Notes on the Way

7 October 1964

Things have clearly taken a turn for the better, not from the ordinary point of view but from the higher. Yet the material consequences are still there—all the difficulties are as though aggravated. Only, the power of the consciousness is greater—clearer, more precise, and also the action upon those who are of good will; they make quite considerable progress. But the material difficulties are as though aggravated, that is to say, it is... to see if we can stand the test!

It is like that.

It isn't long (since yesterday), something has cleared in the atmosphere. But the way is still long—long, long. I feel it is very long. One must last—hold on, above all, that is the impression—one must have endurance. These are the two absolutely indispensable things: endurance, and a faith that nothing can shake, even an apparently complete negation, even if you suffer, even if you are miserable (I mean to say, in the body), even if you are tired—to last. To hold on and to last—to endure. That is it.

But according to what I have been told, I mean by people who listen to the radio, read newspapers (all the things that I do not do), the whole world seems to be undergoing an action... which for the moment is upsetting. It seems that the number of the "apparently mad" is increasing considerably. In America, for example, the entire youth seems to have taken up with a sort of curious brain-wave which would be disquieting for reasonable people, but which is certainly an indication that an unusual force is at work. It is the breaking up of all habits and all rules—it is good. For the moment, it is rather "strange", but it is necessary.

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The true attitude, at present, is it not to try to be as transparent as possible?

Transparent, receptive to the new force.

I put the question to myself because the impression is that this transparence is transparent, but it is somewhat like nothingness, a nothingness that is full; all the same it is nothingness, one does not know. One does not know if it is a kind of higher tamas, or...

Above all, to be confident. The big difficulty in Matter is that the material consciousness (that is to say, the mind in Matter) has been formed under the pressure of difficulties—difficulties, obstacles, sufferings, struggles. It has been, so to say, "worked out" by these things and that has left upon it a stamp, almost of pessimism, defeatism, which is certainly the greatest obstacle.

It is of this that I am conscious in my own work. The most material consciousness, the most material mind is accustomed to act, to make an effort, to advance through whippings; otherwise, it is tamas. And then, so far as it imagines, it imagines always difficulty, always the obstacle or always the opposition, and that slows down the movement terribly. Very concrete, very tangible and often repeated experiences are needed to convince it that behind all its difficulties there is a Grace, behind all its failures there is the Victory, behind all its pains, its sufferings, its contradictions, there is Ananda. Of all efforts it is this one which has to be repeated most often; all the while you are obliged to stop or to remove, to convert a pessimism, a doubt or an imagination altogether defeatist.

I am speaking exclusively of the material consciousness.

Naturally, when something comes down from above, that makes, well... a crash, like that (Mother makes a gesture of flattening), then all is silent, all stops and waits. But... I understand well why the Truth, the Truth—Consciousness does not express itself more constantly, because the difference between its Power and the power of Matter

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is so great that the power of Matter is, as it were, annulled—but then that does not mean transformation, that means crushing. That is what they used to do in ancient times—they crushed all this material consciousness under the weight of a Power against which nothing can struggle, which nothing can oppose. And then one had the impression: "There you are! It has been done." But it has not been done, not at all! for the rest, down below, remained as before, without changing.

Now it is being given the full possibility to change; well, for that you must allow it full play and not interpose a Power that crushes it—this I understand very well. But this consciousness has the obstinacy of the imbecile. How many times during a suffering, for example, when a suffering is there, acute, and one has the impression that it is going to become unbearable, there is the little inner movement (within the cells) of Call—the cells send their S.O.S.—everything stops, the suffering disappears, and often (now more and more) it is replaced by a feeling of blissful well-being; but the very first reaction of this imbecile material consciousness is: "Ah! We shall see how long that is going to last", and naturally, by this movement it demolishes everything—one must begin all over again.

I believe that for the effect to be lasting—not a miraculous effect that comes, dazzles and goes away—it must really be the effect of a transformation. One must be very, very patient—we have to deal with a consciousness very slow, very heavy, very obstinate, which is not able to advance rapidly, which clings to what it has, to what has appeared to it as truth; even if it is quite a tiny truth, it clings to that and does not want to move. Then to cure that, one must have very much patience—much patience.

The whole thing is to hold on, to endure, to endure.

Sri Aurobindo has said this many times in many forms: Endure and you'll conquer... bear—bear and you'll vanquish.

Triumph comes to the most enduring.

So then, that seems to be the lesson for these conglomerates

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here (Mother points to her body)—bodies appear to me simply as conglomerates and so long as there is a will behind to keep them together for some reason or other, they remain together.... In the last few days, yesterday or the day before, there was this experience: a kind of consciousness wholly decentralised (I am speaking always of the physical consciousness, not of the higher consciousness at all), a decentralised consciousness which happened to be here, there, there, in this body, in that body (in what people call "this person" and "that person", but this notion does not exist very much any more), then there was a kind of intervention of a universal consciousness with regard to the cells, as though it asked those cells for what reason they wanted to keep this combination, if one can call it so, or that conglomerate. Indeed, they were made to understand or feel the difficulties coming from the number of years, the wear and tear, the external difficulties, in sum, all the deterioration caused by friction and usage—but that seemed to them quite unimportant. The answer was rather interesting in the sense that they did not seem to attach importance to anything other than the capacity to remain in conscious contact with the higher Force. It was like an aspiration (not formulated in words, naturally), what is called in English "a yearning", "a longing" for this contact with the divine Force, the Force of Harmony, the Force of Truth, the Force of Love. And it is because of that that they appreciate the present combination.

It is altogether another point of view.

I express it with the words of the mind, for there is no other way, but it was in the domain of sensation rather than any other thing. And it was very clear—it was very clear and very continuous, there were no fluctuations. At that moment, this universal consciousness intervened, saying,"There!—the obstacles", and these obstacles were clearly seen (this kind of pessimism of the mind—a formless mind which is about to be born and organise itself in the cells), but the cells themselves cared nothing for it; it appeared to them as a kind of

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disease (the word deforms, but they had the impression as of an accident or an inevitable disease or something which did not form a normal part of their development and which was imposed upon them). Then, at that moment, there was born a kind of lower power to act upon these things (this physical mind); that has given a material power to separate itself from that and reject it. And it is after that that there was this turning of which I spoke just now, the turning in the circumstances as a whole, as if truly something decisive had happened. There was as though a confident joy: "Ah! We are free from this nightmare."

And at the same time, a relief—a physical relief, as though the air was easier to breathe—yes, a little as though one was closed in a shell—a suffocating shell—and that... in any case an opening has been made within. And you breathe. I do not know if it is more than that, but it is as though a fissure was made, an opening, and you breathe.

And it was an altogether material, cellular action.

But as you descend into that domain, the domain of the cells, even of the very constitution of the cells, how it seems less heavy! This sort of heaviness of Matter disappears—it begins again to be fluid, vibrant. This would tend to prove that the heaviness, thickness, inertia, immobility, is something added, it is not a quality essential to... it is the false Matter, that which we think and feel, but not Matter itself, as it is. This was clearly felt.

(Silence)

The best one can do is not to take sides, not to have preconceived ideas or principles—oh! The moral principles, the set rules of conduct, what one must do and what one must not and the preconceived ideas from the moral point of view, from the point of view of progress, and all the social and mental conventions... no worse obstacle than that. There are people, I know people who have lost decades in surmounting one such

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mental construction!... If one can be like that, open—truly open in a simplicity, well, the simplicity that knows that it is ignorant—like that (gesture upward, of self-abandon), ready to receive whatever comes. Then something can happen.

And naturally, the thirst for progress, the thirst for knowledge, the thirst for transformation and, above all, the thirst for Love and Truth—if one keeps that, one goes quicker. Truly a thirst, a need, a need.

All the rest has no importance; it is that one has need of.

To cling to something one believes that one knows, to cling to something that one feels, to cling to something that one loves, to cling to one's habits, to cling to one's so—called needs, to cling to the world as it is, it is that which binds you. You must undo all that, one thing after another. Undo all the ties. And it has been said thousands of times and people continue to do the same thing.... Even they who are most eloquent and preach that to others, do c-l-i-n-g—they cling to their way of seeing, their way of feeling, their habit of progress, which seems for them the only one.

No more bonds—free, free. Always ready to change everything, except one thing: to aspire, this thirst.

I understand well, there are people who do not like the idea of a "Divine", because immediately it gets mixed up with all those European or Occidental conceptions (which are horrible) and then that complicates their life somewhat—but you are not in need of that!—the "Something" one is in need of, the Love one is in need of, the Truth one is in need of, the supreme Perfection one is in need of—and that is all. The formulas... the fewer formulas there are the better. But that: a need, which the Thing alone can satisfy—nothing else, no half-measure, only that. And then, you go!... Your way will be your way, that has no importance—whatever the way, it does not matter, it does not matter; even the extravagances of the modern American youth can be a way; that has no importance.

As Sri Aurobindo says: "If you cannot make God love you,

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make Him fight you. If He will not give you the embrace of the lover, compel Him to give you the embrace of the wrestler."¹ For He is sure to conquer you.

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12 January 1965

The whole thing is to hold on. And to hold on, I have found only one way; it is this Calm, the inner calm—a calm that has to become all the more... (how to say it?) complete, as the struggle is more material.

There has been for some time past (particularly since the first of January) a kind of bombardment of adverse forces—a fury, you know. Then you must remain like this (Mother becomes immobile like a statue), that is all. And when physically you have been shaken, you must not ask too much of the body, you must give it a good deal of tranquillity, a good deal of rest.

The difficulty is that I am very much absorbed by the condition of this body, it takes away much of my consciousness—the physical mind, for example, invades me completely.

Yes, I know it very well. But that is always the difficulty, the difficulty of everyone. That is why in the past they used to tell you, "Get away! Leave it alone to flounder about—you get away." But we have no right to do that, it is contrary to our work. And you know, you can arrive very well at an almost absolute freedom with regard to your body, so much so that you can feel nothing, nothing at all. But I no longer have even the right to exteriorise myself, just imagine! Even when I am quite unwell or things are quite difficult or even when I am left a little quiet, that is to say, at night, and I say to myself, "Oh, to go into my blissfulness"—it is not permitted. I am bound there (Mother touches her body). It is there, there that it is to be realised.

It is for that.

Only from time to time, for a precise action (sometimes it comes like a flash of lightning, sometimes for a few minutes

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only), the great Power that was there before, that used to be constantly felt, comes rushing, does its work, then goes away. But never on this body. It never does anything for this body—it is not a higher intervention that will change it, it is... from within.

The same thing is happening to you, it happens to everybody who does the work, and that is the difficulty. That is why I tell you: "It does not matter, do not worry if you are occupied with your body; only try to profit by that—profit by this preoccupation—to bring into it the Peace, the Peace." Always it is as though I was enveloping you within a cocoon of Peace. And then, if you could put, precisely into this mind that vibrates, stirs all the while, truly like a monkey, if you could put there... it is a Peace which acts directly in this material vibration—a Peace in which everything relaxes.

Do not think, do not think of trying to transform this physical mind or to silence it or abolish it; all that is still activity. Simply let it go on, but... put the Peace, feel the Peace, live the Peace, know the Peace—the Peace, the Peace.

That is the only thing.

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24 March 1965

S had a rather bad dream. She came to a house over which one had to keep watch, and none had done it; enemies had entered. S went into this house, found a room and Sri Aurobindo was there with a wound in his foot; he was groaning. He had been wounded by the enemies who had been allowed to enter into the house. Seeing Sri Aurobindo wounded, she ran, ran looking for you.

It is perhaps simply an image of what happened on February 11.¹

The foot means something physical.

I believe it is that, it is only a symbolic image of what happened.

It is not something that is going to happen?

Premonitory? No.

The foot means his physical action through some people or through the Ashram or through me.

I do not think it is serious. It is the image of what happened and it was recorded somewhere.

(Silence)

It is quite a curious development. For some time past, but in a more and more precise manner, when I hear something or something is read to me, or when I hear music or someone narrates a fact, I feel immediately: the origin of the activity or the plane on which it is happening or the origin of the inspiration is rendered

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automatically by a vibration in one of the centres. And then, according to the quality of the vibration, it is either constructive or negative, and when that touches, however little it may be, at a given moment, a domain of Truth, there is... (how to say it?) a spark, as it were, of a vibration of Ananda. And the thought is absolutely silent, immobile, nothing—nothing (Mother opens her hands upward in a gesture of total self-offering). But this perception is becoming more and more precise. And I know in this way—I know where the inspiration comes from or where the action is situated and the quality of the thing.

And it has a precision! oh! infinitesimal in detail. The first time I felt it clearly was when I heard the music composed for "The Hour of God"; it was the first occasion and at that time I did not know that it was a well-organised thing, a kind of organisation of experience. But now, after all these months, that has been regularised and for me it is an absolutely sure indication, which does not correspond to any active thought, any active will—I am simply an infinitely delicate machine for receiving vibrations. That is how I know where things come from. There is no thought. That is how the vibration of this dream came to me (Mother makes a gesture downward, under the feet); it was in the domain of the subconscient. So I knew that it was a matter of recording.

The other day when Z read to me his article, it was neutral (vague gesture at mid-height), all the while neutral, then all of a sudden, a spark of Ananda; it was this which made me appreciate it. And just now, when you read this text of Y, there was a small ray of light (gesture at the height of the throat), then I knew. A pleasant ray of light—not of Ananda, but a pleasant light, so I knew that there was something in it.

And there are degrees, to be sure, almost an infinity of qualities.

That is the way given to me for finding out the position of things.

And it is quite, quite outside the thought. Only afterwards,

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when you asked me, for example, about the dream, I said, "Logically, since the vibration is there (downward gesture), it must be a memory." And with a kind of certitude, because... because the perception is altogether impersonal.

It is an extraordinarily delicate mechanism and its field of receptivity (gesture of gradation) almost infinite.

My way of knowing people is also like that now. But since a long time past, when I see a photograph, for example, it does not at all pass through the thought; these are not deductions or intuitions—that creates a vibration somewhere. And then amusing things also happen. The other day I was given the photograph of someone, then I clearly felt it; by the place which was touched, by the answering vibration, I knew that this man had the habit of handling ideas and possessed the assurance of someone who teaches. I ask, in order to see, "What does this man do?" I am told, "He does business." Then I say, "But he is not made for business, he understands nothing of it." And three minutes after I am told, "Ah, excuse me, please; he is a professor!" (Mother laughs) It is like that.

And it is so constantly, constantly: the evaluation of the world, the vibrations of the world.

That is why I asked you to give me your hands just now. Why? It was just to have the vibration. Well, I felt what is called in English "a sort of dullness". I said to myself: "He is not all right."

And no thinking, nothing, simply like this (Mother remains still in a gesture of self-offering upward).

Then what is it that is not all right? (Mother laughs) Yes, it is that, it is a kind of dullness.

Yes, I am very much sunk in Matter.

It is that.

It is not funny.

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No, but can't you get out of it?

I am harassed. And my body does not help me much either.

Ah, no, the body never helps; now I am convinced of it. You can to a certain extent help your body—not very much, but still to an extent you can help your body. But the body does not help you. Always its vibration is on the ground.

Yes, it is heavy.

Without exception. Without exception it is a lowering and, above all that, it is something that makes you dull, dull—it does not vibrate.

It is heavy.

But with this sadhana that I am following, there are some leading strings which one can pursue. I have some phrases of Sri Aurobindo.... For the other sadhanas I had the method: whatever he said was clear; that showed the way, one had not to search. But here he has not done it; only he has said or made some remarks from time to time and these remarks are useful to me (also there is the night when I meet him, but I do not want to count too much upon that, for... you become too anxious to have this contact and that spoils everything). There are a few remarks that have been so retained by me and they are, yes, like leading strings; for example, "Endure... endure."

Suppose you have a pain somewhere; the instinct (the instinct of the body, the instinct of the cells) is to shrink and to seek to reject—that is the worst thing, that increases it invariably. Therefore, the first thing to teach the body is to remain immobile, to have no reaction; above all, no shrinking, not even

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a movement of rejection—a perfect immobility. That is bodily equality.

A perfect immobility.

After the perfect immobility comes the movement of inner aspiration (I always speak of the aspiration of the cells—I use words for what has no word, but there is no other way of expressing it), the surrender, that is to say, the spontaneous and total acceptance of the supreme Will (which one does not know). Does the All-Will want things to go this way or that way, that is to say, towards the disintegration of some elements or towards...? And there also, there are infinite shades: there is the passage between two heights (I speak of cellular realisations, do not forget that); I mean one has a certain inner poise, a poise of movement, of life, and it is understood that while passing from one movement to a higher movement, almost always there occurs a descent and then an ascent—it is a transition. Then, does the shock you receive push you downward to make you rise again or does it push you downward to abandon the old movements?—for there are cellular ways of being that should disappear in order to give place to other ways. There are others that tend to rise upward again with a higher harmony and organisation. This is the second point. And one must wait and see, without postulating in advance what should be. Above all, there is the desire—the desire to be at ease, the desire to be in peace, all that—which must absolutely cease, disappear. One must be absolutely without reaction, like this (gesture with palms open, of motionless offering upward). And then, when one is like that ("one" means the cells), after a time comes the perception of the category to which the movement belongs, and one has only to follow in order to see whether it is something that has to disappear and be replaced by another thing (which is not known for the moment) or it is something that has to be transformed.

And so on. All the while it is like that.

All this is to tell you that the thought is absolutely immobile; everything happens directly: a matter of vibration. Well, it is only

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in this way that one can know what one should do. If the thing passes through the mind, especially this physical thinking which is absolutely imbecile, absolutely, you cannot know; so long as it is working you are always led to do what you should not do, to have particularly the bad reaction—the reaction that helps the forces of disorder and obscurity instead of counteracting them. And I am not speaking of anxiety, because for a very long time now there has been no anxiety in my body—a long time, many years—but anxiety is like swallowing a cup of poison.

This is what is called physical yoga.

One must overcome all that. And the only way to do it: at every second all the cells must be (gesture of motionless offering upward) in an adoration, in an aspiration—an adoration, an aspiration, an adoration... and nothing else. Then after a time there is also delight, then that ends in blissful trust. When this trust is established all will be well. But... it is easy to say, it is much more difficult to do. Only, for the moment I am convinced that this is the only means, there is no other.

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21 August 1965

Since the 15th there has been a whole work of preparation for the transformation. What could one call it?... a transfer of power.

The cells, the whole material consciousness obeyed the inner individual consciousness—most often the psychic or the mental (but the mind has been silent since long). But now this material mind is busy organising itself like the other or rather like all the others, like the mind in all the states of being.

It is, as it were, a displacement of the directing will. And there, materially, physically, it is something like a surprise; and a need for identification with the new direction—that is a little difficult. It is difficult also to explain.... It is no more the same thing which makes you act—"to act" means everything, to move, to walk, anything. It is no more the same centre. And then, if through habit you try to cling to the old centre, oh! it makes a great disorder and you must be very careful not to let the habit, the old habit, express itself, manifest itself.

It is difficult to say. It is still too much only an action.

Thought here, in this brain, finds it difficult to adapt itself.

Because for two days (two days continuously, I mean) there was all the while an aspiration: "How will this new world be when it becomes material here? How will this new world be?" And then that put me so much "within" that I was... I was not distant, but there was a kind of a thick blanket of haze between me and the world as it is. It was there even today.

(Silence)

This morning, for example, several times, for some time (I do not know how long, but not very short, a quarter of an hour, half an hour, I do not know), the cells of the body, that is to

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say, the form of the body, had the experience that to remain together or to be dissolved depends on a certain attitude—an attitude or a will, something of both will and attitude. And with the perception (sometimes almost double at the same time, one being rather a memory and the other a thing lived) of what makes you move, act, know: the old way as a memory, and the new in which evidently there is no reason to be dissolved unless one chooses it—that has no meaning, it is a meaningless thing: why be dissolved?

