a long time. Did you ever see Sri Aurobindo in your dreams?
No, no—not in the way I saw Mother. But in the inner experience I get his presence, and at times his answers too. I can feel him. It is just not in such a concrete way that I can describe it now.
Narad: Santosh, Mother has blessed us by your coming.
Thank you. It is nice to remember Her, to live those moments, to be with Her.
Arvind: I want to ask about the transformation of the body, the Superman, the coming of the new race. Do you feel that Mother is working everywhere in the world, that new things are coming up and changes are happening?
Certainly, certainly. I feel it, but otherwise too, if you see—I have this article from Russia. Three people show that you can recreate your cells. The method came directly from within; they experimented on themselves, and now they have generalised it and found ways by which we can do it. And in it they say that a very powerful force is entering the planet. They are not spiritual yogis; they are scientists and doctors. They are feeling that—so what about us? We can say it only through our feelings, but they are doing something physically; they are proving something physically. Otherwise also, personally, I am very, very sure.
Arvind: How many years will it take? When will it happen?
Arvind, years are very relative; our conception of time is very limited. These bigger things, these things of the cosmos, should be taken in that perspective. One thinks they should be finished in a year or two—no. It may take some hundred years. But certainly the speed of Nature has been expedited, much more than people can even think. That much is sure.
For us, it is now open; let it work in us. Just pray, nothing else. She has made things so simple—that is what I feel now—even for the physical body, our own body. It will not be a [complete] transformation, you know. But we can still cure so many things just by opening. She has made it very easy: you are not to do anything; you just allow [Her] to pass.
2015
Narad: Santosh, welcome. The last interview with Santosh was so beautiful that people have passed the DVD around, and many, many have watched it, as she spoke about her life. Today we are going to cover different areas. Santosh, many people today are seeking. They don’t know about Mother and Sri Aurobindo, but they are seeking; they don’t want the old life. What do you recommend for these young people who are seeking something higher, something truer?
When any one of us comes to Mother and Sri Aurobindo, naturally some urge within is inspiring us, guiding us, urging us to come here; otherwise no one can come. When one doesn’t have the aptitude for this life, no one can turn up—the world is big enough for such people to live in. But when we come here, we come with a certain aspiration within. We may know it clearly, or we may know it only vaguely. When we enter this atmosphere, when we enter Pondicherry and feel it, and see our deities, Mother and Sri Aurobindo, there is some commotion inside, some awakening.
That was so, knowingly or unknowingly, even in Mother’s time, when She used to instil that aspiration in us through Her eyes, merely by looking at us. Some people felt it very clearly and could decide their future clearly; some were vague but still pulled—something from within was pulling them to join the Ashram. When they wished to stay, Mother already saw, and still more examined them inwardly, seeing our possibilities and potentialities even when we ourselves were not very clear about them, and accordingly She granted or refused permission to stay. In that way, I think, most of us are here.
Now it depends on what we do during our stay, whether it is lifelong or for some years: whether we have made use of it, whether we have developed our inner soul up to the level that is expected of us, or whether we have fallen back into the old rut of the old life. That is a very essential point for all of us. If we cannot progress, naturally we lag behind in everything. And what does progress mean? How do we keep this fire burning within? For that, Mother and Sri Aurobindo have given enough guidelines, in their letters and in their writings. I think it is not such a difficult thing if we are a little conscious and try to imbibe it from their literature, from their words, from our prayers, and with their grace. They are always there, ready to help us—I can say so with confidence. It is we who lack that confidence, that aspiration, that prayer, that fire; that constant burning should be there. We should not go astray thinking that once we are granted admission, our life’s mission is over. That is not the life here. When you are granted permission, the real work starts, isn’t it?