And if, at the time when one falls back—it is not exactly that—when the old consciousness comes back to the surface, if one is not very careful, that produces naturally a swoon.

During oh! it was long the whole time between five o'clock and quarter to six, it was like that.

That gives, at the same time, the feeling of the unreality of life and of a reality which one might call eternal: the feeling of death does not exist, it means nothing, it is merely a choice. And the dislocation, which has no meaning, which has no reason to be there, is a fantasy.

And then all the old way of seeing, feeling, perceiving, is there behind, like a kind of blanket―a blanket of haze, which renders the contact woolly, imprecise.

Now that I have regained the ordinary consciousness, I can express the thing; otherwise it would be difficult to express. And the contrast or the opposition is painful, a suffering; both complain: the old has the feeling that it swoons, and the new that it is not left quiet. When you are in one or the other, it is all right, but when the two are together, it is not very pleasant. And there is a kind of feeling of uncertainty; you do not know very well where you are, whether you are here or you are there; you do not know exactly.

But this change of initiating power, if one may say, this transfer of power, has had upon me the effect of a unique experience, of something that had never taken place before. Unhappily, that did not last long. But the experience has left a kind of certitude

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in the body—it is less uncertain of the future. It came to it, as if to tell it: "It will be like that."

If that remains, it is evident immortality.

How do you define this physical mind which was made the object of the transfer of power?

It is not the physical mind. It is long since the physical mind has changed.... It is the material mind—not even the material mind: it is the mind of Matter. It is the mental substance which belongs to Matter itself, to the cells. That is what was once called the "spirit of the form", when it was said that mummies kept their body intact as long as the spirit of the form persisted.¹ It is that mind, this wholly material mind. The other, the physical mind, was organised long ago.

Then what is the difference between this material mind and the physical mind?

The physical mind is the mind of the physical personality formed by the body. It grows with the body, but it is not the mind of Matter: it is the mind of the physical being. For example, it is this physical mind which gives the character—the bodily character, the physical character—and which is in a large measure formed by atavism and by education. All this is called the "physical mind". Yes, it is the result of atavism, of education and of the formation of the body; it is what forms the physical character. For example, there are people who are patient, people who are strong, etc.—physically I mean, not for vital or mental reasons,

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but purely physically; you have a character. It is the physical mind. And this is part of all integral yoga; you go through the discipline of this physical mind. More than sixty years ago I did it.

But then, for example, this mind which is spontaneously defeatist, having all sorts of fears, apprehensions, always seeing the worst, repeating always the same things, is it the physical mind or the material mind?

That is the most unconscious part of the physical mind and that is the link joining the physical mind and this material substance. But it is already an organised mind, you must understand. It is the most material part touching the mind.... How can one call this "mind"? You cannot even call it the bodily mind―it is the mind of the cells, it is a cellular mind.

This cellular mind exists in animals, and even a little (very little, as a promise) beginning in the plants—they respond to a mental action. They do respond. As soon as Life manifests, there is already a promise of mind, of mental movement. And in animals it is clear. Whereas this physical mind truly begins to exist only in man. It is this which very little children already have; they already have a physical mind; that is to say, two babies are not the same, their reactions are not the same, there is already a difference. And it is this, above all, which is given to you with the special form of your body, by atavism, and then fully developed by education.

No, the physical mind, as soon as you take up an integral yoga, must be dealt with; but this material mind, the cellular one, I assure you, is altogether new, yes, altogether new.

It is the mind which was like an unco-ordinated substance, which was constantly active, but not organised (Mother makes a gesture of continuous trepidation). It is this which is now being organised. It is that which is important—for Sri Aurobindo had said that it was unorganisable and it had only to be thrown

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out of existence. And I too had the same impression. But when the action for transformation upon the cells is constant, this material mind begins to be organised. It is this that is wonderful—it begins to be organised. And as it is being organised, it learns to keep silent—that is most remarkable! It learns to keep quiet, keep silent and allow the supreme Force to act without interfering.

The greatest difficulty is in the nerves, because they are so accustomed to the ordinary conscious will that when it stops and the direct Action from the highest is asked for, they go mad, as it were. The other day I had this experience, which lasted more than an hour, and it was difficult; but this taught me many things—many. And all this is what can be called the "transfer of power"; the former power withdraws; and then before the body adapts itself to the new power, there is a period which is critical. As all the cells are in a state of constant aspiration, it goes relatively quickly, but all the same... the minutes are long.

But more and more there is a kind of certitude in the cells that whatever happens is in view of this transformation and this transfer of directing power. And even at the time when it is materially painful (not even physically: materially painful), the cells keep this certitude. And then they resist, they bear the suffering without depression, without being affected in any way, with this certitude that it is to prepare for the transformation, the process of transformation and of the transfer of directing power. As I said, it is in the nerves that the experience is the most painful—naturally, because they are the most sensitive cells, those that have the most acute sensation. But they have a very considerable, very spontaneous, spontaneously strong receptivity—without any effort—to the harmonious physical vibration (which is very rare, but still it exists in some individuals). And this physical vibration, what might be called a physical force, a harmonious physical vibration (spontaneously harmonious, without the necessity of a mental vibration, like the vibrations of a flower, for example; there are physical vibrations like that, which

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carry in themselves a harmonious force)—the nerves are extremely sensitive and receptive to this vibration, which puts them right immediately.

It is very interesting, it explains much, explains many things. A day will come when all this will be explained and put in its place. It is not yet the time to reveal, but it is very interesting.

I have truly the impression that it is being organised, the work has begun to be organised.

Naturally, one must carefully avoid allowing a mental organisation to intervene; that is why I do not try to explain too much; the mind would come in and then it is no more that.

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27 November 1965

This talk begins with Mother's comments on the message distributed on the Darshan day of November 24th.

"It is certainly a mistake to bring down the light by force—to pull it down. The Supramental cannot be taken by storm. When the time is ready it will open of itself—but first there is a great deal to be done and that must be done patiently and without haste."

Sri Aurobindo

It is good for reasonable people. They will say, "There, he does not promise miracles."

Why? Do many people have the tendency to "pull down"?

People are in a hurry, they want to see the results immediately.

And then, they believe they are pulling down the Supramental—they pull down some small vital individuality who mocks at them and in the end makes them play the shabby fool. This is what happens most often—ninety-nine times out of a hundred.

A small individuality, a vital entity who plays the big play and makes a great show, plays of light. Then the poor fellow who has "pulled" is bedazzled; he says, "There, it is the Supramental", and he falls into a pit.

It is only when you have touched, seen in some way and had a contact with the true Light, that you can distinguish the vital, and you perceive that it is altogether like the plays of light on a stage, an artificial light. But otherwise, others are dazzled—it is dazzling, it is "wonderful", and then they are deceived. It is only when you have seen and when you have had the contact with the Truth, ah! then you smile.

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It is quackery, but you must know the truth in order to recognise quackery.

At bottom, it is the same for everything. The vital is like a superstage that gives shows—very attractive, dazzling, deceptive; it is only when you know the True Thing that you recognise immediately, instinctively, without reasoning, and you say, "No, I do not want that."

And for everything it is so. Where it has taken a capital importance in human life is with regard to love. Vital passions, vital attractions have almost everywhere taken the place of true feeling, which is quiet, whereas the other puts you in ferment, gives you the feeling of something "living". It is very deceptive. And you do not know it, you do not feel it, you do not perceive it clearly unless you know the True Thing. If you have touched true love through the psychic and the divine union, then the other thing appears hollow, thin, empty—an appearance and a comedy, more often tragic than comic.

Whatever one may say about it, however one may explain it, is of no use at all, because he or she who is caught says immediately, "Oh, this is not what it is for others"—what happens to yourself is never like what happens to others! One must have the true experience, then the whole vital appears like a masquerade—not attractive.

And when you "pull", well, it is much more than ninety-nine times out of one hundred... out of a million there is found only one case where one happens to pull the True Thing-this proves one was ready. Otherwise it is always the vital which you pull, the appearance, the theatrical show of the Thing, not the Thing itself.

To pull is always an egoistic movement. It is a deformation of aspiration. True aspiration consists in a giving, a self-giving, whereas to pull means to want for oneself. Even if in the mind you have a vaster ambition—the earth, the universe—that means nothing, these are mental activities.

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(Long silence)

You felt nothing special on the Darshan day?

No.

Sri Aurobindo was there from the morning till the evening.

For, yes, for more than an hour he made me live, as in a concrete and living vision of the condition of humanity and of the different strata of humanity in relation to the new or supramental creation. And it was wonderfully clear and concrete and living.... There was all the humanity which is no longer altogether animal, which has benefited by mental development and created a kind of harmony in its life—a harmony vital and artistic, literary—in which the large majority are content to live. They have caught a kind of harmony, and within it they live life as it exists in a civilised surrounding, that is to say, somewhat cultured, with refined tastes and refined habits. And all this life has a certain beauty where they are at ease, and unless something catastrophic happens to them, they live happy and contented, satisfied with life. These people can be drawn (because they have a taste, they are intellectually developed), they can be attracted by the new forces, the new things, the future life; for example, they can become disciples of Sri Aurobindo mentally, intellectually. But they do not feel at all the need to change materially; and if they were compelled to do so, it would be first of all premature, unjust, and would simply create a great disorder and disturb their life altogether uselessly.

This was very clear.

Then there were some—rare individuals—who were ready to make the necessary effort to prepare for the transformation and to draw the new forces, to try to adapt Matter, to seek means of expression, etc. These are ready for the yoga of Sri Aurobindo. They are very few in number. There are even those who have the sense of sacrifice and are ready for a hard, painful life, if

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that would lead or help towards this future transformation. But they should not, they should not in any way try to influence the others and make them share in their own effort; it would be altogether unfair—not only unfair, but extremely maladroit, for it would change the universal rhythm and movement, or at least the terrestrial movement, and instead of helping, it would create conflicts and end in a chaos.

But it was so living, so real that my whole attitude (how to say it?—a passive attitude which is not the result of an active will), the whole position taken in the work has changed. And that has brought a peace—a peace and a calmness and a confidence altogether decisive. A decisive change. And even what seemed in the earlier position to be obstinacy, clumsiness, inconscience, all kinds of deplorable things, all that has disappeared. It was like the vision of a great universal Rhythm in which each thing takes its place and... everything is all right. And the effort for transformation, reduced to a small number, becomes a thing much more precious and much more powerful for the realisation. It is as though a choice has been made for those who will be the pioneers of the new creation. And all these ideas of "spreading", of "preparing", or of "churning Matter"... are a childishness. It is human restlessness.

The vision was of a beauty so majestic, so calm, so smiling. Oh! it was full, truly full of the divine Love. And not a divine Love that "pardons"—it is not at all that, not at all! Each thing in its place, realising its inner rhythm as perfectly as it can.

It was a very beautiful gift.

Well, all these things people know in some part, intellectually, like that, in idea; they know all that, but it is quite useless. In everyday practice you live in another way, with a truer understanding. And there, it is as though you touched the things—you saw them, you touched them—in their higher disposition.

It came after a vision of plants and the spontaneous beauty of plants (it is something so wonderful), then of the animal with so harmonious a life (so long as men do not intervene), and all

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that was in its right place; then of the true humanity as humanity, that is to say, the maximum of what a mental poise could create of beauty, harmony, charm, elegance of life, taste of living—a taste of living in beauty, and, naturally, suppressing all that is ugly and low and vulgar. It was a fine humanity—humanity at its maximum, but nice. And perfectly satisfied with its being humanity, because it lives harmoniously. And it is perhaps also like a promise of what almost the whole of humanity will become under the influence of the new creation. It appeared to me that it was what the supramental consciousness could make of humanity. There was even a comparison with what humanity has made of the animal species. It is extremely mixed, naturally, but things have been perfected, bettered, utilised more completely. Animality, under the mind's influence, has become another thing, which is, naturally, something mixed because the mind was incomplete. In the same way there are examples of a harmonious humanity among well—balanced people, and this seemed to be what humanity could become under the supramental influence.

Only, it is very far ahead. You must not expect that it will be immediately—it is very far ahead.

It is clearly, even now, a period of transition which may last quite long and which is rather painful. Only, the effort, sometimes painful (often painful) is compensated by a clear vision of the goal to attain, of the goal that will be attained: an assurance, yes, a certainty. But it would be something that would have the power to eliminate all error, all deformation, all the ugliness of the mental life—and then a humanity very happy, very satisfied with being human, not at all feeling the need of being anything other than human, but with a human beauty, a human harmony.

It was very charming, it was as though I lived in it. The contradictions had disappeared. It was as though I lived in this perfection. And it was almost like the ideal conceived by the supramental consciousness, of a humanity become as perfect as it can be. And it was very good.

And this brings a great repose. The tension, the friction, all

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that disappeared, and the impatience. All that had completely disappeared.

That is to say, you concentrate the work instead of diffusing it a little everywhere?

No, it may be diffused materially, because the individuals are not necessarily collected together. But they are few in number.

This idea of a pressing need to "prepare" humanity for the new creation, this impatience has disappeared.

It must first of all be realised in some.

Quite so.

I was seeing, I saw that in such a concrete way. Apart from those who are fit to prepare the transformation and the supramental realisation, and whose number is necessarily very restricted, there must develop more and more, in the midst of the ordinary human mass, a superior humanity which has towards the supramental being of the future or in the making the same attitude as animality, for example, has towards man. There must be, besides those who work for the transformation and who are ready for it, a superior humanity, intermediary, which has found in itself or in life this harmony with Life—this harmony human—and which has the same feeling of adoration, devotion, faithful consecration to "something" which seems to it so high that it does not even try to realise it, but worships it and feels the need of its influence, its protection, and the need to live under this influence, to have the delight of being under this protection. It was so clear. But not this anguish, these torments of wanting something that escapes you because—because it is not your destiny yet to have it, and because the amount of transformation needed is premature for your life and it is that then which creates a disorder and suffering.

For example, one of the very concrete things that brings out

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the problem well: humanity has the sexual impulse in a way altogether natural, spontaneous and, I would say, legitimate. This impulse will naturally and spontaneously disappear with animality. Many other things will disappear, as for example the need to eat and perhaps also the need to sleep in the way we sleep now. But the most conscious impulse in a superior humanity, which has continued as a source of... bliss is a big word, but joy, delight—is certainly the sexual activity, and that will have absolutely no reason for existence in the functions of Nature when the need to create in that way will no longer exist. Therefore, the capacity of entering into relation with the joy of life will rise by one step or will be oriented differently. But what the ancient spiritual aspirants had sought on principle—sexual negation—is an absurd thing, because this must be only for those who have gone beyond this stage and no longer have animality in them. And it must drop off naturally, without effort and without struggle. To make of it a centre of conflict and struggle is ridiculous. It is only when the consciousness ceases to be human that it drops off quite naturally. Here also there is a transition which may be somewhat difficult, because the beings of transition are always in an unstable equilibrium; but within oneself there is a kind of flame and a need which makes it not painful—it is not painful effort, it is something that one can do with a smile. But to seek to impose it upon those who are not ready for this transition is absurd.

It is common sense. They are human, but they must not pretend that they are not.

It is only when spontaneously the impulse becomes impossible for you, when you feel that it is something painful and contrary to your deeper need that it becomes easy; then, well, externally you cut these bonds and it is finished.

It is one of the most convincing examples.

It is the same with regard to food. It will be the same thing. When animality will drop off, the absolute necessity of food also will drop off. And there will probably be a transition where one

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will have less and less purely material food. For example, when you smell flowers it is nourishing. I have seen it, you nourish yourself in a more subtle way.

Only, the body is not ready. The body is not ready and it deteriorates, that is to say, it eats itself. This proves that the time has not come, that it is only an experience—an experience that teaches you something, teaches you that it will not be a brutal refusal to come into contact with the corresponding Matter and an isolation (one cannot isolate oneself, it is impossible), but a communion on a higher or deeper plane.

(Silence)

Those who have reached the higher regions of intelligence, but have not dominated the mental faculties in them, have an innocent need that everybody should think like them and be able to understand as they understand. And when they see that others do not, cannot understand, their first reflex is to be horribly shocked; they exclaim, "What an idiot!" But they are not at all idiots—they are different, they are in another domain. You do not go and say to an animal, "You are an idiot"; you say, "It is an animal." Well, you say, "It is a man." It is a man; only, there are those who are no longer men and are not yet gods, and they are in a situation... rather awkward.

But it was so soothing, so sweet, so wonderful, this vision—each thing expressing its kind quite naturally.

And it is quite evident that with the amplitude and totality of the vision, there comes something which is a compassion that understands—not that pity of the superior for the inferior: the true divine Compassion, which is the total comprehension that each one is what he must be.

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22 January 1966

I experienced this morning, for two hours, a kind of blissful state in which there was such a clear consciousness that all the forms of life, in all the worlds and at all moments, are the expression of a choice—one chooses to be like that.

It is very difficult to say with words.... The kind of obligation in which one believes oneself to be living, to which one believes oneself to be submitted, had completely disappeared, and it was quite a spontaneous and natural perception that the life upon earth, and the life in other worlds, and all kinds of life upon earth and all kinds of life in other worlds are simply a question of choice: you have chosen to be like that and you choose constantly to be like this or to be like that, or whether it happens like this or it happens like that; and you choose also to believe that you are submitted to a fatality or to a necessity or to a law which compels you—everything is a question of choice. And there was a feeling of lightness, of freedom, and then a smile for everything. At the same time it gives you a tremendous power. All feeling of compulsion, of necessity—of fatality still more—had disappeared completely. All the illnesses, all the happenings, all the dramas, all that: disappeared. And this concrete and so brutal reality of the physical life: gone completely.

I lived this state for more than an hour and a half this morning. Afterwards, I was obliged to return... to a state which appears to me artificial, but which is compulsory because of others, by contact with others and with things, and the innumerable quantity of things to be done. But all the same, in the background the experience remains. And there remains a kind of amused smile for all the complications of life—the state in which one finds oneself has been the fact of a choice, and for the individual the freedom of choice is there, and people have forgotten it. It is this that is so interesting.

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I saw at the same time the whole tableau of human knowledge (because when those states are there, all human realisations, all human knowledge, come like a panorama before the new state and are put each in its place—always, always when an experience comes, it is as though retrospective) and I saw all the theories, the beliefs, the philosophies, the way they link themselves with the new state; it was amusing.

And that does not call for a rest. These experiences are so concrete, so spontaneous and real (they are not the result of a will, still less of an effort) that they do not call for a rest.

But those who managed to have this experience for whatever reason, and who had not a thorough philosophical and mental preparation (the saints or in fact all those who led a spiritual life) had then a very acute impression of the unreality of life and the illusion of life. But it is only a narrow view. It is not that, it is not that. Everything is a choice! Everything, everything. The Lord's choice, but in us, not there (gesture upward): here. And we do not know it, it is quite within the heart of ourselves. And when we know it, we can choose—we can choose our choice, it is wonderful.

And this sort of fatality and bondage and hardness of existence, all have disappeared. All disappeared. It was light blue, light rose, all luminous and limpid and light.

I conceive very well that this is not an absolute thing; it was only a way of being, but a very charming way of being.... Usually those who have not a sufficient intellectual preparation, when they have an experience of this kind, they believe they have caught the sole truth. And then with that, they dogmatise. But I saw quite well that it is not that, it is one way of being, although it is a fine way of being, well, infinitely superior to what we have here. And we can have it here: I have had it. I have had it in an altogether concrete way. And there is always something that is not all right, wrong here or wrong there, or this or that, and then circumstances also that are not all right; always there are difficulties—all that... that changes colour.

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And it becomes light, light—light, supple. All the hardness and stiffness: gone.

And the feeling also that if you choose to be like that, you can continue to be like that. And it is true. It is all the wrong habits—evidently millennial habits upon earth—all the wrong habits that prevent you. But there is no reason why this should not be a permanent state. Because this changes everything! Everything changes!... It is evident that if one becomes master of that state, one can change all the circumstances around oneself.

In recent times (for a rather long time), there was this same difficulty with the body, which is not limited and shut up in a shell as is generally the case, and which receives spontaneously, not even with the feeling of "receiving", which has the vibrations of all that surrounds it. And then, when all that surrounds it is, from the mental and moral point of view, closed, uncomprehending, it is a little difficult; that is to say, they are elements that come and must be transformed. It is a kind of totality, a very multiple and very unstable totality, representing your field of consciousness and action, and upon which you must work all the time to re-establish a harmony, a minimum of harmony. And when around you something goes "wrong" according to the ordinary idea, it makes the work a little difficult. It is at the same time tenuous and persistent and obstinate. I remember, just before the experience, there was in the body an aspiration for harmony, for light, for a kind of smiling peace. The body aspired above all for a harmony, because of all these things that grind and scrape. And probably the experience has been the result of this aspiration.

Only, I have noted that in the life of this body I have never had the same experience twice—I may have the same kind of experience in a higher degree or in a much vaster degree, but never identically the same. And I do not retain the experience; I am all the while, all the while (gesture forward), all the while on the march. Yes, the work of transformation of the consciousness

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is so rapid, must be done so quickly that there is no time to enjoy or dwell upon an experience or get some satisfaction in it for any length of time—it is impossible. It comes forcefully, very forcefully; that is to say, it changes everything. And then something else comes. It is the same with regard to the transformation of the cells. All kinds of small disorders come, but they are visibly, for the consciousness, disorders of transformation; and then one is busy with that point, one wants to re-establish the order. And at the same time there is something that knows pertinently that the disorder has come to make the transition from ordinary automatic functioning to conscious functioning under the direct guidance and the direct influence of the Supreme. And the body itself knows it; all the same it is not amusing to have pain here or pain there, or to have this or that get out of order, but it knows. And when that point has arrived at a certain degree of transformation, one passes on to another point, then another, then yet another; so nothing is done, no work is done definitively until... everything is ready. Then the same work has to be begun again on a higher or vaster level or with greater intensity or more in detail (that depends upon the case), until the whole is brought to a point homogeneous and ready in a similar way.

As I see it, it is moving as fast as it can, but it takes a long time. And everything is a question of changing the habit. The entire automatic habit of thousands of years has to be changed into a conscious action directly guided by the supreme Consciousness.

One is inclined to say that it is much longer and much more difficult because one is surrounded by people and one acts in the world, but if one were not in such conditions, many things would be forgotten, many. Many things would not be done. There are all kinds of vibrations that have no affinity with this aggregate¹ and which would never have the occasion

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to touch the transforming Force if I were not in contact with everyone.

It is very evident—it is very evident—that one is placed in the best of conditions and has the maximum possibilities for action... when one wants it sincerely.

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18 May 1966

You have heard about those drugs?¹ Have you seen any pictures?... I have. People are thrust without the least defence into the lowest vital, and according to their nature they find it either frightful or marvellous. For example, the cloth covering a cushion or a chair suddenly takes on a wondrous beauty. This lasts for about two or three hours. Naturally, they are completely out of their senses the whole time. And the pity of it is that people call these "spiritual experiences", and there is nobody to tell them that this has nothing to do with spiritual experience.

Some time ago I received a letter from someone who told me he had taken these drugs, and he said he had had terrible visions, that the walls of his room were alive with thousands of evil and desperate faces which persecuted him till nightfall. There you are!

And so this gave me yet another proof.... I saw pictures in Life—there were some photographs—it was as though you had entered a madhouse. For these are images registered in the subconscient—images of thoughts, images of sensations, images of feelings, registered in the subconscient—which become objective, which come up to the surface and become objective. Thus they give the exact picture of what is within.

For instance, if you have the feeling or thought that someone is wicked or ridiculous or does not like you, in short, ideas of this kind—generally all this comes up in dream, but here you are not asleep and you have the dream!—they come to play the game you have thought of; what you have thought of them comes back upon you in their form. So this is an indication: for those who see happy, amiable, beautiful images, this means that within, everything is going on quite well (vitally), but for those

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who see terrifying or evil things, or things of that sort, it means that the vital is not pretty.

Yes, but isn't there an objective vital, where these visions have no relation with our own subconscient?

Yes, there is, but it hasn't the same character.

Not the same character?

One cannot know it unless one goes into the vital fully conscious—conscious of his own vital and conscious in the vital world as one is conscious in the physical world. One goes there consciously. It is not a dream, it hasn't the nature of a dream; it is like an activity, an experience, and it is quite different.

But there do exist also these vital worlds where one is persecuted, terrible worlds, worlds of torture and persecution, isn't it so?

Ninety per cent subjective.

Ninety per cent subjective. For more than a year, regularly, every night, at the same hour and in the same way, I used to enter the vital to do some special work there. This was not due to my own will: I was destined to do it. It was something I had to do. Now, for instance, this entry into the vital has been often described: there is a passage where beings are posted to keep you from entering (much has been said about these things in books of occultism). Well, I know by an experience, not casual, but repeated and understood, that this opposition or this malevolence is ninety per cent psychological, in the sense that if you do not anticipate it or fear it, or that there isn't something in you that fears the unknown nor has all these movements of apprehension and so forth, then it is like a shadow across a picture or the projection of an image: it has no concrete reality.

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I have had, it is true, one or two real vital battles in going to the rescue of someone who had gone astray. And twice I have received blows, and the next morning when I woke up there was the mark (Mother touches her right eye). Well, in these two cases, I know it was something in me—not any fear, I have never been afraid there, but because I anticipated it. The idea that "this could very well happen" and the fact that I was expecting it, made the blow come. I knew it for certain. And if I had been in what may be called my "normal state", of inner certitude, this could not have touched me, it could not. And I had had this apprehension because an occultist whom I knew, had lost an eye in a vital fight and she had told me about it; and so (Mother laughs), that gave me the idea that this was possible, because it had happened to her! But when I am in my own state—I cannot even say that, it is not "personal", it is a way of being—when one is in the true state, when one is a conscious being and has the true way of being, this cannot touch one.

It is like the experience of meeting an enemy and wanting to strike him, and then the blows do not go home and all that you do has no effect—it is always subjective. I have had every proof, every proof.

But then, what is objective?

There are worlds, there are beings, there are powers, they have their own existence; but what I mean is that their relation with the human consciousness depends upon this human consciousness for the form they take.

It is as with the gods, my child, it is the same thing. All these beings of the Overmind, all these gods, the relation with them, the form of these relations, depend upon the human consciousness. You may be... It has been said, "Men are cattle for the gods", but if men accept to be cattle. There is in the essence of human nature a sovereignty over all things which is spontaneous

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and natural, when it is not falsified by a certain number of ideas and so-called knowledge.

One could say that man is the all-powerful master of all the states of being of his nature, but that he has forgotten to be this.

His natural state is to be all-powerful—he has forgotten to be this.

In this state of forgetfulness, everything becomes concrete, yes, in the sense that one may have a mark left on the eye; it may translate itself like this, but it is because... because one has allowed it to happen.

It is the same thing with the gods. They can govern your life and torment you a lot (they can help you a lot also), but their power, in relation to you, to the human being, is the power you give them.

This is something I learnt gradually over several years. But now I am sure of it.

Naturally, in the evolutionary curve, it was necessary for man to forget his omnipotence, because it had simply puffed him up with pride and vanity, and so had become completely distorted; and he had to be made to feel that many things were stronger and more powerful than he. But essentially this is not true. It is a necessity of the curve of progress, that's all.

Man is potentially a god. He believed himself an actual god. He needed to learn that he was nothing better than a poor little worm crawling on the earth, and so life scraped, scraped, scraped him in every way until he had... not understood, but at least felt a bit. But as soon as he takes the right stand, he knows that he is potentially a god. Only, he must become this, that is, overcome all that is not this.

This relationship with the gods is extremely interesting.... As long as man stands dazzled, lost in admiration of the power, beauty, accomplishments of these divine beings, he is their slave. But when these become for him different ways of being of the Supreme and nothing more, and himself yet another way of being of the Supreme, which he must become, then the relation

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changes and he is no longer their slave—he is not their slave.

Then the only objectivity is the Supreme.

There, you have said it, my child. It is this. It is exactly this.

If the word "objectivity" is taken to mean "real independent existence"—self-existence, independent and real—there is only the Supreme.

Nevertheless, there is something disquieting about this almost total subjectivity.

Ah, why?

One wonders what is real, what one really comes across? Isn't everything a tissue of imagination? This is rather disquieting.

But when one has the positive experience of the one and only existence of the Supreme and that all is only the Supreme playing to Himself, instead of being something disquieting or unpleasant or troubling, it is on the contrary a sort of total security.

The one reality is the Supreme. And all this is a game He plays to Himself. I find this much more comforting than the opposite view.

And after all, this is the only certitude that all this may become something marvellous; otherwise...

And this too depends altogether on the stand one takes. A complete identification with the game as a game, as something self-existent and independent, is probably necessary in the beginning, in order to play the game properly. But there's a moment when one reaches precisely this detachment and so complete a disgust for all the falsehood of existence, that it is no longer tolarable unless one sees it as the inner play of the Lord in Himself.

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And then one feels this absolute and perfect freedom which makes the most marvellous possibilities become real, and all the most sublime things imaginable are realisable.

(Mother enters into contemplation.)

You will see, there is a moment when one cannot bear oneself or life unless one takes the attitude that it is the Lord who is everything. You see, this Lord, how many things He possesses, He plays with all this—He plays, He plays at changing the positions. And so, when one sees this, this whole, one feels the illimitable marvel, and that all our most wonderful aspirations, all these are quite possible and will even be surpassed. Then one is comforted. Otherwise, existence... it is inconsolable. But like this, it becomes charming. I shall tell you about this one day.

When one feels the unreality of life, the unreality of life when compared with a reality which is certainly beyond, above, but at the same time within life, then, at that moment... "Ah, yes, at last this, it is true—at last this, it is true and deserves to be true. This is the realisation of all possible splendours, all possible marvels, yes, of all possible felicities, all possible beauties, yes, this; otherwise..."

I have come to that!

And then, I feel as though I still have one foot here, one foot there, which is not a very comfortable position, because... because one would wish that there be nothing but That.

The present way of being is a past which truly should no longer be there. While the other: "Ah! At last! At last! It is for this that there is a world."

And everything else remains quite as concrete and real—it does not become hazy! It is just as concrete, just as real, but... but it becomes divine, because... because it is the Divine. It is the Divine who plays.

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28 September 1966

Why is there suffering? How to cure suffering?

For a long time quite recently, that is to say, for days together, there was a very acute, very intense, very clear perception that the action of the Force translated itself externally by what we call "suffering" because that is the only kind of vibration which can pull Matter out of its inertia.

The supreme Peace, the supreme Calm are deformed and disfigured into inertia and into tamas, and precisely because this was the deformation of true Peace and Calm, there was no reason why it should change! A certain vibration of awakening—of reawakening—was necessary to come out of this tamas, that could not pass directly from tamas to Peace; something was needed to shake the tamas, and that is translated externally by suffering.

I am speaking here of physical suffering, because all the other sufferings—vital, mental, emotional sufferings—are due to a wrong working of the mind, and these... may simply be classed together as Falsehood, that's all. But physical suffering gives me the impression of a child being beaten, because here, in Matter, Falsehood has become ignorance; that is to say, there is no bad will—no bad will is there in Matter, all is inertia and ignorance: complete ignorance of the Truth, ignorance of the Origin, ignorance of the Possibility and ignorance even of what is to be done in order not to suffer physically. This ignorance is everywhere in the cells, and it is only the experience, the experience of what is translated in this rudimentary consciousness as suffering, which can awaken, bring forth the need to know and to cure, and the aspiration to transform oneself.

It has become a certainty, because in all the cells there is born the aspiration, which is becoming more and more intense and

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which wonders at the resistance; but they have observed that whenever something goes wrong in the working (that is to say, instead of being supple, spontaneous, natural, the working becomes a painful effort, a struggle against something which takes the appearance of a bad will, but is only a reticence that does not understand), at that moment, the intensity of the aspiration, of the call, is tenfold, becomes constant. The difficulty is to remain at that state of intensity. Generally everything falls back, I cannot say into a somnolence, but a kind of relaxation: you take things easy; and it is only when the inner disorder becomes painful that the intensity grows and remains permanent. For hours—hours together—without slackening, the call, the aspiration, the will to be united with the Divine, to become the Divine, is maintained at its maximum. Why? Because there was externally what is called a physical disorder, a suffering. Otherwise, when there is no suffering, from time to time one soars up, then one falls back into a slackening; again another time one soars up once more... there is no end to it. That lasts eternally. If we want things to go fast (relatively fast according to the rhythm of our life), this smack of the whip is necessary. I am convinced of it, because as soon as you are within your inner being you look upon that with contempt (as regards oneself).

But then, all of a sudden, when there comes this true Compassion of the Divine Love, and when one sees all these things that appear so horrible, so abnormal, so absurd, this great pain which is upon all beings and even upon all things... then there takes birth in this physical being the aspiration to soothe, to cure, to remove that. There is in Love, at its Origin, something which is translated constantly as the intervention of Grace: a force, a sweetness, something like a vibration of solace spread everywhere, but which an illumined consciousness can direct, concentrate on some points. And it is there, there itself that I saw the true use one can make of thought: thought serves as a kind of channel to carry this vibration from place to place, wherever it is necessary. This force, this vibration of sweetness is there in a

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static way upon the world, pressing in order to be received, but it is an impersonal action. And thought—illumined thought, surrendered thought, thought which is no longer anything but an instrument, which tries no longer to initiate things, which is satisfied with being moved by the higher Consciousness—thought serves as an intermediary to establish a contact, a relation, and to enable this impersonal Force to act wherever it is necessary, upon definite points.

It may be said in an absolute way that an evil always carries its own remedy. One might say that the cure of any suffering coexists with the suffering. So, instead of seeing an evil "useless" and "stupid" as it is generally thought to be, you see that the progress, the evolution which has made the suffering necessary—which is the cause of the suffering and the very reason for its existence—attains the intended result; and at the same time the suffering is cured, for those who are able to open themselves and receive. The three things—suffering as a means of progress, progress, and the cure of suffering—are coexistent, simultaneous; that is to say, they do not follow each other, they are there at the same time.

If, at the moment when the transforming action creates a suffering, there is in that which suffers the necessary aspiration and opening, the remedy also is taken in at the same time, and the effect is total, complete: transformation, with the action necessary to obtain it, and, at the same time, cure of the false sensation produced by the resistance. And the suffering is replaced by... something which is not known upon this earth, but which is akin to joy, well-being, trust and security. It is a super-sensation, in a perfect peace, and which is obviously the only thing that can be eternal.

This analysis expresses very imperfectly what one would call the "content" of Ananda.

I believe it is something that has been felt, experienced, partially and in a very fleeting manner, through all the ages, but which has just begun to concentrate and almost concretise itself

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upon earth. But physical Matter, in its cellular form, has, one cannot say fear or anxiety, but a kind of apprehension of new vibrations, and this apprehension naturally takes away from the cells their receptivity and assumes the appearance of uneasiness—it is not suffering, but an uneasiness. When, however, this apprehension is counterbalanced and cured by aspiration and the will for total surrender and by the act of total surrender, then this sort of apprehension, having disappeared, becomes a supreme well-being.

All this, they are as though microscopic studies of the phenomena of consciousness, free from mental intervention. The necessity of using words to express oneself brings this mental intervention, but in the experience it does not exist. And it is very interesting, because the pure experience has a content of truth, of reality, which disappears as soon as the mind intervenes. There is a savour of true reality which altogether escapes expression because of that. It is the same difference as between an individual and his portrait, a fact and the story told. It is like that. But it is much more subtle.

And then, to come back to what we were saying just now, when one is conscious of this Force—this Force, this Compassion in its essential reality—and when one sees how it can act through the conscious individual, one has the key to the problem.

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30 September 1966

This talk begins with Mother's comments on the following letter of Sri Aurobindo.

"... although St. Paul had remarkable mystic experiences and, certainly, much profound spiritual knowledge (profound rather than wide, I think)—I would not swear to it that he is referring to the supramentalised body (physical body). Perhaps to the supramental body or to some other luminous body in its own space and substance, which he found sometimes as if enveloping him and abolishing this body of death which he felt the material envelope to be. This verse¹ like many others is capable of several interpretations and might refer to a quite supraphysical experience. The idea of a transformation of the body occurs in different traditions, but I have never been quite sure that it meant the change in this very matter. There was a yogi sometime ago in this region who taught it, but he hoped when the change was complete, to disappear in light. The Vaishnavas speak of a divine body which will replace this one when there is the complete siddhi. But, again, is this a divine physical or supraphysical body? At the same time there is no obstacle in the way of supposing that all these ideas, intuitions, experiences point to, if they do not exactly denote, the physical transformation."²

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It is strange, this was the very subject of my meditations these days—not deliberate, they are imposed from above. Because through the entire passage from the plant to the animal and from the animal to man (especially from the animal to man), essentially the differences in form are minimal; the true transformation lies in the intervention of another agent of consciousness. All the differences between the life of the animal and the life of man come from the intervention of the Mind; but the substance is essentially the same and it obeys the same laws of formation and construction. For example, there is not much difference between a calf that is formed in the womb of the cow and the child that is formed in the womb of the mother. There is a difference, that of the intervention of the Mind; but if we look at a physical being, that is to say, visible as the physical is visible now and having the same density (for example, a body having no need of circulation, or of bones—particularly these two: the skeletons and blood circulation), it is difficult to conceive. And as long as it is like that, with this circulation of the blood, this action of the heart, one could imagine—one can imagine—by a power of the Spirit, the renewal of force, of energy, through means other than food; this is conceivable; but the rigidity, the solidity of the body—how is that possible without the skeleton?... In that case, this would be a transformation infinitely greater than that from the animal to man; this would be a passage from man to a being who would not be built in the same manner, who would no longer function in the same manner, who would be like the condensation and concretisation of "something".... Up to now, that corresponds to nothing we have yet seen physically, unless the scientists have found something I do not know about.

One can conceive of a light or a new force giving to the cells a kind of spontaneous life and spontaneous force.

Yes, that is what I say, food can disappear; that one can conceive.

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But the whole body could be animated by this force. The body could remain supple, for instance. Even retaining its bone-structure, it could remain supple, have the suppleness of a child.

But the child because of that cannot remain standing! He cannot exert himself. What will replace the bone-structure, for instance?

It could be the same elements, but having suppleness—elements whose firmness would not come from hardness but from the force of light, no?

Yes, that is possible.... Only, what I mean to say is that perhaps the thing will be done through a large number of new creations. For instance, the passage from man to this being will perhaps be accomplished through all kinds of other intermediaries. It is the leap, you understand, that seems to me tremendous.

I conceive very well a being who could, by spiritual power, the power of his inner being, absorb the necessary forces, renew himself and remain always young; that one conceives very well, even for giving a certain suppleness so as to be able to change the form, if need be. But the total disappearance of this system of construction immediately—immediately from the one to the other—that seems to be... that seems to require stages.

Evidently, unless something happens (which we are obliged to call a "miracle", because one cannot understand how) how can a body like ours become a body wholly built and moved by a higher force and without a material support? This (Mother holds the skin of her hand between her fingers), how can this change into this other thing?... That appears impossible.

That appears miraculous, but...