To keep that aspiration burning—Mother and Sri Aurobindo both said so many times, in so many letters—first there is prayer; aspiration is still another step. When we cannot know or decide our future, what to do and how, at least we should have that much of a link with Mother, to ask Her, to pray to Her about our difficulties. In the beginning it may be just a repetition of words, but ultimately it leads us to the soul, and then it becomes aspiration. What Mother used to do with Her eyes in a moment, we may take some months or years to reach, depending on the intensity of our prayer, our confidence and our faith—but it comes. Nobody stands before Her empty-handed. So I should say I was lucky to have that opening from the very beginning, from Mother.
Narad: Now, from prayer to aspiration—would you talk a bit about surrender?
After aspiration, think of what happens when you love somebody, when you aspire for somebody, when you have a yearning for anybody—even humanly. What do we feel? The first gesture of our being is to give ourselves. Whom we love, we are always thinking, “What is the best I can give to my lover, to my beloved?” In the same way, when that fire has burnt and that yearning has come, your being automatically starts flowing towards that, and that, I should say, is real surrender.
In words we can say, “You surrender everything to the Lord.” When you pray, you say, “All this, my being and everything, is yours.” Very well, that has to be done, but not only in words; in practice it comes when you really pine for the Lord. That burning fire within should be there. So aspiration leads to surrender automatically. We don’t have to ask ourselves, “How do I surrender?” That is, I should say, an extreme, ultimate step. Before that we have to employ the same method: prayer. We must at least start feeling that everything belongs to the Lord, not to me. My every action, my every thought, my every word, my every relation, every connection, whatever I do from morning to night, should be inspired by You and offered to You. That should be my gesture.
At first we can always pray, but then it comes automatically. She doesn’t care to listen to our words; She sees the flowing of our consciousness towards Her, which She is ready to accept every moment. Every moment She receives it.
Narad: And when problems come up, with others, or in oneself—disharmony, anger, desire, ego; we can go on and on…
The method of dissolution is the same for everything. When we approach Her, we try to become one with Her consciousness, and we enlarge our consciousness. Ego is the last thing to go, but it shows itself in everything—in whatever we do, whatever we think, whatever relationship we have; that supremacy of “I am something” is always there. To change the ego, we first have to know whether we are egoistic, and we don’t even realise it. That is the main hurdle: we go on justifying our actions and our thinking.
Take anger. When does anger come? When things happen contrary to our ideas, to our expectations, we get angry and irritated. We are thinking of doing one thing in a particular way; the person we work with may think otherwise, or may not act according to our instructions, even if we are in charge. These are small examples, but in life anger comes whenever anything displeasing comes to you and you are irritated beyond expectation. So the first thing is that we should always be above our own selves. We should not insist that the way we think and the way we do is right and that others are wrong. When we have a larger understanding of ourselves as well as of others, anger won’t come; you won’t react. You will be as peaceful within as before. You will try to understand the other person’s viewpoint, and then reconcile.
If you still find that you are right and he is wrong—because that happens; nobody is perfect—then you can arrive at a harmonious understanding. But we should not insist. That is the trouble with human nature: “What I think is right; he should do this.” No. You have expressed your view; let him think it over. If not at this moment, he may realise the next moment that he is not right. This holds if you are the head of a department, or in any situation where you are leading—even at home. When you feel “this is the correct way”, still we should not insist. First we should give the other person a little time, some space, and with love try to convince him—if you have to convince him—that you also care for him and understand him, so that he can come around. And inwardly we can always refer our difficulties to Mother.
Narad: Sri Aurobindo says that the first essential thing is peace.
Yes, and in that context let me mention that Sri Aurobindo once said, very jokingly, that when he talks of surrender, the first thing people surrender is their common sense. So what real surrender is—that is very necessary for our lives.
Narad: How do you bring in the peace?
Well, for me too this has been a great challenge till now—although, as I told you about my experience in the last talk, to some extent it is always in the background. Real peace comes with the inner contact. Then we don’t even have to invoke: as soon as She stands before you, you are in Her environment. She covers you with all that is Hers, and She has everything—whatever we ask for. Her mere presence, Her mere coming, is so peaceful, so blissful; even the memory of it is so blissful that peace comes automatically.