Yes, in all my experiences I understand very well the possibility of no longer having the need for food, the disappearance of all

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this process (for example, changing the method of absorption, that is possible), but how to change the structure?

But that does not seem to me impossible.

That does not seem to you impossible?

No, perhaps it is imagination, but I imagine very well a spiritual power entering into it and producing a kind of luminous inflation, and all this suddenly blooming like a flower. This body, shrivelled up towards itself, opens out, becomes radiant, supple, luminous.

Supple, plastic, yes, that one can conceive, it can become plastic; that is to say, the form will not be fixed as now. All that one can conceive, but...

But I see it very well like a kind of luminous blooming: the Light must have this force. And it destroys in no way the present structure.

But visible? Which one would be able to touch?

Yes, only, it is like an opening out. What was closed opens like a flower, that's all. But it is always the structure of the flower, only it is wholly opened and it is luminous, no?

(Mother shakes her head and remains silent for a moment.) I have not had the experience, I do not know.

I am absolutely convinced, because I have had experiences which proved it to me, that the life of this body—the life which makes it move and change—can be replaced by a force; that is to say, one can create a kind of immortality, and the wear and tear can also disappear. These two things are possible: the

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power of life can come and the wear and tear can disappear. And that can come psychologically, through a total obedience to the divine Impulsion, which enables one to have at each moment the force that is needed, to do the thing that is needed—all that, all that, these are certitudes; it is not a hope, it is not an imagination: these are certitudes. Well, one must educate and slowly transform, change one's habits. It is possible, all that is possible. But only, how long would it take to do away with the necessity (let us take this problem only) of the skeleton? That seems to me to be a matter still very far away. That is to say, many intermediary stages will be necessary. Sri Aurobindo said that life could be prolonged indefinitely. That, yes. But we are not yet built with something that wholly escapes dissolution, the necessity of dissolution. The bones are very durable, they can even last a thousand years if they are in favourable conditions, it is understood; but that does not mean immortality in principle. You understand what I mean?

No. You believe that it must be a non-physical substance?

I do not know if it is non-physical, but it is a physical that I do not know! And it is not the substance as we know it now, particularly not the construction that we know now.

I do not know, but if it must be a physical body, as Sri Aurobindo has said; it seemed to me (but perhaps it is day-dreaming) that it might be like a lotus-bud for example; our present body is like a lotus-bud that is quite small, closed, hard; and it opens out, it becomes a flower.

Yes, but that, my child, that is...

What cannot this Light do with the elements that it has? They are the same things, the same elements, but transfigured.

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But vegetable things are not immortal.

No, it was only a comparison.

Well, yes!

There is this question only. Perpetual change, that I conceive; I could even conceive of a flower that does not fade, but it is this principle of immortality... That is to say, in essence, a life which escapes from the necessity of renewing itself: that it is the eternal Force which manifests itself directly and eternally, and yet it should be this, a physical body (Mother touches her skin with her fingers).

I understand very well a progressive change and that one could make of this substance something which might renew itself from within to the outside and eternally—and that, that would be immortality; but only, it seems to me that between what is now, as we are, and this other mode of life, there have to be many stages. Well, these cells, with all the consciousness and experience they have now, if you ask them, for example, "Is there anything that you cannot do?", they will answer in their sincerity, "No, what the Lord wills, I can do." This is their state of consciousness. But in appearance it is otherwise. The personal experience is this: whatever I do with the Presence of the Lord, I do without effort, without difficulty, without fatigue, without waste, like this (Mother indicates a wide harmonious rhythm); only it is still open to all the influences from outside and the body is obliged to do things that are not directly the expression of the supreme Impulsion; from there come the fatigue, the friction.... So, a supramental body suspended in a world that is not the earth—it is not that!

No.

Something is needed that has the power to resist the contagion. Man cannot resist the contagion of the animal, he cannot, he

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is in constant relation. Well, this being, how will he do it?... It would seem, for a long time—for a long time—he will still be subjected to the laws of contagion.

I do not know, but it does not seem to me impossible.

No?

I feel that this Power of Light being there, what can touch it?

But all the world will disappear! It is that, is it not?

When That comes, when the Lord is there, there is not one in a thousand who would not be frightened. And not in the reasoning, not in the thought: like that, in the substance. Then supposing, supposing that it is so, that a being becomes the condensation and expression, a formula of the supreme Power, the supreme Light—what would happen!

Well, that is the whole problem.

Yes.

Because I do not see the difficulty of transformation in itself. It seems to me rather the difficulty of the world.

If everything could be transformed at the same time, that would be all right, but it is not obviously like that. If one being was transformed all alone...

Yes, that would be unbearable, perhaps.

Yes.

My feeling (it is a kind of feeling-sensation) is that there should be intermediary stages.

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And then, when you see how man had to fight against the whole of Nature in order to exist, you have the feeling that these beings—those who will understand them, who will help them—will have with them a relation of devotion, attachment, service, as animals have for men. But those who will not love them... they will be dangerous beings. I remember, once I had a very clear vision of the precarious situation of these new beings, and I had said (it was before 1956, before the descent of the supramental power), I had said, "The Supramental will first manifest itself in its aspect of Power, because it will be indispensable for the safety of the beings." And indeed it is Power that descended first—Power and Light: Light that gives Knowledge and Power.

It is a thing that I am feeling more and more: the necessity of intermediate periods.... It is quite evident that something is in the process of happening, but it is not the "something" that has been seen and foreseen and which will be the culmination; it is one of the stages that is going to come about, it is not the culmination.

Sri Aurobindo also has said that first of all there will come the power to prolong life at will (it is much more subtle and wonderful than that), but that is a state of consciousness which is in the process of being established; it is a kind of relation, and of constant, established contact with the supreme Lord; and that abolishes the sense of wear and tear and replaces it by an extraordinary flexibility, an extraordinary plasticity. But the state of spontaneous immortality is not possible—not possible, at least for the present. This structure must change into something other than this; and in order to change into something other than this—in the way things are happening, it will take long. It may go faster than in the past, but even admitting that the movement rushes forward , even then it will take time (according to our notion of time). And what is, besides, quite worth noticing, is that one must change one's sense of time if one is to be in the state of consciousness where wearing out does not

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exist; one enters into a state where time no longer has the same reality. It is something else. It is very special, it is an uncountable present. Even this habit that one has, of thinking beforehand or of foreseeing what is going to happen, is a stumbling-block, is a clinging to the old manner of being.

So many, so many habits to change.

The integral realisation will come about only when one can be divine spontaneously. Oh! To be divine spontaneously, without turning to see that one is so, having passed beyond the stage where one wants to be so.

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11 January 1967

A disciple complained that people took Mother's time with questions often useless, while less and less time was left for her to attend to apparently more important work.Mother commented:

It has to be like that, since it is like that.

It is perhaps a lesson (it is an indication), but it has a purpose. The lesson that I have to understand, I am trying to understand. I am learning to be patient, oh! such a patience.... Always there are revolts, insults, all that. For me it is absolutely zero and sometimes it is even amusing. When I am in my own condition, the true condition of compassion, it changes nothing, it does not raise even a small ripple on the surface, nothing.

The question was put to me yesterday; I was asked if insult, the feeling of being insulted, and what is called in English "self-respect" (something corresponding a little to amour-propre in French) had any place in the sadhana. Of course, there is no place for it, it is well understood! But I have seen the movement, it was very clear, I have seen that without ego, when the ego is not there, there cannot be this sort of ruffle in the being. Because I went back far into the past to a time when I still used to feel it (many years ago), but now, it is no longer something foreign even, it is something impossible. The whole being, and even (it is strange), even the physical constitution does not understand what that means. It is the same thing when there is materially a shock (Mother shows a scratch on her elbow), like that for example; it is no longer felt as one feels an injury, it is no longer felt like that. Most often there is nothing at all, it passes absolutely unperceived in the whole; but when something is felt, it is only the impression—a very, very gentle, very intimate impression of a help seeking to make itself felt,

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a lesson that is to be learnt. But not as one does in the mental way in which there is always a stiffening; it is not that, it is immediately a sort of offering of the being, which gives itself in order to learn. I am speaking of the cells. It is very interesting. Evidently if you mentalise, you must say that it is the feeling or consciousness of the divine Presence in all things and that the mode—the mode of contact—derives from the state in which you are.

Yes, that is the experience of the body.

And in individuals, when there is any knock or shock, always the only perception is a clear vision of the ego—the ego manifesting itself. They say, "It is the other." I would not say, "Oh! That one was angry" or "Oh! This one... ", no, it is his ego; not even his ego: the ego, the ego principle—the ego principle which still intervenes. It is very interesting, because the ego has become for me a kind of impersonal entity, while for everybody else it is the acute sense of his personality! Instead of that, it is a kind of way of being (terrestrial or human, one can say), which is in greater or lesser quantity here or there or there, giving each one the illusion of personality. It is very interesting.

Yes, but the trouble is that others do not learn their lesson, so...

Oh! If they learnt their lesson everything would change very quickly.

So the result is that you are invaded, engulfed.

Cannot!

All your time is taken, all your...

They cannot engulf me! (Mother laughs) I am too big!

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Materially, all the same, you are overwhelmed.

I have noticed that if I resist, it becomes bad. If I have the feeling of fluidity, there are no more knocks. It is the same thing as for this scratch (Mother shows her elbow.) If you stiffen and things resist, you get a knock. It is like men who know how to fall: they fall, they break nothing; whereas men who do not know how to fall, just a little fall and they break something. It is the same thing. One must learn how to be... the perfect unity. To correct, to straighten, is still resistance. So what will happen if the invasion, as you say, continues? It will be amusing, let us see! (Mother laughs.) As others are not in the same state, perhaps they will be vexed, but I am helpless! (Mother laughs.)

One must always laugh, always. The Lord laughs, and He laughs, and His laugh is so nice, so nice, so full of love. It is a laugh that envelops you with an extraordinary sweetness.

This too men have deformed—they have deformed everything (Mother laughs).

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21 January 1967

A somewhat undefinable thing has happened.

The body had the habit of performing its functions automatically, as a natural thing; that is to say, for it there was no question of their importance or usefulness. It had not, for example, this mental or vital view of things, of what is "important" or what is "interesting" and what is not. That did not exist. And then, now that the cells are becoming conscious, they stand back, as it were (Mother makes a gesture of withdrawal), they look at themselves, they are beginning to look at themselves in action, and they are very much questioning to what purpose all that is. And then, an aspiration: "How? How should it be truly? What is our function, our utility, our basis? Yes, what is our basis and our standard of life?" One might say, translating once more in mental terms: "How will one be when one is divine? What difference will there be? What is the divine way of being?" And there, what speaks is all this sort of physical basis, which is entirely made up of thousands of small things, absolutely indifferent in themselves, which have no reason for existing except as a whole, as a totality, as a support for another action; but in themselves they seem to have no meaning. And then, once more it is the same thing: a kind of receptivity, of silent opening allowing the thing to enter; and a very subtle perception of a way of being that would be luminous, harmonious.

This way of being is still very undefinable; but in this quest, there is a constant perception (translated by a vision) of a multi-coloured light, of all the colours—all the colours, not in layers but as though (gesture of dotting) it was a grouping of all the colours by dots. It is now two years (perhaps a little more, I do not remember) since I met the Tantriks. I was in relation with them and I began to see that Light, and I thought that it was the "tantrik light", the tantrik way of seeing the material world.

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But now I see it constantly, associated with everything, and it seems to be what might be called a "perception of true Matter". All possible colours are joined together without being mixed up (same gesture of dotting), and joined together by luminous dots. Everything is as if made of that. And this seems to be the true way of being—I am not yet sure, but in any case, it is a way of being much more conscious.

And I see it all the while: with open eyes, closed eyes, all the while. And you have a strange (for the body), a strange perception, at once of subtleness, of penetrability, if one may say so, of suppleness of form and positively not of an eradication but a considerable diminution of the rigidity of forms—eradication of rigidity, not eradication of forms: a suppleness in the forms. And the body itself, when for the first time it felt this in one part or another, had the impression—it was a bit lost, as it were—the impression that something was escaping. But if one keeps quiet and waits quietly, that is simply replaced by a sort of plasticity, of fluidity, which seems to be a new way for the cells.

It would probably be what materially must replace the physical ego; that is to say, the rigidity of the form appears to be yielding to this new way of being. But, well, we know the first contact is always very "surprising", but gradually the body gets accustomed. It is the moment of the passage from one way to the other which is a little difficult. That is done very progressively, and yet there is a moment (the moment of the passage), a few seconds that are... the least that one can say is, "unexpected".

All the habits are in this way undone. And for all the functions it is the same: for blood circulation, for digestion, for respiration—for all the functions. And at the moment of the passage, it is not that the one suddenly replaces the other, but it is a fluid state between the two, and it is difficult. It is only this great Faith, wholly immovable, luminous, constant, immutable—the faith in the real existence of the supreme Lord, in the sole real existence of the Supreme—which enables everything to continue to be the same in appearance.

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They are like the big waves of all the ordinary movements, the ordinary ways of being, the ordinary habits which are repulsed, and come back and try to engulf, and once again they are pushed back. And I see that for years the body and the whole bodily consciousness used to fall back into the old way, as a safety, as a means of safety, to escape. And now it has agreed not to do it any more, but to accept on the contrary: "Well, if it is dissolution, it is dissolution"—but it accepts whatever will be.

In the mind, when the thing happens in the physical mind (it was years ago, but I had observed it even then), it is this which makes people feel that they are going mad, which frightens them; and with the fright things come to pass, and then they hustle back into the ordinary common sense to get away from it. It is the equivalent—it is not the same thing—but it is the equivalent of what happens in the material: you feel that all the normal stability is disappearing. Well, for a long time—a long time—there was this falling back into the habit; and then you are quite at ease, you begin again. And now they do not want it any more: "Whatever happens, we will see"—the great adventure.

"How will we be—how will we be? How..." Yes, the cells saying, "How should we be? How will we be?"...

It is interesting.

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4 March 1967

This problem of transformation, I see more and more clearly that there are three approaches to it, three ways of proceeding, and to be complete the three must be combined.

One, naturally the most important one, is the way that may be called "spiritual", which is that of contact with the Consciousness—Love-Consciousness-Power, yes, it is that; it is these three aspects: the supreme Love-Consciousness-Power, and the contact, the identification: to render all the material cells capable of receiving That and expressing That—to be That.

Of all the means, this is the most powerful, and the most indispensable.

There is the occult way, which makes all the intermediary worlds intervene. There is a very detailed knowledge of all the powers and personalities, all the intermediary regions, and it uses all that. It is there that one makes use of the divinities of the Overmind. This is in the second way. Shiva, Krishna, all the aspects of the Mother form part of this second way.

And then there is the higher intellectual approach, which is the projection of a spirit transcending the scientific, which seizes the problem from below, and which has its importance also. From the viewpoint of detailed handling, this approach diminishes the approximations, brings a more direct and precise action.

If the three can be combined, then evidently the thing will go faster.

Without the first nothing is possible, without it the others are even illusory: they lead nowhere, you turn round and round indefinitely. But if you clothe the first with the other two, then I think the action becomes much more precise and direct and rapid.

This is the result of the "studies" these days.

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7 March 1967

I have received a few questions from grown-up students (not small children, but grown-ups) on the subject of "death", of the conditions of death, why there are so many accidents at the present moment, etc. I have already answered two persons. Naturally, the answers were on the mental level, but with an attempt to go beyond.

It is this kind of mental logic which wants, yes, things to be deduced from one another in accordance with this logic, so they arrive at questions... that are impossible.¹

It is nothing very new, but it is a widening of the consciousness, and just recently all these questions came into the atmosphere and gave first of all the feeling that man knows nothing about death—he does not know what it is, he does not know what happens, he has built all kinds of hypotheses, but there is nothing certain. And by pushing ahead, by insisting in this way by pushing, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing which is really death.

There is only an appearance, an appearance based on a limited view. But there is no radical change in the vibration of the consciousness. This came as an answer to a kind of anxiety

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(there was a kind of anxiety in the cells in not knowing what death truly was—just that, a kind of anxiety) and the answer was very clear and persistent: it is that the consciousness alone can know, for... for the importance given to the difference of condition is only a superficial importance based upon the ignorance of the phenomenon in itself. One who would be able to maintain a means of communication could say that for himself it makes no considerable difference.

But this is something that is being worked out. There are still areas that are not clear, there are details of experience that are missing. So it seems to me that it would be better to wait till the knowledge becomes more complete, because instead of saying an approximation with suppositions, it would be better to say the complete fact with the total experience. Therefore we put it off till later on.

But you say there is no difference.... When one is on the other side, does one continue to have or can one have the perception of the physical world?

Yes, yes, it is so.

The perception of beings of...

Yes, it is so.

Only, instead of having a perception... you come out of a kind of illusory state and of a perception that is a perception of appearances, but you have a perception; that is to say, there were moments when I had the perception, I could see the difference; only, the experience was not total (it was not total in the sense that it was interrupted by outward circumstances), so it is better to wait a little before speaking of it.

But the perception is there.

Not absolutely identical, but with an effectivity sometimes greater in itself; but it was not perceived truly from the other

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side. I do not know how to explain. I have had an example—not an example, but something lived, the full perception—of a person who lived for years with me, who has remained in wholly conscious contact after going out of the body (but going out of the body very materially), and who is not dissolved but is closely associated with another living being, and has continued the life of his own consciousness in this association. And all that—I cannot give the names or the facts, but it is as concrete as it can be. And this continues.

All this has been seen—I saw it long ago, but it came back as an illustration of the new consciousness, just this morning. Extraordinarily concrete in its effects: changing the capacities and movements of the consciousness of the other, and consciously—an absolutely conscious life. And it is the same consciousness that was conscious during the period when there was nobody at all and the presence was visible only in the vision at night.

There are others.

That one is very near and very intimate and it is why I could follow all the details.

But it is clear, precise and evident only with this new vision because, how to say?... I knew it—I knew it before, I knew it—but I saw it again with the new consciousness, the new way of seeing, and then the comprehension was total, the perception total, altogether concrete, with elements that were wholly missing—convincing elements—wholly missing in the first perception, which was a mental-vital knowledge. This was a knowledge of the consciousness of the cells.

But all that would be interesting only with all the facts (which cannot be given). So I would like to have a more complete, more "impersonal" experience, so to say, that is to say, which is not illustrated by facts, which is a vision of the totality of the process. Then only I shall be able to speak.

It will come.

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24 May 1967

Yesterday someone wrote to me asking: "After all, what is the Divine?" I answered. I told him that I was giving a reply to help him, but there could be a hundred which would all be good, one as good as another.

"The Divine is lived, but cannot be defined."

And then I added: but as you put to me the question, I answer: "The Divine is the absolute of perfection, eternal source of all that exists, of whom we become conscious progressively, all the while being Himself from all eternity."

Once someone told me also that it was for him something simply unthinkable. So I answered him: "No! That does not help you. You have only to think that the Divine is all (at the maximum, yes), all that we want to become in our highest, most luminous aspiration. All that we want to become, that is the Divine." He was so happy, he told me: "Oh! That way it becomes easy!"

But when you look—as you look coming out of the mental activity and as you look at the experience which you have—and you say to yourself: "How to say this? How to explain this?", then what is nearest, most accessible is this: into this "something" which we aspire to become, we put instinctively, spontaneously, all that we wish to be, all that we conceive of as most wonderful, all that is the object of an intense aspiration (intense and ignorant), all that. And with all that you come near to the "Something" and... Essentially, it is not by the thought that you have the contact; you have the contact through something identical in the being, which wakes up by the intensity of the aspiration. And then for oneself, as soon as this contact—this fusion—is obtained, even if only for a second, there is no longer any need to explain: it is something that imposes itself in an absolute way and that is outside and beyond all explanation.

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But in order to reach there, each one puts into it whatever guides him most easily.

And when one has the experience, at the moment of this fusion, this joining, it becomes evident to the consciousness that only the identical can know the identical and that therefore it is the proof that It is there (Mother points to the centre of the heart). It is a proof that It is there. And it is by the intensity of aspiration that this awakens.

When I received the question, it was altogether as if the person was telling me, "Yes, yes, all that is very good, but after all what is this that is the Divine?" Then I read his letter; there came a silence, a total silence, of everything, and as though a single look, a single look gathering together everything and wanting to see.... I remained in this way, looking, till the words came; then I wrote: "Here is one answer; there could be a hundred, one as good as another."

At the same time, when there was this look towards the "something" that needed definition, there was a great silence everywhere and a great aspiration (gesture as of a flame rising up), and all the forms which this aspiration took. It was very interesting... the story of the aspiration of earth... towards the wonderful Unknown which one wants to become.

And everyone—whoever was destined to make the joining—in his simplicity believes that the bridge he has followed is the only one. The result: religions, philosophies, dogmas, credos—battle.

Seen as a whole it is very interesting, very charming, with a Smile that looks out. Oh! this Smile... that looks out. This Smile, as though it were saying, "You make it so complicated and it could be so simple!"

To express it in a literary way, one might say: "Such complications for such a simple thing: to be oneself."

(Silence)

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And you, what do you think the Divine is?

I do not know, it is a question I never put to myself.

Neither do I! I have never put the question to myself. Because as soon as there was a need to know, there was spontaneously an answer. And an answer, not with words which one debates: an answer... something like that, a vibration. It is a thing almost constant now.

Naturally men create difficulties (I believe they must like them very much, because...) for everything, for the least thing there is always a world of difficulties. So one passes one's time saying: "Quiet, quiet, quiet—be calm." And the body itself lives in the midst of difficulties (it also seems to like them!), but all of a sudden the cells sing out their OM... spontaneously. And then it is as though a child's joy in all these cells which say (Mother, in a tone of wonder): "Ah yes! One is able to do that? One has the right to do that!" It is touching.

And the effect is immediate: this great Vibration, peaceful, all powerful.

As for me, if I was not under the constant pressure of all the wills around, I would say: "Why do you want to know what the Divine is? What does it matter to you? You have only to become it." But they do not understand a joke.

"I want to know what the Divine is."

"But no, it is altogether useless."

"Ah!"

They answer you with a scandalised look: "Ah! It isn't interesting?"

"You have no need to know: you have to become it."

For them, I mean the vast intellectual majority, they cannot conceive that one can do or be something without knowing what it is.

That also, one might say if one likes the joke: "It is only when one does not know that one is most divine."

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(Mother goes into contemplation.)

For those who like definitions, there is another way of answering to "What is the Divine?"... "A vastness, smiling and luminous."

And it is there, is it not? It is there.

After a few days.

I have something to add to what we said the other day about the Divine. Someone asks me: "And what is God?" It is about a text of Sri Aurobindo. Here it is:

"Love leads us from the suffering of division into the bliss of perfect union, but without losing that joy of the act of union which is the soul's greatest discovery and for which the life of the cosmos is a long preparation. Therefore to approach God by love is to prepare oneself for the greatest possible spiritual fulfilment."¹

It is in the context of the last phrase that I am asked: "What is God?" Therefore I said (I took up the word "God"): "It is the name man has given to all that surpasses him and dominates him, all that he cannot know, but to which he submits."

Instead of putting "to all that surpasses him", one might put "to that which surpasses him", because "all that" is debatable from the intellectual point of view. I mean there is a "something"—a something which is indefinable and inexplicable—and this something, man has always felt, dominates him. It transcends all possible understanding and it dominates him. And so the religions have given it a name; man has called him "God"; the English call him God; in another language he is called in another way, but finally it is that.

I do not give any definition purposely. Because the feeling of all my life has been that it is a word, and a word behind which

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people have put many very undesirable things... this idea of God, for example, who wants to be unique, as they say: "God is unique." But they feel it and they say it as Anatole France said it, I believe it is in the Révolte des Anges: "This God who wants to be the only one and all alone." That is the thing which had made me completely atheist, if one might say so, in my childhood; I did not accept a being who declared himself to be unique and all-powerful, whoever he might be. Even if he was unique and all-powerful (Mother laughs), he must not have the right to proclaim it! It was like this in my mind. I could give a discourse upon it for a full hour, to say how in each religion they confronted it.

In any case, I gave what seemed to me the most objective definition. And like the other day, in "What is the Divine?", I tried to give the impression of the Thing; here I wanted to fight against the use of the word, which for me is hollow, but dangerously hollow.

I remember a verse from Savitri which is very powerful and which says in a line all that wonderfully. It says: "The Nameless that saw God born."²

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24 June 1967

Many things to say, but... it is better to come to the end. It is a curve. Better to reach the end. It is too early to speak.

(After a silence) The movements of the body almost in their totality are habitual movements. Behind, there is the consciousness of the physical mind (what I call the "cellular mind"), which is itself constantly conscious of the divine Presence and is keen on accepting nothing but That; so a whole work is going on for changing, shifting the origin of the movements. I mean to say that instead of it just being automatically the habit, it should be automatically the divine Presence and Consciousness that causes the movement (Mother makes a gesture of pushing the Consciousness into the body).

But it is quite, quite inexpressible; that is to say, as soon as you try to express it, it is mentalised, it is no longer itself. That is why it is very difficult to express it. I cannot speak of it.

However, I seem to have told you not long ago of my observation of the habit and the taste for drama in the most material consciousness. That was the starting-point. As soon as it became conscious, that habit became, as it were, foreign, foreign to the true consciousness, and from then on the transfer has been going on.

It is a very delicate and difficult work.

It means fighting against a habit thousands of years old. It is the automatism of the material consciousness which is, yes, dramatic, almost catastrophic; sometimes dramatic, and dramatic with an imaginative conclusion which undoes the drama. But all that becomes much too concrete as soon as one expresses it. Better not to speak of it.

As soon as it is said, it becomes artificial.

And it is as though in order to replace this habit there was a kind of effort to create another(!) which is only an

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approximation. Does this state of consciousness, this way of being, this way of existing, of reacting, of expressing, point to or tend towards the Divine Manifestation? Is it in conformity with the urge towards the Divine Manifestation?... And the thought is silent, immobile, then the imagination does not work (all that, willingly), and the movement tries to be as sincere and as spontaneous as possible, under the influence of the divine Presence.... Words deform everything.

From time to time—from time to time, all of a sudden: the concrete experience, like a lightning flash—the experience of the Presence, the identification. But that lasts a few seconds and then it begins again as it was before.

It cannot be expressed.

Then Mother turns to the translation of two texts of Sri Aurobindo.

"That is a great secret of sadhana, to know how to get things done by the Power behind or above instead of doing all by the mind's effort."

It is exactly so.

"The importance of the body is obvious; it is because he has developed or been given a body and brain capable of receiving and serving a progressing mental illumination that man has risen above the animal. Equally, it can only be by developing a body or at least a functioning of the physical instrument capable of receiving and serving a still higher illumination that he will rise above himself and realise, not merely in thought and in his internal being but in life, a perfectly divine manhood. Otherwise either the promise of life is cancelled, its meaning annulled and earthly being can only realise Sachchidananda by abolishing itself, by shedding from it mind, life and

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body and returning to the pure Infinite, or else man is not the divine instrument, there is a destined limit to the consciously progressive power which distinguishes him from all other terrestrial existences and as he has replaced them in the front of things, so another must eventually replace him and assume his heritage."

I understand! I was busy with it all the while.

(Silence)

But Sri Aurobindo's conclusion is that it is not this (the body) which can change; it will be a new being.

No, he says if it is not able, it will be a new being.

No, I do not mean here in this text; I mean in the things he wrote subsequently.

?...

Besides, it is the same thing, because... can a body change?... And even so, it seems to be very difficult. It is not impossible. It is not impossible, but... it is such a tremendous labour that life is too short; and even there, there is something to change, yes—this habit of wearing out is a terrible thing.

Yes, but a "new being", from where would it come? Will it drop from the sky?

Of course not, just so! The more one looks... It won't come like that (Mother laughs), it will come evidently in the same way as man has come out of the animal. But the stages between the animal and man are missing. We think of it, we imagine it, we have rediscovered things, but to say the truth we were not

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present! We do not know how that happened. But that does not matter.... According to some, we can consciously begin to work out within us the transformation, in forming the child. It is possible; I do not say No. It is possible. And then this one must prepare a more transformed one and so on, several stages like that which will disappear even as the stages between the ape and man have disappeared?

Well, yes, it is the whole story of the process of human perfection.

You can call it as you like, yes. But a new being... as for us, we conceive, as you say, a new being as descending ready-made, prefabricated!... That is pure romance.

It is exactly what Sri Aurobindo also says. It must be built.

It would be after two or three—or four or ten or twenty, I do not know—intermediary beings that the new manner, the supramental manner of creating, will come.... But will it be necessary to have children? Will it not do away with the necessity of children to replace those who will be no longer there? For they will continue to exist indefinitely. They will transform themselves sufficiently to adapt to the new needs.

All that is very conceivable at a long distance of time.

Yes, a long distance.

But precisely you are there so that it may be at a short distance!

No, Sri Aurobindo did not view it at a short distance.

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Well, it must be yourself. At a short or at a long distance, it must be you who does it, in this life and in his body.

But, I see...

I am trying to do it—not by an arbitrary will, nothing of the kind; simply there is "Something" or Someone or a Consciousness or anything (I do not want to speak of it) which is using this (Mother's body) and trying to make something of it. That is to say, at the same time I am doing and I am witnessing, and the "I", I do not know where it is: it is not within there, it is not up there, it is not... I do not know where it is; it is for the necessity of language. There is "something" that is doing and it is witnessing at the same time, and at the same time it is the action that does it: the three.

Because the body itself now truly collaborates as much as it can—as much as it can—with a goodwill and an increasing power of endurance, and, in fact, the backward turn on oneself is reduced to a minimum (it is there, but like something that just touches from time to time, but it does not stay even for a few seconds). That, this backward turn on oneself, is altogether the atmosphere that is disgusting, repulsive, catastrophic. And it is like that, it is felt like that. And it is becoming more and more impossible, I see it, it is visible.... But there is still the weight of thousands of years of bad habits which may be called pessimistic, that is to say, expecting decline, expecting catastrophe, expecting... in fact, all these things, and it is that which is most difficult, ouf! to purify, to clarify, to throw out of the atmosphere. It is so much inside that it is altogether spontaneous. It is this which is the great, great obstacle, this kind of feeling of the inevitable decline.

Naturally, from the mental point of view, the whole earthly atmosphere is like that, but in the mind it has very little importance: a ray of light and it is swept away. But it is there within (Mother points to her body), it is this habit—this catastrophic habit—which is formidable, formidable to counteract. And it

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is indispensable that it should disappear so that the other may instal itself.

So it is a battle of every minute, every minute, all the while, all the while.

And then, you know, the being is not isolated, the body is not isolated; it is more or less a multitude, with degrees of proximity; but quite near, there are all those who are here, and it is the same problem—the same problem. Because what is acquired in the consciousness of this body is not acquired at all in the consciousness of others. That increases the labour.

The problem of mental and even vital contagion is, so to say, resolved, but the problem of material contagion still remains there.

And in this material consciousness, there is the material mind that has so marvellously responded here,¹ but it has not yet the power to assert itself spontaneously against what comes from outside, this perpetual contagion, constant, constant, of every minute.

(Long silence)

When all of a sudden the Contact becomes conscious and the sense of Identity comes, as I say, for a few seconds, but when it comes... it is like a hosanna of all the cells which say: "Oh! Yes, yes, it is true! So it is true..."

This comes perhaps a hundred times a day, but it does not stay.

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26 August 1967

Mother begins by commenting upon a question written by a disciple.

"Sweet Mother, it is said that always the good and the true triumph, but we see that often in life it is otherwise. The wicked win, seem somehow to be protected from suffering."

(Mother laughs, then remains silent.) People always confuse two ideas. It is from the universal and spiritual point of view that, not positively the "good" as men understand it, but the True, the Truth, will have the last word; it goes without saying. That is to say, finally the Divine will be victorious. That is what is said, what all who have lived a spiritual life have said—it is an absolute fact. Men, in translating it, say, "I am a good boy, I live in accordance with what I think to be true, therefore, all existence should be good for me." (Mother laughs) First of all, one's own appreciation of oneself is always doubtful, and then, in the world as it is now, all is mixed, it is not the Law of Truth that openly manifests itself to the half-blind human consciousness—it will not even understand it. I mean, to be more exact, that it is the supreme vision that is realising itself constantly, but its realisation in the mixed material world does not appear to the ignorant human sight as the triumph of good, what men call good and true. But (to say it in a joking way) it is not the fault of the Lord, it is the fault of men! That is to say, the Lord knows what he is doing, and men do not understand it.

In a world of truth, all would be just as it is now perhaps, but it would be seen differently.

Both. There would be a difference. It is the present ignorance

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and obscurity in the world that give a deforming appearance to the divine Action; and that naturally must tend to disappear; but it is also true that there is a way of seeing things which... one might say, which gives another meaning to their appearance—the two are there, like this (gesture of intermixture).

(Silence)

You always come back to this, that man's judgment is wrong—wrong because his vision of things is wrong, is incomplete—and necessarily this judgment must have wrong results.

The world is perpetually changing, perpetually; not for a second is it like itself, and the general harmony expresses itself more and more perfectly; therefore nothing can remain as it is and in spite of all appearances to the contrary, the whole is always constantly progressing; the harmony is becoming more and more harmonious, the truth becoming more and more true in the Manifestation. But to see that, one must see the whole, and man sees only... not even the human domain, but only his personal domain, quite small, quite small, microscopic—he cannot understand.

It is a double thing that is going on completing itself (same gesture of intermixture) and with a mutual action: as the Manifestation becomes more conscious of itself, its expression perfects itself, becomes also more true. The two movements go together.

(Silence)

It was one of the things that was seen very clearly the other day, when there was this Consciousness of Knowledge: when the Manifestation will have sufficiently emerged out of the Inconscient so that all this necessity of struggle, created by the presence of the Inconscient, becomes progressively more and more useless, it will disappear quite naturally, and progress, instead of

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being made through effort and struggle, will begin to be made harmoniously. That is what the human consciousness foresees as a divine creation upon earth—it will still be only one step. But for the present step, it is a kind of harmonious attainment that will change the universal progress (which is ceaseless) into a progress through joy and harmony instead of a progress through struggle and suffering.... But what was seen is that this feeling of insufficiency, of something that is not complete and is not perfect, that, one must foresee, will exist for a very long time—if the notion of time remains the same, that I do not know. But all change implies time, does it not? It may not be translated by time as we conceive it, but it does imply a succession.

All these so-called problems—all the while one receives, in this way, questions and questions and problems of the mind (all problems in the Ignorance, is it not so?)—problems for the earth-worm. As soon as you emerge up there, such problems do not exist any more. There are no more contradictions. Contradictions always come from the inadequacy of vision and the incapacity to see a thing from all points of view at the same time.

In any case, to bring the question down to earth, no sage at any time, I think, has ever said: "Be good, and all will go well with you externally"—because it is a stupidity. In a world of disorder, in a world of falsehood, to hope for that is not reasonable. But you can have, if you are sufficiently sincere and whole and entire in your way of being, you can have the inner joy, the full satisfaction, whatever the circumstances, and that nobody and nothing has the power to touch.

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30 August 1967

For the last several nights I have been passing almost the whole night, many hours, in a place which must certainly belong to the subtle physical and where the material life gets reorganised. It is vast—vast—the crowd is innumerable, but these are individualities, not a crowd; that is to say, I have to deal with each one of them. And then, it is as though at the same time there are documents and writing tables but no walls around! It is a curious place, a very curious place.

I have asked myself many a time whether it was the memory of physical forms that made me see this world in that way or whether it is really like that. At times there is no doubt, because it has a character altogether its own, but at other times there is a doubt and I ask myself if it is not in my active memory. Because I am very conscious at that time and everything is extremely natural, and indeed permanent: I find again the same things at the same place, sometimes with slight differences, but differences necessitated by action. That is to say, it is a coherent world, it is not a disorderly imagination. But to what extent are these forms the reflection of natural forms? To what extent are they like that or do we see them like that? I am not yet very sure. I had the same problem when I used to go into the Overmind and see the gods: I had always a kind of hesitation in knowing whether they are truly like that or whether we perceive them like that because of our physical habits.... There, after some time, I came to a conclusion; but here, physically...?

It is a curious thing: there are no doors, no windows, neither ceiling nor floor; all this exists in itself, it does not seem to obey the law of gravitation, that is to say, there is no magnetic attraction of the earth, and yet when one writes (Mother laughs) there seems to be a pen! And when one writes upon something, there seems to be a piece of paper; and when there are documents,

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they seem to be in dockets.... One feels that the substance is not the same, but the appearance is very close. And it is this appearance, and I am yet again putting the question to myself: "Is it because of our ordinary cerebral working that we put this appearance upon it or is it truly so?"

There I meet almost everybody. I told you, you are there very regularly and we work. You do not remember. There are others who remember, but their memory is (gesture of a slight twisting of the finger) just a little off the line; that is to say, it is not exactly the same as what I saw. So when they tell me about it, I have altogether the feeling that it is the transcription in their brain that made it so.... And the objective reality of the material world comes from this, that if you see the same object ten times, ten times it resembles itself, with differences that are reasonable, which could be differences due to usage, for example; but there also it is like this! And if you study carefully, even in the physical world two persons do not see things exactly in the same way. There, perhaps it is more accentuated, but it seems to be a similar phenomenon.... The explanation becomes very simple, very easy when you enter into the consciousness where the material reality itself becomes an illusion; it is illusory, it is not exact: the inner reality is more true. Then in that case, it is simple. It is perhaps only our mind that is astonished.

Take writing, for example. I have not observed in detail, but when one writes there, one seems to write much more easily. I do not know how to explain it, it takes much less time and things are noted down on paper—but is it really paper? It looks like paper, but things are noted down much more directly.... There is perhaps a similarity, as for example when you use a pen or a pencil: it is not exactly a pen or a pencil but something resembling it, which is... (how to say it?) the prototype or the principle of this object. But what I mean to say is that if we were still in the age of the quill or the pen that one dips in a liquid, probably I would see it like that! It is the essence or

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the principle of the thing that is translated in the memory by a similarity.

But it is an action. I know the time only when I come back, for I have made it a habit to notice the time whenever I come back to the material consciousness (I have a watch beside my bed and I look at it) and that is how I can say: "This lasted one hour, that lasted two hours." But there, one has not the sense of time, it is not the same sense—it is the content of the action that matters, and during those hours many, many things are done, many. And so I meet you there very regularly, but many others also, and I am at many places at the same time! And when a person tells me, "But I saw you last night, you did this and that", then up there somewhere, I say, "Yes, it is true", there is just a little (same gesture of twisting), just a little difference, but the essence of the thing is the same.

And I have noticed that these things that are quite near the physical disappear if you wake up all of a sudden, particularly if you stir while waking up, if you make a movement or if you turn on your side. It is only afterwards, if at some time I am very quiet and go within myself, then slowly I can again come in contact with that state. Therefore, it does not surprise me that the majority of people do not remember. Experiences in the vital, in the mental are remembered much more easily, but that which is quite close to the physical...