But in the present, in day-to-day life, when you are facing problems all the time—challenges, difficulties, some personal problem to solve—even then the stage of our consciousness should always be to stand back. That is the first fundamental rule of spiritual life, for Mother and Sri Aurobindo, and for the Gita and every scripture: to detach yourself is the first necessity. Now, how to stand back? That has to become the natural state of your consciousness; only then can you remain peaceful. Being peaceful doesn’t mean that we sit for meditation, close our eyes, remember for some time and are very peaceful, and the rest of the time are agitated. That is not peace. Real peace comes when we know that this outer self is not I. The Gita says this very beautifully, and I have experienced it by Mother’s grace. Then you don’t even need meditation; it comes automatically. You face any difficulty and just stay behind; you don’t get involved with the situation. Whatever comes will bring its solutions with it, because you are seeing from another level. That solves everything, and we remain peaceful.
But when we are involved, when we are attached—to persons, to situations, to our environment—we immediately take on those vibrations. A person is very agitated, he is angry with you, he has abused you; you also get irritated, isn’t it? You can retort in the same way. That is the first reaction, mostly. If you are sensible enough to control yourself, you may not utter the same abuses, but you will feel hurt. If, on the other hand, you are aloof, nothing touches you, and that aloofness itself pacifies all that agitation and anger—in the other person too, and in you.
Narad: In the person too?
Yes. But for that, we shouldn’t say from the mouth, “I am very peaceful”, while inside we are bubbling. That is not peace; that won’t have any influence.
Narad: How did you come to have the peace? You said it was a long journey until you developed it. Was it because of your nature?
Even now I feel I fail at times; it is not that I am always in that state. I do feel that many times.
Narad: But you spoke to me about experiences, and said they don’t take us very far unless we translate them into everyday life.
That is true. Both things are helping; both are means to advance. Without experience you may not have firm faith. What you have seen and experienced yourself, you naturally have more faith in than in anyone’s sayings or words, isn’t it? So experiences help in that way. But if we are just proud of them—“Oh, I am having so many beautiful experiences; I must be something within”—then everything is gone; it is of no use. It has only made you egoistic. So what I have seen and experienced should lead me, should tell me that I have to advance still further. It is not that you are something. By grace you are getting it, so invoke that grace: that I may go still further, come still nearer to you.
Experiences don’t come to everybody; that is also true. By sadhana some people may have that inner opening. Some people have it as in my case, I should say—as a God-given gift from very childhood. But it never made me mad with the idea that I am something. I used to see my question papers before my eyes before the examination. I could tell events beforehand. That was not my doing; I should say it was a God-given gift. But I developed it, in the sense that I took it in a very light way, took it as a milestone for my sadhana, and perceived it like that. Certain things God has given me in a very natural way: the opening to Mother, first the remembrance of Mother. There was an urge, without having seen Her—“I must go there, I must see Her”—and that was my only aim while I was staying outside. So probably all these experiences were helping me.
Narad: Preparing you.
Preparing me and bringing me to the true path. Because I was a little open, I was ready; I was aspiring that way, and Mother did not find any difficulty in going on opening me from within. So I say both things are helpful. But most of us don’t have experiences, and we should not be depressed—“Oh, that person is having so much, and I don’t; even after so many years I don’t see anything, I don’t find anything, I don’t feel anything!” You may get depressed when you hear somebody else’s experiences. I didn’t get anything after fifty years.
Narad: After how many years?
Fifty years, even—I didn’t get anything. I didn’t feel like that. But that is not the criterion. With the experiences we have to grow. The yoga of Mother and Sri Aurobindo is that we have to grow in consciousness, to change the consciousness, to establish God—establish that consciousness—in us, and to become that consciousness; we have to become as large as they are. Then every difficulty dissolves. It is our petty little closed rooms, in which we are living, that disturb us all through our lives. So experiences do not matter at all. They will come by their own accord, whenever the time comes, whenever God sees that you are ready. We are not to pine for experiences, but when they come, most welcome—as we take a more confident step towards the goal, towards our future.