And it has such a character that if one kept the consciousness of it on waking up, one would look somewhat like a mad person. I had the experience of it just two days back and it has taught me a great deal—I looked, studied and studied until I understood. It was during my afternoon rest (I do not at all sleep in the afternoon, but I go like that into the inner consciousness) and I had fixed beforehand that I would wake up at such an hour, that is to say, I would get up. When it was time, I was deep in the midst of my action and the state of consciousness continued with my eyes open; and then, in that state of consciousness, there was... I cannot say "I", for it was not the same "I"—no, I

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am many persons at that moment—but the "I" of that moment had the habit of carrying a watch, a golden wrist-watch (not here materially, but up there) and had forgotten to put on the watch and looked for it and noticed: "Ah! I forgot to put on my watch. What has become of this watch ? Why did I forget?" And when I woke up (I do not carry a watch, you know) and came back to myself, the two consciousnesses were simultaneous and I said loudly, "Where is my watch? I have forgotten to put on my watch", and it is only when I said that (Mother laughs) that I became aware! So that made me reflect; I studied well, looked quietly, saw closely that at that moment the two consciousnesses are quite (Mother superimposes her two hands closely), quite simultaneous.

It is very interesting. Oh! There were all sorts of problems which have been solved by that experience. For example, the problem of many who are taken as mad, but who are simply in this subtle consciousness (same gesture of superimposition) which dominates at a given moment and which makes them say things that have no meaning here but have a very clear meaning there. And the consciousness is like this (gesture of superimposition, of almost melting together). This explains many cases of so-called madness. There are also cases of apparent insincerity that are also of like nature, because the consciousness sees clearly in this domain and it is a domain so near that the same names could be given to things; they seem to have the same or quite similar forms, but it is not what is here known by the name "tangible reality"; materially, externally, things are not quite like that. And so there are cases of so-called insincerity which are simply too close a mixture of the two consciousnesses—too close for active discernment. Oh! A whole domain has been made clear, and not only made clear, but has brought with it the key to healing or to transformation. From an inner psychological point of view, this has explained things to an enormous degree, to an enormous degree. That reduces considerably the number of cases of true mental alienation and

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cases of real falsehood, that is to say, cases where one says deliberately, consciously, the contrary of what is—it cannot be as frequent as one believes. Many say things like that (gesture of floating), things inexact, but which they perceive in a world other than the purely material, in too close a mixture and with not enough discrimination to discover the mixture.... Sri Aurobindo used to say that cases of real ill-will, real hostility and real falsehood are very rare, that is to say, "real" in its absolute sense, in themselves, and conscious, deliberate—deliberate, absolute, conscious—that is rare; and it is that which is described as the hostile beings. But all the rest is a kind of illusion of consciousness—of consciousnesses that intermingle with each other (Mother passes the fingers of her right hand into those of the left in a to-and-fro movement) and, being without precise discrimination between the different consciousnesses, are like this (same gesture), mixed, the one entering and coming out of the other.

(Silence)

So the result was to see the immensity of the problem to be solved and of the way to follow and the transformation to achieve.... When you look from the purely psychological standpoint, it becomes relatively easy and quick, but when you come to this (Mother touches her body), to the external form, to what is called Matter, oh, it is a world! Each lesson—it is like lessons that are given, it is so interesting! lessons with all the consequences and explanations; you pass a day, two days to make a small, a very small discovery. And then you see that in the bodily consciousness, after that, after these days or these hours of work, the light is there, it is changed—it is changed, the reactions are no longer the same, but... (gesture indicating a world of work).

And the Presence, the Presence becomes more and more intimate, more and more concrete, and at that time there are moments when it is (gesture of swelling up) so concrete that

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it seems to be absolute, and then (gesture of covering) another state of consciousness comes up and all has to be begun again.

It is interesting.

And it is precisely to teach you.... The great words, the great attitudes, the great experiences, all that is very good up there, but here... nothing spectacular—everything is very modest, very calm, very effaced—very modest. And this is the condition for progress, the condition for transformation.

There, my child.

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15 November 1967

One has the feeling that unless something like a miracle happens, in the sense in which man understands miracles, well, it will take many centuries.

But did you ever expect that it would not take time?

Yes, evidently.

But I never thought—I never thought that it could come quickly. First of all, one has only to try, as I do, on one's own body, see the difference between matter as it is, the constitution as it is, and then... what one may conceive of a divine existence—that is to say, divine, which is not at every second tied to the obscurity of a half inconscient matter... How long will it take? How long has it taken to change the stone into the plant, the plant into the animal, the animal...? We do not know, but in the way things move... Now that they have become so clever in calculating, when do they think the earth was formed? How many millions and millions of years? And all that to arrive at where we are now.

Naturally, the more it moves, the more it goes quickly, it is understood, but quickly... quickly?

If the process has to be "natural", it will take an eternity.

No! It is not a question of being "natural". Nature has arranged things progressively to manifest the consciousness; that is to say, the whole work has been to prepare the Inconscient in such a way that it may become conscious. Naturally, now the consciousness is there, at least in a large measure; hence it goes much quicker; that is to say, the bulk of the work is done. But still, as I have said,

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when one sees the degree to which it is tied to inconscience, to a half-vague consciousness, and sees that men who do not know still feel the "fatality", the "destiny"—what they call "Nature" and all that dominates and rules—well, for the last change to be done, all that must become fully conscious, and not only in the mental way—that is not sufficient—but in the divine way! So, much remains to be done.

This is just what I see every day with this poor little body, and then, all that surrounds it (gesture of a crowding all around), all this substance as it is, oh!... nothing but illness and misery and disorder. Oh! All that has nothing in common with the Divine. An unconscious mass.

Do you mean to say: Unless something comes down and by force changes it?

Yes.

But Sri Aurobindo says (I read it two days ago, I do not know where he has written it, for it was only a quotation) that if the divine Consciousness, the divine Power, the divine Love, the Truth manifested itself too rapidly upon the earth, the earth would be dissolved! She would not be able to bear it... brrf!

I am translating, but the idea is that.

But perhaps not the highest divine dose, but a small divine dose!

(Mother laughs) The smaller dose is always there. It is always there, a small dose; there is even a somewhat strong dose, and if one looks at That, one is full of wonder. But it is just because of That that one still sees... how things are.

Well, there is not a day when it has not been noticed that one dose, not a full dose but just a little dose, an infinitesimal drop of That, can cure you in a minute—"it can": it does cure you, not "it can"; you are all the while in that state, poised, and

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the least failing means disorder and the end; and just one drop of That... it becomes light and progress. The two extremes. The two extremes are side by side.

It is an observation that one makes at least several times a day.

But naturally, if this instrument was made to observe, to explain, to describe, it could say wonderful things, but, well... I think—I do not know, but it seems to be the first time that the instrument, instead of being made in order to bring the "Good Tidings", the "Revelation", to give the signal, has been made to... to try to realise—to do the work, the obscure task. And so it observes, but it does not get into an ecstatic joy of observation, and it is compelled at every minute to see, in spite of that, how much work still remains to be done.... And so, as regards itself it can rejoice only when the work has been done—but what does that mean, the "work done"?... Something that is established. This divine Presence, this divine Consciousness, this divine Truth manifests itself like this, in a flash, and then... everything goes on in its usual trot—there is a change, but an imperceptible change. Well, for it (the body), this is all right, and I think it is that which sustains its courage and gives it a kind of smiling peace in spite of all that is so little satisfactory with regard to the result; but this cannot satisfy it, it will be satisfied only... when the thing will be done, that is to say, when what is now a revelation—dazzling but short-lived—will be an established fact, when truly there will be divine bodies, divine beings dealing with the world in a divine way; then, then only it will say, "Yes, that is it", but not before. Well, that, I do not believe that it can be immediately.

Because I see very well, very well what is at work; I have told you, there are things which, yes, if I had to narrate and explain and predict, one could make with it a whole teaching, with only one of these experiences—I have at least several of them in a day. But that serves no purpose, to be sure, I know it. And it is not impatience, it is not even a lack of satisfaction,

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nothing of the kind; it is a... a Force, a Will that moves forward step by step and that cannot stop in order to tell the story, to rest content with what has been done.

(Silence)

Is there anywhere upon earth a being truly divine, that is to say, who is not ruled by any law of inconscience?... One would know, it seems to me. If it existed and I did not know it, then I must say that I must have somewhere in me a very great insincerity for such a thing to happen.

To say the truth, I do not ask myself the question.

In all, all who are known, all who have taken the position of revelators of the new world or realisers of the new life, every one of them possesses a certain percentage of unconsciousness very much greater than mine, then... But this is all that is known publicly. Is there a being somewhere and nobody knows him?... It would surprise me if there was no communication. I do not know.

Well, there are many, many, quite an outburst of new Christs, of Kalkis,¹ of Supermen, oh! There are very many of them, but generally, in some way there is communication, in any case their existence comes to be known; well, among all of them, all with whom I have come in contact, visible or invisible, there is not a single one who has... (how to say it?) less unconsciousness than there is in this body—but I recognise there is much of it, oh!

The process I do not see, how to get out of this inertia, this unconsciousness.

Process, what process? Of transformation?

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Yes. It is said that the consciousness must act and awaken all that...

But it is doing that!

Yes, it is doing that, but...

It does not stop doing it!

The answer is this: all at once there is the perception (oh! all these are subtle, very subtle things, but for the consciousness precisely, it is very concrete), the perception of a kind of disorganisation, like a current of disorganisation; then the substance constituting the body begins at first by feeling, then by noticing the effect, then everything begins to be disorganised. It is this disorganisation that prevents the cohesion necessary for the cells to constitute an individual body; then one knows, ah! (gesture of dissolution), it is going to be finished. Then the cells aspire, and there is something like a central consciousness of the body which aspires intensely, with a surrender as complete as it can make: "Thy Will, Lord, Thy Will, Thy Will." Then there is a kind of—not anything bursting aloud, not any dazzling flash, but a kind of... yes, it gives the feeling of a condensation of this current of disorganisation, and then something stops; at first a peace, then a light, then the Harmony—and the disorder disappears. And when the disorder has disappeared, at once there is this feeling in the cells that they live the eternity, for the eternity.

Well, this, in this way, with all the intensity of concrete reality, is happening not only daily but many times in a day. At times it is very severe, that is to say, like a mass. Sometimes it is only a thing that touches; then in the consciousness of the body it translates itself in this way, as a kind of thanksgiving: a progress in fact over the inconscience. Only, these are not resounding events; the human neighbour does not even know it, he can perhaps notice a kind of cessation in the outward

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activity, a kind of concentration, but that's all. So one does not speak of the matter, one cannot write books on it, one does not do propaganda about it.... It is this, the work.

All, all the mental aspirations are not satisfied with this.

It is a work very obscure.

(Mother goes into a long contemplation.)

It is a day or two now, I do not know, there was, as it were, a total vision of this effort of the earth towards its divinisation, and it was as if someone were saying (it is not "someone", it is the witness consciousness, the consciousness that observes, but it formulates itself in words; very often it formulates itself in English and I have the feeling that it is Sri Aurobindo, the active consciousness of Sri Aurobindo, but sometimes it is translated into words only in my consciousness) and it was something that said, "Yes, the time of proclamations, of revelations is gone—now to action."

In fact, proclamations, revelations, prophecies, all that is very agreeable, it gives the feeling of something "concrete"; now it is very obscure, the feeling that it is very obscure, invisible (the results will be visible only a long, long time hereafter), not understood.

It belongs to a domain which is not yet ready to be explained, to be manifested in words.

And indeed, to the extent that it is truly new, it is incomprehensible. What I say does not correspond to any experience lived through by him who reads about it.

And I see quite well, I see so well the little work like this (gesture of reversal) which would be needed for it to become a prophetic revelation. A little work, a little reversal in the mind—the experience is altogether outside the mind, and so what is spoken of it (Mother tilts her head)... Precisely because it is not mental, the thing is almost incomprehensible; and for all this (oh! it is visible) for all this to become accessible, just a little

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reversal (same gesture) in the mind and it becomes a prophecy. And that... that is not possible. It will lose its truth.

There you are.

Yes, it is on the way.

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22 November 1967

There is a progress.

At the end of the physical demonstration on the 2nd of December,¹ all the children in a chorus are going to pray, and I have written the prayer for them. I am going to read it to you. But I had not thought of it; I was asked and I did it.

Probably they read the Bulletin and so they asked for a prayer—a prayer that is truly of the body. And I answered:

The prayer of the cells of the body

Now that, by the effect of the Grace, we are slowly emerging out of inconscience and waking to a conscious life, an ardent prayer rises in us for more light, more consciousness,

"O Supreme Lord of the universe, we implore Thee, give us the strength and the beauty, the harmonious perfection needed to be Thy divine instruments upon earth."

It is almost a proclamation.

After the demonstration they are going to say it. It appears they are going to show the whole historical growth of physical culture and then at the end they will say: we have not come to the end, we are at the beginning of something and here is our prayer.

I was very glad.

You say there is a progress?

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A progress! A tremendous progress! They had never thought, never; there in the totality they had never thought of achieving the transformation: they were thinking of becoming the best athletes in the world and all the usual nonsense.

The body, you see, they asked for a prayer of the body. They have come to understand that the body must begin to transform itself into something else. Before this, they were quite full of the whole history of physical culture in all the countries, and the country where it is most advanced and how to use the body as it is, etc. Well, it was the ideal of the Olympics. Now they have jumped beyond; that was the past, now they want transformation.

Yes, people in their mind and their vital asked to become divine; well, it is all the old story of spirituality, reiterated for centuries. No, now it is the body. It is the body that wants to participate. It is altogether a progress.

Yes, but one can see very well how in the mind the aspiration maintains itself, how it lives by itself. In the heart also, one sees very well how the aspiration lives. But in the body? How to awaken this aspiration in the body?

But it is already fully awake for months in me! So it must be they have just now felt it and they feel it.

How is it done?—it is in the process of being done.

But how in oneself...

No, no, no. If it has been done in one single body, it can be done in all bodies.

Yes, but I ask how... yes, how?

Well, that is what I have been trying to explain for months.

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First of all, to awaken the consciousness in the cells...

Well, yes!

Yes, of course, but once it is done, it is done: the consciousness wakes up more and more, the cells live consciously, aspire consciously. I have been trying to explain it for months; for months and months I have been trying to explain it. And so it is just that which has pleased me, that they have understood at least the possibility.

The same consciousness which was the monopoly of the vital and the mind has become that of the body: the consciousness is working in the cells of the body.

The cells of the body are becoming something conscious, wholly conscious.

A consciousness that is independent, not depending at all upon the vital or the mental consciousness: it is a bodily consciousness.

(Silence)

And this physical mind of which Sri Aurobindo said that it was an impossibility, that it was something that turns round and round and will always turn round and round, precisely without consciousness, like a kind of machine, that mind has been converted, has become silent, and in the silence it has received the inspiration of the Consciousness. And it has begun again to pray: the same prayers that were there before in the mind.

I quite understand what can happen in you, but...

But since it is happening in one body, it can happen in all bodies! I am not made of something different from the others. The difference is in consciousness, that is all. It is made exactly of

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the same thing, with the same things, I eat the same things, and it was made in the same way, absolutely.

And it was as stupid, as obscure, as unconscious, as obstinate as all the bodies of the world.

And this began when the doctors declared that I was very ill,² that was the beginning. Because the entire body was emptied of its habits and its forces, and then slowly, slowly, slowly the cells woke up to a new receptivity and opened themselves to the Divine Influence directly.

Otherwise there would be no hope. If this matter that started by being... Even a pebble is already an organisation—certainly it was worse than a pebble: unconscious, inert, absolute; and then, little by little, little by little that woke up. It sees, yes, it sees, it has only to open its eyes to see. Well, it is the same thing which happens: for the animal to become a man it did not require anything other than the infusion of a consciousness, a mental consciousness; and now it is the awakening of this consciousness which was altogether at the bottom, the very bottom. The mind is withdrawn, the vital is withdrawn, all is withdrawn. At the time when I was said to be ill, the mind was gone, the vital was gone, the body was left to itself—purposely. Yes, it is that, it is just because the vital and the mental were gone that it gave the impression of a very serious illness. And then, in the body left to itself, little by little the cells began to wake up to the consciousness (gesture of aspiration rising up); this consciousness that was infused into the body by the vital (from the mental into the vital, from the vital into the body), when both had disappeared, the consciousness emerged slowly, slowly. That started with a burst of the Love from the highest summit, the last supreme altitude, and then little by little, little by little, it came down into the body. And then this physical mind, that is to say, something altogether, altogether stupid, which used to turn round and round, repeating always the same thing, a hundred

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times the same thing, little by little it was illumined, became conscious, was organised, and then it entered into the silence; then in the silence the aspiration expressed itself in prayers.

(Silence)

It is the contradiction of all the spiritual assertions of the past: "If you want to live fully conscious of the divine life, give up your body—the body cannot follow"; well, Sri Aurobindo came and said: the body, not only can it follow, it can even be the base for manifesting the Divine.

The work remains to be done.

But now a certitude is there. The result remains still far off, very far; much has to be done before the crust, the experience of the most external surface as it is, manifests what is happening within (not "within" in the spiritual depths: within the body). To enable that to manifest what is within... This will come last, and it is good it is so, for if it came before time, one would neglect the work, one would be so satisfied as to forget to finish his work; everything should be done within, should be well and good, should be thoroughly changed, then the outside will speak it out.

But it is all one single substance, all similar everywhere, and everywhere it was unconscious; and then what is remarkable is that automatically things are happening (gesture showing points scattered everywhere in the world) altogether unexpected, here and there, in people who do not even know anything.

(Silence)

The material cells have to obtain the capacity to receive and to manifest consciousness. And then what makes for a radical transformation is that in place of, so to say, an eternal and indefinite ascent, there is the appearance of a new type—it is a descent from above. The previous descent was a mental descent,

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and this one, Sri Aurobindo calls it a supramental descent; the impression is that of a descent of the supreme Consciousness which infuses itself into something that is capable of receiving it and manifesting it. And then, out of this, when it has been thoroughly churned (how long it will take, one does not know), a new form will take birth, which will be what Sri Aurobindo called the supramental form—which will be... it does not matter what, I do not know what these beings will be called.

How will they express themselves, how will they make themselves understood, and all that?... In man, it has developed very slowly. Only the mind has laboured much and basically has made things move quicker.

How is one going to reach there?... There will surely be stages in the manifestation, with perhaps a specimen that will come and say: this is how it is. (Mother looks in front) One sees that.

Only, when man came out of the animal, there was no means of recording—of noting down and keeping an account of the process—now it is quite different, so it will be more interesting.

(Silence)

But still at the present moment, the vast majority—the vast majority—of the intellectual humanity is perfectly satisfied with being busy with itself and its bits of progress like this (Mother draws a microscopic circle). It has not even—not even the desire to be anything else.

This means that the coming of the superhuman being... it may very well pass unperceived or not be understood. One cannot say, for there is no analogy; evidently if a monkey, one of the big monkeys, had met the first man, he would simply have felt that it was a being a little... queer, that's all. But now it is different, because man thinks, reasons.

But with regard to all that is superior to man, man has been accustomed to think that these were beings... divine beings, that

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is to say, they had no body, they appeared in the light—in short, all the gods as they have been conceived—but it is not at all like that.

(Long silence)

Then?

You are not convinced?

Why don't you try?

Of course! That is why I put the question to you. I am not doubting anything whatsoever. I put the question to you, I asked you: "How is one to do it, I do not know how it is done."... For example, in the morning I shave myself; well, in the morning one is stupid, one is tired, the mind refuses to work, the vital refuses to work...

Yes, it is an excellent occasion.

Certainly, it is just what I do, and I say: well, no, I do not see. I do not know how to make it move—it does not move. It does not move unless I put my mind or vital or heart to it.

Bah!

It is not that I am doubting. I say that my body is an ass, quite possibly, but I do not doubt.