Narad: You once told me, “Mother is bearing all.”
Yes. To say it in words, you may not believe it. Mother is bearing all; She is doing all; She is looking after us in every way. It will not influence you unless you have that experience—when you are in some difficult position or situation, and She comes all of a sudden, in a most unexpected way, and then you realise, “Oh, how She is with us.” But this becomes very natural when we are one with Her.
In sadhana there are always two steps. First, it may be hearing, it may be reading, it may be remembering, it may be prayer, whatever it is; but ultimately we have to be one with Her. And to be one with Her is the psychic soul. That is a mirror within ourselves which shows our real self as well as the deities seated within. And then we feel, at every step of life, at every moment, that it is not I who do anything—not this “I” which I call myself. We can see always that Mother is doing everything, the Lord is doing everything, God is doing everything, whatever you may call it. Only then do we have the psychic experience, that opening. The more the psychic governs our outer life, the more we are in that state.
For that, even our saints and rishis have spoken of sahaja samadhi, the spontaneous trance. You are always somewhere else, because you are seeing your Beloved before your eyes. And then you are full of Her thoughts—in our consciousness, in our doings, in our actions. When we feel Her everywhere, there is no area left without Mother, without the Lord, without God. Then it is a very, very natural and constant samadhi.
So She bears all—when we see it with our own eyes, when we feel Her working through our experience. Till then we have to believe what they have said and what we have read, and keep that faith at least: that one day we have to realise it. That should be our prayer, our aspiration, and She grants it. What else has She come into this world for?
Narad: Dealing with pain. So many people are in pain.
Physical pain, or…?
Narad: Yes, let’s talk about physical pain first.
I have also suffered; I am suffering already.
[Santosh breaks off to invite someone in the room to take a stool, saying it will be painful for them to sit on the floor, and adds that she herself cannot sit on the floor. She also asks a participant, whose name she does not know, to hold their questions for later.]
Narad: How do you work on your pain?
Well, both ways. The physical has to be treated physically, and medically too. It is not that we have that much mastery through our consciousness; we are not with God all the time, twenty-four hours. There are lapses; there are moments when we are separated. So for the physical, again, the process of prayer should continue, and physically, medically also, we have to treat.
And I really feel that God has given us a machine with which we work all the time, but we know nothing about its parts. When it gets stuck, we don’t know what to do. With other machines we can do the repair, but not with the body. We don’t know what is happening, so we rush to a doctor who knows, and he also may not know the whole thing. It goes on like that in the physical: we go stumbling and suffering, and with all the aids we take we may lessen the suffering a little.
But more and more we should become conscious about the body, as we are conscious about other things—our anger, our nature, our character, our mental thinking. As we are sorting things out here, offering things here, enlarging ourselves in every way, and sublimating our feelings and emotions, we should try the same physically as well, apart from the aids. What I found the most effective way of coming out of pain is to detach yourself. It is difficult and does not always happen, but it helps. And will power—will power in such a way that the body has to reject the pain and not accept it. Generally we say, “Ohh, it has to come; it will come; I can’t help it; you have to suffer.” No; that is not our yogic attitude. You have to fight—fight with will. If somebody stands before us terrorising us, wanting to fight, should we run away, or should we offer our face too, “All right, you slap”? We should all be able to slap [back]. That comes from inner will power. Detach yourself, call the Lord; the rest He will do. You may not find an immediate effect, but the next moment you may find, “Oh, everything is gone.” But it is not very practical for us, because we are very much tied down to the physical. It is not that the ways are not there; how much we succeed depends upon us. I also cannot boast, although I have gone through so much physical suffering, as I told you last time.
But those sufferings passed like nightmares. Really, I did not feel that part of the suffering, in proportion to what they were. It could have been much worse; they could have been fatal too.
Narad: Would you speak a little on humility and gratitude?
Humility doesn’t come merely from effacing yourself in words. When we say to somebody, “Oh, this is your grace, this is your doing, I am nothing”, and show ourselves meek, as if we feel we are nothing and can do nothing—that is not humility. Nor are we humble just because we don’t boast about what we are doing. Inside we may still be liking it: “People should admire me; people should know that I am something; I have achieved something.” If somebody behaves with you in an unusual or abnormal way, see how you react. That is not real humility. Outwardly you may say, “Oh, aap to bahut… you are so great,” but that is not humility.
A humble person, first of all, doesn’t pronounce “I am so-and-so, I am such-and-such.” Second, he has realised within himself that it is not he who is doing anything; even in his own life there is someone else over him who is doing everything. So how can he be egoistic? How can he be arrogant? How can he boast? In his heart of hearts he feels that it is not I who is moving my life, not I who is doing the actions; there is someone else. So all the credit goes to Him: “I am living because of Him; I am surviving because of Him; I am doing things because of Him.” Real humility comes then.
For our conduct and day-to-day life it is all right, of course: we shouldn’t be arrogant, and there are many little things that are also necessary. We should not confront anybody with everything; that is not how practical life is lived. But the person who is really in contact within will never fail. He is the truly humble person, and he won’t announce that he is humble. His very figure, his personality, his utterances, his face, the very influence of his personality, will emanate it when he sits with you. That is real humility; that is real peace. When you find peace in somebody’s presence—a saint, a sadhu, anybody—why do we feel peace in their presence? They don’t utter a word; at most they put a hand on you; you pass by them, you sit near them, and then you find peace emanating from that being. That is what every one of us is to be.
Gratitude also, I should say, is moment to moment: our deepest, most sublime feelings offered to the Divine. We always say that when somebody does something for you, you must feel grateful; you write, you reply, “I am very grateful to you.” That is one way. In our dealings with one another we should have at least that much gratefulness in our normal day-to-day life. Gratefulness is not only good for the other person or for your relations; it brings joy to you. All of you must have felt that gratefulness brings real joy in life. And that joy, that goodness, brings more goodness to you. That is the beauty.
And when we love the Divine, automatically, with every breath, we are constantly offering ourselves with gratefulness. It is not that “Mother has done something, so I must write to Her, I must tell Her that you have done so much for me and I am grateful.” She doesn’t expect that.
Narad: There is a line in Savitri, “A prayer upon his lips and the great Name”. Taking the Mother’s name—can you speak about that, and the necessity of it?
It is the same thing: when She is with you every time, in every breath, only that will come. That is what makes it effective. People say, “I also pray, but I don’t get the response I prayed for.” Every great soul will say: pray, pray—nama japa. Do we realise what it means? It is not verbal. You may not utter it at all, but something within goes on constantly, incessantly. That japa is japa. And even God cannot ignore that.
There is an episode in the Mahabharata. Krishna is sitting, and his wife Rukmini is pressing his feet. Some devotee is earnestly remembering him for help; it was Draupadi, when her garment was being pulled away. Krishna used to sit up and then lie down, sit up and then lie down. Rukmini asked, “What are you doing?” After doing this gesture many times, he left immediately. Then Rukmini asked, “What was the mischief behind this action?” He said, “Yes, Draupadi was calling me, but till then half-mindedly, half-heartedly. She was expecting, ‘I’ll call Yudhishthira, I’ll call Nakul, I’ll call Sahadev; he will help me, he will come, he will do this and that,’ and sometimes in between she was remembering me too. But when she was disappointed from every side and called me alone, then I could not stay.”
That is our condition, all of us. We say we call him, but do we call him wholeheartedly? We can ask ourselves. This is an infinite path we have to march on, with so many things to establish in ourselves. But the proper life and the proper guidelines should be there, and that too ultimately comes from within.
Narad: And within, we know it’s the only path for us to take.
Yes; it eludes us because we are not accustomed to it.
Narad: Alexei is asking about psychological pain.
Do you mean, again, difficulties in relationships—in contact with situations, with persons, or in work—or inner difficulties?