It is not an ass, poor fellow! (Mother laughs.)

Doubts I do not have, but the question about the "how", that, yes, I do not know.

For me that problem never arose, because... When one plays

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music or does painting, one sees very well that the consciousness enters into the cells and these cells become conscious. This experience, for example: there are things in a box and one says to the hand: "Take twelve"; (without counting, like that) the hand picks up the twelve and gives them to you. That is an experience that I had long, long ago. At the age of twenty I started having experiences like that, therefore I know. I knew how the consciousness works. Well, it is impossible to learn piano or to do painting unless the consciousness enters into the hands and the hands become conscious independently of the head. The head can be busy elsewhere, that has no importance. Besides, this is exactly what happens in the case of people called somnambulists: they have a consciousness belonging to the body that makes them move and do things quite independent of the mind and the vital.

I mean to say that when I am before the mirror for shaving, if I do not put within me the mantra or an aspiration coming from the heart, well, it is an inert block that is shaving, and add to that the physical mind whirling. But if I put a mantra or a mental will...

But no! It is the body that ends by saying the mantra! Spontaneously, so spontaneously that even if you by chance think of other things, your body will be saying the mantra. You do not have this experience?

No.

And it is the body that aspires, the body that says the mantra, the body that wants the light, the body that wants the consciousness—you, you can think of other things, Tom, Dick or Harry, a book, etc., it has no importance.

But now I understand very well, very well; in the beginning I did not understand, I believed that I was made "ill" so that I

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would stop the life that I was leading when I was downstairs³—but I lead a life still more busy than the life downstairs, therefore... I asked myself why, whether it was a period of transition. But now I understand: cut off, I fainted in a swoon. That is why the doctor declared that I was ill: I could not move a step without fainting; I wanted to walk from here to there: on the way, pouf! I fainted. Someone had to hold me so that the body would not fall down. But as for me, I did not lose consciousness for a single minute. I fainted, but I was conscious, I saw my body, I knew that I had fainted, I did not lose consciousness, and the body also did not lose consciousness. So now I understand: it was cut off from the vital and the mental and left to its own resources; it was simply the body: all that it knew, all the experiences it had had, all the mastery that was there in all the states of being, the vital, the mental and above, all that gone! and this poor body left to itself. And then naturally, little by little, all that was rebuilt, rebuilt, a conscious, purely conscious being.

Yes, I understand, I understand. But truly it was cut off, that I have known—I have seen—cut off, the states of being sent away: "Go away, you are no longer wanted." And then a new life needed to be built up. And instead of the necessity of passing through all the states of being as was done before, by successive awakenings (gesture of ascent step by step as done by the old yogis) up to the highest, the very highest, beyond form—now it is not at all like that, it needed nothing at all of all that, it has simply to... (gesture of aspiration that rises and opens like a flower). Something has opened and developed within, and that is why this stupid mind has been organised, has been capable of being silent in an aspiration; and then... then it was the direct contact, without any intermediary—direct contact. And that it has now, all the while. All the while, all the while, the direct contact. And it is the body, it is not through all kinds of things and states of being, not at all, it is direct.

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But once it is done (Sri Aurobindo has said this), once one body has done it, it has the capacity to pass it on to others: and I tell you, now—I do not say in the whole and in detail, probably not, but here and there (gesture of scattering, indicating various points upon earth)—all of a sudden one or another experience occurs in people. There are people (the majority) who are afraid; then naturally it goes away—it is because they were not sufficiently prepared within; if it is not the petty routine of every minute, of day to day, they have fear; and once they have fear, it is finished, it means that years of preparation will be needed for this to happen again. But there are some who are not afraid; an experience, all of a sudden! "Ah!..." Something altogether new, altogether unexpected, of which they never thought.

It is contagious, this I know. And it is the only hope, because if everyone had to go again through the same experience... Well, now I am ninety—at ninety people are tired, they have had enough of life. To do that one must feel young like a little child.

And it takes long, I see quite well that it has taken a long time.

And then, it is not done, it is being done, but it is not done—far from it—we are far from it.... What is the percentage of conscious cells? One does not know.

And from time to time there are some that scold the others. It is very amusing! They scold, they catch hold of them, tell them stupidities (in their way)—to those that want (Mother draws a small circle) to continue the old habits: digestion must be done in a certain way, absorption in a certain way, circulation in a certain way, respiration in a certain way... all the functions must be done according to the method of Nature; and when it is not like that, they become anxious. And then those that know, catch hold of them and put them under heavy bombardment in the name of the Lord. It is very amusing!

Something is translated in words (it is without words, but there something is translated in words) and then there are conversations among the cells (Mother laughs): "Imbecile that you

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are! Why do you have fear? Don't you see it is the Lord himself who is doing this to transform you?" And the other: "Ah!..." Then it remains quiet, and then opens itself and waits, and then... the pain goes away, the disorder goes away, and everything is put in order.

It is wonderful.

But if by mischance the mind comes in, starts to help or judge, then the whole thing stops, and all fall back into the old habit.

(Long silence)

In reality, it is the ego, vital, mental, etc., all that has been, pouf! taken away.

It was a radical operation.

And so now, there is a kind of suppleness, plasticity. And all this is learning—it is very much in relation with the whole (horizontal gesture), but it is learning to look for all its support, all its force, all its knowledge, all its light, all its will, all, all, like that (vertical gesture, turned to the Supreme), solely like that, in an extraordinary plasticity.

And then, the splendour of the Presence.

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29 November 1967

I have some new photos, taken on the Darshan day. Photographs taken by a telescopic camera. They are not enlarged, they are as they were taken. (Mother shows the photos to the disciple.)

I do not know, but at each Darshan I have the feeling that I am a different person, and when I see myself in this way, objectively, indeed I see a different person every time. Sometimes an old Chinese! Sometimes a kind of transposition of Sri Aurobindo, a veiled Sri Aurobindo, and then sometimes a person whom I know very well, but who is not this one: once I was like that. This has happened to me many times.

But here also, I have the feeling that it is someone... it is altogether different from what you usually are.

Isn't it so!

And I have the feeling that it is something I know.

Yes. And I too have the same feeling exactly. I look at it and I say: I know this person very well—but it has nothing to do with this body.

But it is something that I know!

Indeed, it is very well known, but it is not this (Mother points to her body); it is not here, but it is very well known.

I do not know why, it reminds me of a painter.

One does not know for certain if it is a man or a woman, one is not sure.

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I asked myself if it was not a being that lived in a world other than the physical world of earth. Because it is... I know, but not with the intimacy of bodily sensation; yes, it is someone whom I know very well, whom I have often seen.

I have the impression that it is someone I have already seen.

Oh, yes! But I do not know if you have seen him in this world. (Turning to the other disciple) You do not know that person?

It is not the same Mother!

Yes.... Perhaps it is a picture. You are perhaps right. But which one, I do not see.

Someone who is very familiar to me, but... if I were told that it was a historical person, I would not be surprised.

It is strange. And it becomes more and more so. As the body catches the inner rhythm, this increases.

It cannot be a physical being.

What is it? We will know one day....

It is very familiar.

Yes, but my impression is like this: someone I have known very intimately, with whom I have lived perhaps, but not me, you understand. That is to say, the body says: "It is not me." Inside, it is quite different: there is no "I-you", all that does not exist; but the body, it has still got that, it says: "This is not me, it is someone whom I know very well, very well, but it is not me."

Why does it happen like that at the balcony?¹

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It can be two things. Perhaps the original consciousness divided into two in a past life (this has happened several times) and was manifested in two different bodies at the same time; and so there has naturally been an intimacy, probably even an intermixing of life—this may be a physical occurrence. But it may also be someone existing in a permanent way, in a permanent form somewhere with whom we are in constant contact in that world (overmental or supramental or other) and the feeling within is: yes, I know. It may be either of the two things, I do not know yet which one.

(After a silence) It is more an expression, a type of vibration, an atmosphere, more than exact features. Yes, it would be rather that, someone who exists in a permanent way somewhere and with whom we are in contact.

And that would explain this sensation of not knowing whether it is a man or a woman: it must be a being in an asexual world, where there is neither man nor woman.

(Silence)

The body by itself has more than a feeling, a kind of... it is a knowledge—more than a knowledge, it is a fact: there are many, many beings, forces, personalities who manifest themselves through it, even sometimes several at the same time. That is a very common experience; we know, for example, that Sri Aurobindo is there, he speaks and sees, he has his own way of seeing and expressing himself, that happens very often. And then often it is Durga or Mahakali or... very often. Often, it is a being from very high up, very permanent—very permanent—who manifests himself, and then there occurs a kind of absolute in the being. Sometimes it is beings from a plane nearby who try to make themselves felt, express themselves, but that is under control.

The body is used to that.

And what was strange is that this time, the 24th, when I

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went to the balcony, it was someone... (and this happens to me from time to time, but more and more often) someone who looks from a sort of plane of eternity with a great benevolence mixed in (something like benevolence, I do not know how to express it), but with an absolute calmness, almost indifference, and the two are together, looking like that (Mother describes waves far down below), as if it was seen from very far away, from very high up, from very—how to say it?—seen with a rather eternal vision. It was that which my body was feeling when I came out to the balcony. The body was saying: "I must aspire, there must be an aspiration so that the Force may descend upon all these people", and That, it was like this (sweeping gesture from above). Oh! Very benevolent but a sort of indifference—the indifference of eternity, I do not know how to explain it. And all this the body feels as though something were making use of it.

This is why these photographs interest me, it is to have the state objectified.

We shall know.

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30 December 1967

Mother made the following comment while speaking on the subject of government.

The problem finally reduces itself almost to this: to replace the mental government of intelligence by the government of a spiritualised consciousness.

This is a very interesting experience: how the same actions, the same work, the same observations, the same relations with the environment (near and far) take place in the mind through intelligence, and in the consciousness through experience. And this is what the body is now learning, to replace the mental regime of intelligence by the spiritual government of consciousness. And this does bring about (it looks like nothing, you may not notice it), but it does bring about a tremendous difference, so much so that it increases a hundredfold the possibilities of the body.... When the body is subject to rules, even if they are broad, even if they are comprehensive, it is the slave of these rules, and its possibilities are limited by these rules. But when it is governed by the Spirit and the Consciousness, that gives it an incomparable possibility and flexibility. And it is that which will give it the capacity to prolong its life, prolong its duration; it means the replacement of the intellectual government of the mind by the government of the Spirit, of the Consciousness—the Consciousness. Outwardly it does not seem to make much difference, but... my experience is this (because now my body no longer obeys the mind or the intelligence, not at all—it does not even understand how this can be done), but more and more, better and better, it follows the guidance, the urge of the Consciousness. And then it sees, almost every minute, the tremendous difference that this makes.... For example, time has lost its value its—fixed value. Exactly the same thing can be

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done in a short time or a long time. Necessities have lost their authority. One can adapt oneself like this or like that. All the laws, these laws that were laws of Nature, have lost all their despotism, one might say; it is no longer as before. It is enough to be always, always supple, attentive and... "responsive" to the influence of the Consciousness—the Consciousness in its omnipotence—to pass through all that, with an extraordinary suppleness.

That is the discovery which is being made more and more.

It is wonderful, is it not? It is a wonderful discovery.

It is like a progressive victory over all the imperatives. Thus all laws of Nature, naturally, all the human laws, all the habits, all the rules, all that becomes supple and ends by being non-existent. And yet one can maintain a regular rhythm that facilitates action—it is not contrary to this suppleness. But it is a suppleness in the execution, in the adaptation, that comes in and changes everything. From the point of view of hygiene, from the point of view of health, from the point of view of organisation, from the point of view of relations with others, all that has lost not only its aggressiveness (for it is sufficient to be sane—sane and sober and calm—for it to lose its aggressiveness), but its absolutism, its imperative rule; it is all gone, it is gone.

So, one sees: as the process becomes more and more perfect—"perfect" means integral, total, leaving nothing behind—it is necessarily, inevitably, the victory over death. Not that the dissolution of cells which death represents does not exist, but it will exist only when it will be necessary: not as an absolute law, but as one of the procedures, when it is necessary.

Above all, it is this: all that the Mind has brought of the rigid, the absolute, the almost invincible... will disappear. And simply that, by transferring the supreme power to the Supreme Consciousness.

Perhaps it is that which the ancient seers meant when they spoke of transferring the power of Nature or the power of Prakriti to Purusha, transferring it from Prakriti to Purusha. It is perhaps that which they expressed in this way.

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13 March 1968

In her talk of 27 May 1953, Mother gave the following answer to the question of a disciple:

"Can the Divine withdraw from us?" "That is an impossibility. Because if the Divine withdrew from something, immediately it would collapse, for it would not exist. To put it more clearly: The Divine is the only existence."

Now I would have answered: it is as though you asked whether the Divine could withdraw from Himself! (Mother laughs.) That is the trouble: when one says "Divine", they understand "God".... There is only That: That alone exists. That, what is it? That alone exists!

(Silence)

Even this morning, I was looking, seeing, and it was as though I was saying to the Divine, "Why do You take pleasure in denying Yourself?"... Is it not to satisfy our logic that we say: All that is obscure, all that is ugly, all that is not living, all that is not harmonious, all that is not divine—but how is it possible?... It is only an attitude for action. Then by placing myself in the consciousness of the action, I said, "But why do You take pleasure in being like that!" (Mother laughs.)

It was a very concrete experience of the cells, and with the feeling (not feeling: neither feeling nor sensation), a kind of perception that you are just, just on the border of the great secret.... All of a sudden a whole set of cells or a certain bodily function takes the fancy of going wrong—why? What meaning is there in that? And the response was... it was as though all that helped to break the limits.

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But why, how?...

You can explain everything mentally, but that signifies nothing at all: for the body, for the material consciousness it is abstract. The material consciousness, when it seizes something, it knows the thing a hundred times better than one can know it mentally. And when it knows, it has power: this gives the power. And it is this that is worked out slowly, slowly—and for the ignorant consciousness, slowly and painfully. But for the true consciousness, it is not so: pain, delight, all this is a way... so absurd a way of seeing things—of feeling them, seeing them.

There is a perception more and more concrete that everything... that there is nothing that does not contain the delight of being, because it is the way of being: without the delight of being, there is no being. But it is not what we understand mentally by the delight of being. It is... something that is difficult to say. And this perception of suffering and delight, almost of evil and good, all this, these are necessities for the work, to allow the work to be done in a certain field of inconscience. Because the true consciousness is something altogether, altogether different. And this, it is this which this consciousness of the cells is now learning, and learning through a concrete experience, and all these evaluations of what is good and what is bad, of what is suffering and what is delight, all this appears vague. But still the Thing—the Truth—the concrete Thing is not yet seized. It is on the way, one feels that it is on the way, but it is not yet that. If one had it... one would be the omnipotent master. And it is possible that one can get it only when the entire world or a sufficient part of it will be ready for transformation.

This is a speculation, one might call it an inspiration, but it belongs yet to the domain high above.

From time to time, it is as though one just touched upon the perception of the all-power: one is just on the point, ah! (Mother makes a gesture of catching the thing)... but off it goes.

When one will have that, the world will be able to change. And when I say "one", I do not speak of a person.... There

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is perhaps something which is equivalent to the Person, but that... that also, I am not sure if it is not a projection of our consciousness upon something which escapes us.

Sri Aurobindo used to say always that if one went far enough, beyond the Impersonal, if one went further beyond, one would find something that we could call "Person", but which corresponded to nothing that we conceive of as "Person".

So then there, there is only That; and it is That which has Power. But even when we say, "There is only That" (Mother laughs), we place it in some other thing!... Words, languages are unfit to express something that is beyond consciousness; as soon as you formulate, it sinks down.

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16 March 1968

You have the feeling that all the time—all the time—you are on the way towards a great discovery, and then you do make the discovery, and you find out that it has always been made!... Only you look at it in another way.

This morning, an experience that seemed to be an unusual revelation and... it is a thing that was always known. Then you mentalise it; the very moment you mentalise it, it becomes clear, but it is no longer what it was. Well, one may say that this creation is the "creation of equilibrium",¹ and it is just the mental error which wants to choose one thing and reject another. All things have to be together: what you call good and what you call evil, what you call fair and what you call foul, what seems to you pleasant and what seems to you unpleasant, all this must be together. And this morning, it was the discovery of the Separation this Separation which has been described in all sorts of different ways, sometimes as a story, sometimes merely in an abstract manner, sometimes philosophically, sometimes... all this, these are only explanations, but there is something, which probably is simply the Objectivisation (Mother makes a gesture of pushing the universe out, out of the Non-manifest), but this also is a way of explaining. This so-called Separation, what is it exactly? One does not know. Or perhaps one knows, I don't know. It is just That which has created (let us put it in colour) the black and white, the night and day (this is already a more mixed thing, but black and white also are a mixed thing), but the tendency is to put up two poles: the pleasant thing, the good

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thing, and the unpleasant thing, the bad thing. But as soon as you seek to return to the Origin, the two tend to fuse into each other.

And it is in perfect equilibrium, that is to say, where no division is possible any more and where the one has no influence over the other, where the two are only one, that there is this famed Perfection which one is trying to reconquer.

The rejection of the one and the acceptance of the other is childishness. It is an ignorance. And all mental translations, like that of an Evil eternally evil, giving rise to the idea of Hell, and of a Good eternally good... all this, all, all are childishness.

(Silence)

It may be (it may be, because as soon as you want to formulate, you mentalise and as soon as you mentalise, it is reduced, diminished, limited, it loses the force of truth in the end) that in this universe as it is constituted, perfection is... (Mother remains absorbed for a long time). Words fail. One could say like this (it is dry and lifeless): It is the consciousness of the unity of the whole felt in the individual—felt, lived, realised. But that is nothing, these are nothing but words.... The universe seems to have been created to realise this paradox of the consciousness of the whole, living (not merely perceived but lived) in every part, in every element constituting the whole.

Then as to the formation of these elements, it began by the Separation and it is the Separation which gave birth to this division between that one calls the good and the bad; but from the point of view of sensation—sensation in the most material part—one can say it is suffering and Ananda. The movement then is to stop all separation and realise the total consciousness in every part—which is from the mental point of view an absurdity, but it is like that.

For my taste it is much too philosophical, it is not sufficiently concrete; but the experience of this morning was concrete, and

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it was concrete because it came out of extremely concrete sensations in the body, of the presence of this constant duality (in appearance), of an opposition (not merely opposition but the negation of the one by the other) between... we may take as a symbol suffering and Ananda. And the true state—which it seems impossible to formulate in words for the moment, but which was lived and felt—is a totality containing all, but instead of containing all as elements confronting one another, it is a harmony of all, an equilibrium of all. And when this equilibrium will be realised in the creation, this creation will be able to... (if words are spoken, it is no longer that) one could say: continue to progress without rupture (it is not that).

There was also seen in the present imperfect consciousness, these days, repeatedly (but all that, methodical and organised through an organisation of the whole infinitely superior to any we can imagine), a state which is the one determining the rupture of equilibrium, that is to say, the dissolution of the form, what is usually called "death", and this state up to its extreme limit, as a demonstration—along with, at the same time, the state (not the perception but the state) preventing this rupture of equilibrium and permitting the continuity of the progress without rupture. And this gives in the body consciousness the simultaneous (so to say, simultaneous) perception of what one might call the extreme agony of dissolution (although it is not quite that, but still) and then the extreme Ananda of union—the two simultaneous.

Thus, translated in ordinary words: extreme frailty—more than frailty—of the form, and the eternity of the form.

And it is not merely union, but the fusion, the identification of the two which is the Truth.

When it is mentalised, it becomes clear for everybody—it loses its essential quality, something that cannot be mentalised.

It is the consciousness of the two states that must be simultaneous?