That happens, and it is a very sad thing: some hidden, dormant things come up, and people are led away by them. It happens at times—not very commonly, but it happens. In such cases, the physical presence of Mother and Sri Aurobindo was a very solid support, because they knew the future, the destiny, the potentiality, and they knew the way to bring that soul back. Sometimes they themselves used to send the person out. Sometimes a person would go out and have that experience, but They went on constantly working on him. Ultimately, after a year or two or three, whatever it was, the person would come back. So this is sometimes beyond individual control. The person has to be very, very vigilant about himself from the beginning and always pray in the right direction. The things which we cannot sort out or correct ourselves we should always refer to Her, and She will take care of them.
[Near the end of the recording Santosh asks whether time is up; Narad tells her to go ahead, as they can go on a little longer.]
Apart from all the other things you have asked about—our nature, anger, jealousy, humility and everything—one main hurdle for most of us, probably for every one of us, is sex, isn’t it?
Narad: Yes.
It leaves nobody. You cannot be an impostor in this yogic life; such things are not allowed in this life. So what to do? With age, with everybody, it comes. Some part of our life is eaten up by this unhealthy thing.
In the West, at least, it is taken in a very natural way, but in our Indian society it is still kept out of spiritual life. Can it remain out just by our saying so? It attacks anybody, and it does attack; as soon as you grow young, this thing shows its face. What to do? Mother tried so many things; at least She established in the consciousness that we could come out a little further, one step higher, so that we don’t have that particular feeling of indecency, or that indulgence in it. But it comes in many ways. Emotionally it may come: we feel attached to the opposite sex, attracted. For some years it may go on like anything else, with intensity and intimacy. But ultimately it may drop off, if you are sincere to your path.
Still, I am telling you my own experience—don’t think that I am somebody. When I came, I was so young, only twenty. Because, as I told you, I had an aptitude for spiritual life from childhood, when I came here I used to see young boys and girls moving about freely, making friendships and all that. One question used to be in my mind: living in Mother’s light and guidance and presence, how can they love human beings like that? Is Mother not enough? How can they divide that love among themselves? What is the need? Why do they feel that need? Don’t they get love from Mother? I was asking Her that in my prayers and in my meditations: “If this weakness has to occur in every life, what is the idea? Can’t we conquer it in any life, so that we are free in the next? Is there no way?” Really, it was disgusting for me at that age.
From the very beginning I had the idea that the children of the Supermind would be like that—free of it. So it was a real shock to me: why, living in Mother, do they feel the necessity of loving each other? Can any human being be perfect? Why should I get attracted? I can have friendship; I can have a love that is very pure and sublime, which you feel for some with whom you are congenial and not for others—that is very natural. But not to be tied down. This sex relation makes you absolutely helpless, and then so many things come: jealousy and everything comes with it.
Then I asked Her, “At least make me free—that is what I want to pray to you: that I should see you, feel you, think of you in every way—maybe as a husband, maybe as a friend, maybe as a father, maybe as a brother. In all relations, may I see you and not anyone else. That will solve the problem.”
Narad: Mother says it in Her prayers and meditations: to see only you.
And then one day I was sitting near the Samadhi after my dining-room work. She came with two garlands in Her hands. In our Indian marriages, at the time of the wedding, the boy brings a garland and the girl has one, and they put them on each other, so that they are now husband and wife—in the West, whatever your ways are. She came with two garlands; she put one around my neck, and I put one around Hers. What an experience it was, to feel God as your everything—your husband and everything! She explained it to me so beautifully, made me realise it, and printed the relation with Her in my heart. And I was free, really, from that nuisance.
So we all have a very long way to go, and we have to keep on perfecting, because it is an endless path. But I am sorry to share this very personal thing with you; I never told anybody.
Narad: May we ask you to come again?
For what? There is nothing else.
Narad: I am sure there is so much more to speak about Sri Aurobindo also.
When it is put into practical life, everything is beautiful. That is what I can say.
Narad: Thank you.
Undated
Recorded during Santosh Ben's stay in a nursing home
Narad: Santosh, you have been in the nursing home now — how long? How many months?
It has been eleven months.
Narad: Eleven months? But you look better than when I saw you eleven months ago.
So the progress is ... about to come.
Narad: Any pain?
No.
Narad:No pain. It is Grace, only Grace.
[She speaks of a weight machine - the meaning of which is not clear.]
Narad: How is it in your sadhana now, being here?
It’s a blank. I don’t feel what is going on — why it happened, why it is continuing, just like that. I’m not worried, either.
Narad: What about the peace?
When I am not "un-peaceful", then I don’t worry about peace — isn’t it?
Narad: Yes, yes.
If I am "un-peaceful", then only I will feel [like asking] - "what is happening?".
Narad: You have many visitors — I see many visitors coming to see you.
When?
Narad: Yesterday, I saw many — other times I have seen many people here. You have a lot of friends.
That is true. Many people — many more will come, if there is place.
Narad: What about a private room?
It is difficult to say — to ask for it — but what they are doing is enough. And with a private room there will be [no] 24-hour service… but for my care I can’t do anything myself, not even get a simple glass of water. So staying separately would mean I would be alone. But now anybody can come — any sister will drop in.
Wonderful. Okay, very good.
Narad: Tell me, how does the body feel? How is your body?
The body is difficult to say — when I cannot walk, I cannot stand, I cannot sit. Then it is difficult to say how the body is. The body is like that all the time.
Narad: Do they try to make you sit?
On a chair, in the morning.
Narad: The Mother is coming to you?
Sometimes, when I’m conscious. And supposing I need something and nobody is there nearabout — then I pray to Mother, and somebody comes. Or the way I wanted it, it’s not there, and some other way it has come. Then I think probably it was Her wish to inspire somebody to come. Why should I insist? This is how my sadhana goes on — to leave everything to the Mother. It is not your wish that are getting things done — She is guiding, and this happens. It is not my wish that things are done; sometimes it is what is proper, but the Mother guides — the way She guides, the time She fixes, it’s Her doing. Because sometimes I do feel that probably a private room would have been better, but no — I would have been alone.
Narad: For many hours. Yes, yes.
But why this has happened is unknown to me — why this tragedy happened to me, and I don’t… I should not bother too much. Let it be what it is. She is taking me through it.
Narad: She’s taking you through a lot. I’m amazed to see you looking like this.
Everybody is like that [saying that] — but I can’t see it myself. I didn’t even see my own hair since one year.
Narad: But it looks fine — it’s beautiful.
I didn’t see it - that way — I’m unmindful. But She is seeing what She is looking after. When She has given the trouble, She is looking after it also. I should not meddle.
Narad: You are able to read a bit?
A bit, maximum one hour.
Narad: Very good. Can I get you any books to read like Nolini's books or any other books?
These small books are enough. The small books are good. What you gave me I could not read.
Narad: Okay.
Narad: Can you tell me — from before the surgery till now — how do you feel Mother has been carrying on your sadhana?
Before the surgery, it was fine. It was really fine — I remember those moments. Yes, it was wonderful.
Narad: It was very special. Yes, the interviews — then we used to meet in her house all the time.
At least I am not repenting.
Narad: Ah yes, we should not repent — never. Whatever comes, we should be grateful. I have lost so much, you know — so many loved ones have gone, and I stand alone. But She’s here with us - every moment.
Even now she’s with me. Otherwise it cannot happen. Things at the right moment will come. So many things are there - small, small things that open our eyes. But the final results have yet to be seen.
Narad: Ah, yes. Are the doctors saying anything?
No
Narad: I think they are surprised.
They were surprised… …when my voice came back. Because I was speaking all sorts of nonsense.
Narad: When did you talk to the doctors?
Mira told me.
Narad: Oh, Mira told you, I see. Okay.
When I said to my brother: "Take me from here. I will die here" — immediately after I lost coherent words.
Narad: But now it’s back.
That is what Dilip da said: "We never thought your voice would come back like that, so wonderfully". Even now, what will come, we don’t know.
Narad: Yes. None of us know — that’s the adventure of consciousness and joy. But I see a great brightness in your face and your eyes that I haven’t seen for some time. It’s very good.
So She’s giving me, accumulating something, something She is keeping.
Narad: Say something to Alexei — you come here, talk for a few minutes. I’ll let Alexei be with you for a few minutes.
Alexei: Do you remember me?
Yes.
Alexei: You’re very much improved.
Thank you. I don’t take anything extra — whatever they give, I take, nothing extra. If, with ordinary things, I am better, then what more [one can ask for]? She will make me all right, if She wishes so. God’s ways are always strange — She didn’t let my spirits go down, but She did give extraordinary things also. She’s taking me, as if rhythmically, slowly, in Her own way, and if not, that will also be Her wish. That way I have left everything to Her. I am not anxious, I am not in a hurry — in whatever way She wants to bring, let Her bring, and if not, that is also Her wish. What is there — everybody has to go. I can answer your question if you ask.
Alexei: Do you feel Mother’s presence more tangible, more precise, these days than before?
I could not follow your question.
Narad: Alexei is asking if you feel Mother more tangibly now than before.
No, I can’t say it is more tangible — She is with me, as I see, in so many things, in so many decisions, in so many ways.
I have no grudges. Servants; they sometimes don’t obey, and that is very painful when they go away like this [with their eyes averted, ignoring her] - because I am totally dependent. But then I don’t get angry — I remember Her, and She solves it. She solves. Either some servant comes, or some sister comes, something or the other happens, and they come and solve the problem. So I just have to keep a little patience, a little faith. I have not to be impatient, and if a little I have to bear, I should bear it. After all, every anxiety, everything, doesn’t have an immediate solution. And when we leave it to the Mother, and we should wait also patiently. This sickness is giving a lot of lessons: don't be impatient for anything.
But I am totally… not free… I am totally under somebody, so I have to carry on. What is the use of getting angry, of being impatient? I can’t do anything unless I keep my relations with people cordial. I can’t do anything — you know my condition, I cannot even roll or turn in the bed. You all tell me, “just roll, just turn” you gesture — I can’t. If you turn me, then I will hold on. So again and again I have to repeat it, but I repeat it because this is my Bhagya— I can’t help it. So, from time to time, one has to change oneself.
Narad: I think Mother is giving you the opportunity for others to take care of you, so you can concentrate only on your sadhana.
That way also I am not minding it. I’m not minding it - I know this very well. It is a time for my test. It’s not like a Sadhana - it is willingness to solve it. So that the maximum support I can get from others — that they also serve me, willingly, lovingly — that is my effort, that they should not think it is a burden. My behavior should be like that, so I try that way. I don't mind.
Alexei: You mean full acceptance?
Yes. I am solving it in my own way - to always behave in a manner that does not encroach upon their independence. If they don't like something - I should not go on doing it; I should see the occasion when to ask something of them.
Alexei: Is your mind calm?
Yes. Sometimes I feel bored as there is nothing to occupy myself. If I don't get sleep in the afternoon, then it is difficult to pass time. The people from home call me to come back. But I know it will be much more difficult [for them to take care of me]. They too will need to keep servants as it is a 24-hour duty.
Narad: Do you have opportunity to meditate?
The whole day is spent in meditation. But the atmosphere here is not very peaceful. It is more clouded. The atmosphere does not allow one to be peaceful.
Narad: What can you say to people who are suffering — any suffering, minor or otherwise? What do you say to people who suffer like your condition, or any other?
I don't follow your question. You mean to help others? You can come, time to time, but for other people — anybody — that is a great help, to give company daily, in the morning or in the afternoon, sometimes ten minutes, fifteen minutes. Just say hello. What more help can you give?
Narad: We will come to see you regularly.
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