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Not divided. It is the union of the two states which makes the true consciousness, the union of the two—"union" still implies division—the identification of the two which makes the true consciousness. And then one has the feeling that it is that, it is that consciousness, which is the supreme Power. Power is limited by oppositions and negations, is it not?—the most powerful power is the one that dominates most; but it is wholly an imperfection. There is, however, an all-powerful Power which is made of the fusion of the two. That is absolute Power. And if That was realised physically... probably it would be the end of the problem.

Indeed, during the few hours I lived like that this morning, the feeling was that everything has been mastered and everything understood—and "understood" in that way of comprehension which makes the power absolute. But naturally that cannot be said.

It is that which people who must have had the experience or a touch of the experience translated by saying that this world was the world of equilibrium: that is to say, it is the simultaneity, without division, of all contraries. As soon as there is some divergence—not even divergence, any difference—it is the beginning of division. And whatever is not that state cannot be eternal; it is that state alone which... not merely contains but expresses (or what?) the eternity.

There have been all kinds of philosophies that have tried to explain that, but it is up in the air, it is mental, it is speculative. But that, it is lived—"lived", I mean: to be that.

Is it the material equivalent of a psychological experience one has in which the perception of the evil disappears completely in the perception of an absolute Good, even in the evil?

Yes, that is it. One might say that instead of being just a mental conception, it is a concrete realisation of the fact.

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22 August 1968

About a note written by Mother concerning an ordeal that threatened her physical body.

The doctor advises not to get tired. What is it that tires? Only that which is useless.

To see sincere people to whom it does good is not tiring.

But those who come to weigh theories and practices, those who in their intelligence believe they are very superior and are capable of distinguishing the true from the false, who imagine that they can decide whether a teaching is true and whether a practice agrees with the Supreme Reality—those are indeed tiring and to see them is useless, to say the least.

Let these beings of higher intelligence trot as they please on their way which will continue thousands of years and leave simple people of goodwill, those who believe in the divine Grace, to advance quietly on their path of light.

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28 August 1968

It was interesting, my child. I have kept all these notes. We will go through them. It is not finished. It is not finished and I do not know when it will be finished.

Have you news?

No, Mother. I had seen something before 15th August, one night, about 11th August. I saw an enormous, fantastic wave of white foam, a wave taller than a house, fantastic; and driven by this wave a huge boat, all black, which seemed to roll upon the rocks, but not get crushed: it was pushed by this wave. There was another, much smaller, of light grey colour it seemed to me, but going at a still greater speed. And this fantastic wave of white foam....

Many things are astir over there.... You know the happenings in Czechoslovakia?

It is on the move.

A black boat?

Yes, a huge boat. And curiously, one had the feeling that it was rolling upon the rocks (also black), without being crushed however.

I am sure the movement has started.... How long will it take to come to a concrete, visible and organised realisation? I don't know.

Something has started.... It seems it must be the onrush of the new species, the new creation, or a new creation in any case.

A terrestrial reorganisation and a new creation.

For me things became very acute.... It was impossible for me to utter a word, a single word: as soon as I began to talk, I

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started coughing, coughing, coughing. Then I saw it was decided that I should not speak. And I remained in that way and I let the curve develop itself. Afterwards I understood. We are not at the end, but... (how to say it?) we are on the other side.

There was a moment when things were so acute.... Usually I do not lose patience, but it had reached a point where everything, everything in the being was as though annulled. Not only could I not speak, but the head was in a state in which it had never been in the whole of my life: painful, indeed. I did not see at all, I did not hear at all. Then one day (I will tell you my experiences presently), one day things were really... it was pain, suffering everywhere; the body said, it said indeed very spontaneously and very strongly: "It is all the same to me if I am dissolved, and I am also quite ready to live, but the state in which I am is impossible, it cannot continue—either to live or to die, but not this." From that moment, it began to be a little better. Then, little by little things got settled, put in their places.

I took down notes, they are not worth much, but I believe they may be useful. (Mother looks for the notes on a table near her.) I still do not see. I do not see, only I know.

The first note is dated 22nd August:

"For several hours, the landscape was marvellous, of a perfect harmony.

"Also, for a long time, visions of the inside of huge temples, of living deities. Each thing had a reason, a precise aim, to express states of consciousness not mentalised.

"Visions constantly.

"Landscapes.

"Buildings.

"Towns.

"Everything vast and greatly varied, covering the

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entire visual field and translating the states of body consciousness.

"Many, many buildings, huge towns being built..."

Yes, the world is being built, the future world is being built. I was no longer hearing, I was no longer seeing, I was no longer speaking: I was living within there, all the while, all the while, all the while, night and day. Then as soon as I was able to note down, I noted down that.

"All sorts of styles of construction, above all new, inexpressible. They are not pictures seen, but places where I happen to be."

Yes, it is that. I will explain to you what happened. There is another note here which is the beginning:

"The vital and the mental are sent away so that the physical is truly left to its own resources."

All by itself. All by itself¹. And it was then that I found out to what extent the vital and the mental make what we see and hear and speak. It was... I could see, in the sense that I could move, but it was all very imprecise. Imprecise. I could hear even less than before, that is to say, very little, just a little; sometimes the same as before; sometimes just a little sound, very far away, which others could not hear, I heard. And when they spoke to me, I did not hear them: "What do you say?" I do not know. And that continuously, day and night.

One night (it is to tell you that everything was topsy-turvy), but one night I had trouble. Something had happened and I had

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a pretty severe pain and it was impossible to sleep. I remained concentrated in that condition and the night passed, it seemed to me, in a few minutes. Then at other times, on other days, at other moments, I remained concentrated, and from time to time I asked what time it was. Once it seemed to me that I had remained so for hours and hours, and I asked for the time: five minutes only.... So everything seemed to be, I cannot say topsy-turvy, but it was a very different order, very different.

On the 23rd, it was the birthday of X. I had called him and he was seated. All at once, yes, all at once the head began to be active—not the "head", not "thought" (Mother shows some kind of currents and waves passing through her); I do not know how to explain it: it was not a thought, they were a sort of visions, perceptions. And then I put to him some questions and he took them down. (Mother hands to the disciple a typed note.) He has noted down only my questions, not his answers.

"Mother said on the afternoon of 23rd August 1968: "Do they know how Matter was formed?"

It was the physical that put the questions. I do not know, but probably in contact with the atmosphere of X,² the body became interested in knowing how all that was formed. And X was there, I knew he could answer; so I put to him the questions.

"Do they know how Matter was formed?

"To say that it is condensed energy is merely to push back the question.

"The true question is: How did the Supreme manage to manifest Himself in Matter?"

You see, these subjects that are considered so important, so vast, so noble, so... I speak of them in an altogether childlike tone and with quite ordinary words (Mother laughs).

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"Do they know since when the earth has existed?

"When you speak of millions and millions of years, what does that mean?"

They had no watches, you understand! It was the body, with the simplicity of a child, which said: "You speak of millions and millions of years; with what have you measured?"

"Are they sure that what we call one year has always represented the same thing?... I had, in this period, the consciousness of the unreality of our normal conception of time. Sometimes one minute seemed interminable; at other times, hours, even a whole day passed without seeming to have existed.

"Do they say there was a beginning?"

(Here X explains to Mother the theory according to which the universe passes through successive periods of expansion and contraction, and this theory seems to please Mother.)

Yes, they are the pralayas.

"Now it is the body that is putting these questions. The mind has left long ago. But the body, the cells of the body would like to have contact with the true being, without having to pass, so to say, through the vital or even through the mind. That is what is happening.

"During this period I have had two or three times the Knowledge."

Ah! I have had moments, twice or thrice, absolutely wonderful and unique moments—they are untranslatable, untranslatable.

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"But as soon as you are aware of such an experience..."

You have the experience and then you become aware of having it; and as soon as you become aware of having it, it gets obscured, something gets obscured.

Yes, it is the whole phenomenon of mental objectification which basically will disappear in the coming species.

Yes, it seems to be like that.

"As soon as you are aware of such an experience, as soon as it is marked in the memory, it is already completely falsified.

"Basically, this is what happens to the scientists. When they have just a bit of knowledge, they must clothe it, dress it up, to make it accessible to human consciousness, understandable to the mind.

"(After a silence, Mother puts another question:)

Do they know since when man came into existence?

"It will take less time for the superman to appear than it took man to develop, but it is nothing immediate."

That day, the 23rd, I was still... I was still like pulp, my child! So I told myself: to come out of this pulpy state and to become someone effective, someone who exists and acts, well, it will take long. That is what I told him.

But you say also in concluding the note:

"We will have done what we could."

Yes, I said it to console him!

Well, last night, this is what happened (Mother hands another note to the disciple, written by herself).

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"Night of the 26th to 27th "Powerful and prolonged penetration of supramental forces into the body, everywhere at the same time..."

Penetration into the body. Yes, penetration of the current, I had had on many occasions, but that night (that is to say, the night before last), it came all of a sudden, as though there was nothing but a supramental atmosphere; there was nothing but that. And my body was within it. That was pressing to enter, from everywhere, everywhere, everywhere at the same time—everywhere. So it was not a current that was entering, it was an atmosphere that penetrated from everywhere. That continued for at least four or five hours. And there was only one part that was hardly penetrated, it was from here to there (Mother indicates between the throat and the crown of the head): there, it had a grey and dull look, as though the current penetrated less there.... But apart from that, all the rest, all... it entered and entered and entered.... I never, never saw anything like it, never! It lasted for hours and hours. Altogether consciously.

So, at the time when it came and during the time it was there, I was conscious: "Ah, it is for that, it is for that: it is that, it is that which You want of me, O Lord! It is for that, it is for that, it is that which You want." At that moment I had the feeling that something was about to happen.

I hoped for its return this night, but nothing came about.

It was the first time. For hours. There was nothing else but That. And this (Mother's body), it was like an absorbing sponge.

Only the head, it is still grey, dull—grey and dull. But then, all the same, a very clear vision of whatever has happened to the body during these few months, and... almost a hope. Almost a hope, it is as though someone told me that something could happen here. That's all.

And this, it was as though an answer to what the body had said (perhaps two or three days back), what I told you in the

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beginning: that it was quite ready to get dissolved (it is a perfect surrender) and it was quite ready to continue to live, under any circumstances whatever, but not in that condition. Not in that condition of decomposition. To that, however, there was no answer for two days, and then there came this Penetration. That is to say, the very next day I began to feel a little better, I could begin to... I could not even remain standing! I did not have the sense of balance; someone had to hold me. I had lost the sense of balance, I could not take a step. It was there that I protested. And from the next morning it began to recover.

Then came the 23rd. I saw X and I noticed that when he was there the body was quite interested; no, it was not the mental or the vital: they had left! I do not know if you are able to realise what that means.

Yes, it is fantastic.

A body without the mind, without the vital. It was in that condition when X came in. There were only these perceptions (towns, buildings, temples), it lived in soul states: there were the soul states of others, the soul states of the earth, the soul states... Soul states that were translated by images. It was interesting. I cannot say it was not interesting; it was interesting, but there was no contact with material life, very little: I could hardly eat, hardly walk... in short, it was something with which one had to busy oneself.

And then, at the contact of X, the body began to be interested in all that, to put questions quite spontaneously, it did not know why. It asked and asked: "Well, it is in that way that one is made..." it began to amuse itself.

It will take a little time.

When this Penetration came, the day before yesterday, I said to myself: "Ah!" I hoped that the curve would get accelerated and one would come out soon, but this night there was nothing. That makes me say that it will take some time more.

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But it is curious, your note of the 26th to the 27th adds this:

"...as though the whole body bathed in the forces that penetrated everywhere at the same time with a slight friction."

And then you say:

"The head down to the neck was the least receptive region."

It is curious that it was the least receptive.

No, it is the most mentalised region, isn't it? It is the mind that offers the obstacle.

It is curious, each time you had one of these great moments, or these big blows, if I may say so, each time it was the mental and the vital that were swept away. The first time also, in 1962.

Yes, each time.

I know, it is so: the mental and the vital have been the instruments for... grinding Matter—to grind and grind and grind in every way, the vital by its sensations, the mind by its thoughts—to grind and grind. But they seem to me to be passing instrument that will be replaced by other states of consciousness.

You understand, it is a phase of universal development, and they will be... they will fall away as instruments no longer useful.

And then I have had the concrete experience of what is this Matter ground by the vital and the mental, but without the vital and without the mental... it is another thing.

But this "perception of soul states", there were things... marvels! No mental conception, none, can be so wonderful, none.

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I have passed through moments... whatever one can feel, see, humanly, is nothing in comparison with that. There were moments... moments absolutely wonderful. But without thought, without thought.

There are still several notes there which I have not read out to you. You say:

"For man, in the majority of cases, consciousness begins with sensation. For the body, all the sensations were as if reduced, or rather suppressed: sight and hearing as if behind a veil. But extremely clear perception of the degree of harmony or disharmony. A translation in image: not thought, not even felt."

I told you, I have seen... it is not "seen" as a picture is seen; it is to be within, within a certain place. I never saw or felt anything so beautiful as that, and it was not felt, it was... I do not know how to explain it. There were moments absolutely wonderful, wonderful, unique. And this was not thought, I could not even describe—how to describe? You can begin to describe only when you begin to think.

There is yet another note:

"The state of consciousness of the body and the quality of its activity depend on the individual or individuals with whom it happens to be."

Ah! that was very interesting. It was very interesting because I saw it like this (gesture as of a film being unrolled), it was changing. Someone was approaching me: there was a change in it. Something happened to someone: there was a change in it. I had near me Y and Z ; my child, one day... I do not know what happened to them: they were superhuman; one day when

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probably in appearance I was in danger, I do not know, one day, during the whole day, images (not "images": these places where I was), it was so wonderfully beautiful, harmonious... it was inexpressible, inexpressible. And then, the least thing that changed in their consciousness, ah, there, all began to change! It was a kind of perpetual kaleidoscope, day and night. If one could note that down... it was unique; it was unique. And the body was inside there, yes, almost porous—porous, without resistance as though the thing was passing through.

I have had some most wonderful hours, I believe the most wonderful that one can have upon earth.

And then, it was so expressive and so revealing. So expressive. One night, for two hours, these temples of which I speak (it is not physical), so immense, so majestic... the living deities, my child! not images. And I know what it is. And then the state of consciousness of Eternity, oh!... as though above all circumstances.

There were things unique, but how to relate them?... Impossible, impossible, not even sufficient consciousness to be able to write.

The note continues:

"The seat and the field of its [the body's] consciousness as well as the quality of its activity change and vary according to the beings present, on a whole scale from the most material up to the most spiritual, passing through all varieties of intellectual activity.

"But the perception of the Presence is constant and associated with all states of consciousness, whatever they are..."

Ah! I became aware that the cells, everywhere like this, all the time, all the time were repeating their Mantra, all the time, all the time.

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"And the Mantra is repeated spontaneously and automatically in a kind of 'fluid' peace."

It is for this, well, one cannot say that it was suffering, one cannot say that it was ill; this is not possible, not possible.

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25 September 1968

I have found some old papers, I do not know what they are. There is an envelope from you.

It is a question on Aphorisms.

"When I hear of a righteous wrath, I wonder at man's capacity for self-deception."

Sri Aurobindo, Thoughts and Aphorisms

It is wonderful!

There was a question: "It is always 'in good faith' that one deceives oneself: it is always for the good of others that one acts or in the interest of humanity and for serving you, it goes without saying. How does one come to deceive oneself and how to know it truly?"¹

It is terribly true.

Even yesterday, without even reading it, I had a long vision on the subject; it is astonishing. But it was on such a different plane....

Yes, when you take the higher part of your mind as judge of your action, then you can "deceive yourself in good faith". That is to say, the mind is incapable of seeing the truth and it judges by its own capacity, which is limited—not only limited but unconscious of the truth; so for the mind, it is in good faith, it does as well as it can. It is this.

Naturally, for those who are fully conscious of their psychic, it is not possible to deceive themselves, for if they refer their problem to the psychic, they can from there have the divine

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answer. But even for those who are in relation with their psychic, the answer has not the same character as the mind's, which is precise, categorical, absolute, asserting itself; it is something more of a tendency than an assertion, something which can still have different interpretations in the mind.

I come back to my experience of yesterday. After having looked at it, I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to reproach a human being who does as well as he can according to his consciousness, for how can he go beyond his consciousness?... This is just the error that the majority of people make: they judge one another according to their own consciousness, but the other has not their consciousness! Therefore they cannot judge (I speak only of people of goodwill, naturally). According to the vision of a more total or higher consciousness, another person deceives himself, but according to the person himself, he does to the utmost whatever he believes he must do.

This amounts to saying that it is absolutely impossible to lay the blame upon anyone who acts sincerely according to his own limited consciousness. And in fact, if we come to that, everyone in the world has a limited consciousness, excepting the Consciousness. It is only the Consciousness which is not limited. But every manifestation is necessarily limited, unless it comes out of itself and unites itself with the supreme Consciousness, then there... In what conditions can that be done?

It is the problem of identification with the Supreme, which is the Supreme One—One which is All.

(Silence)

There is a whole side of human thought that has the conception that identification with the supreme Consciousness can come only by annulling the individual creation, but Sri Aurobindo precisely has said that it is possible without abolishing the creation. They have this notion that creation must be abolished, for they limit the creation to the human level—it is impossible for

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man, but it is possible for the supramental being.And it is this that will make the supramental being essentially different: he will be able, without losing a limited form, to unite his consciousness with the supreme Consciousness.

But for man, it is impossible. That I know.

As I have said, you have it, you have the experience, but as soon as you want to express it, it is gone, it becomes again... (gesture of being closed). That is to say, the substance of which we are built up is not sufficiently purified, enlightened, transformed (it does not matter what word) to express the supreme Consciousness without deforming it.

(Silence. Mother enters into an experience.)

It is a certain opacity in Matter, in the substance that makes it unable to manifest the Consciousness... and it is this same (I do not know how to say it) opacity that gives it the sense of existing.

This is part of the experience of these last days. I have lived for... I do not know, for weeks, in a kind of fluidity—transparent fluidity—and as this transparent fluidity is replaced by this something that I call now "opacity", there comes a kind of concretisation of the existence of the body.

So, the direct contact of the psychic being with the substance of the body, without any intermediary, gives the sensation... is it a "sensation"? I do not know; it is not a sensation, it is not a perception; it is a kind of "felt vision" (and this vision is very precise, very precise) of the value of vibrations in relation to a higher vibration which is (all that I can say about it) more directly the expression of the supreme Vibration.

It is very difficult to express, but the body is going through an experience which it never had; it is as though passing from an imprecision to a precision, from a kind of fluidity to... it is not a concrete thing, but from a thing fluid—fluid and imprecise—to a thing precise. All the happenings (no matter how small), which

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vary, are the occasion for a new perception. Before,everything was fluid and imprecise; now it is beginning to be more precise—more precise, more exact. But it loses a little of its fluidity.

It is very difficult to express.

I had never thought of it. It is strange, it is not willed. Just now I have had the experience. So it is not yet very clear.

Indeed, the mind gives a precision that is lacking when it is not there. Its role in creation is just to give precision, to explain, and at the same time to limit.

An ordinary mind could ask: "But what is the advantage of this imprecision?"

There is no advantage!

It is altogether certain that when the Supramental manifests, it will replace the mental precision (how to say it?) that diminishes—the precision that limits and therefore falsifies things in part—by a clarity of vision, another kind of vision that does not diminish. It is that which is being built up.

Indeed, it can be said (it is not exactly this): in order to give precision, the mind limits and separates; and evidently there is a precision that can come from a more exact vision, without division and without separation. And it is that precision which will be the precision of the supramental vision. With the precision will come, at the same time, the vision of the relation of all things to one another, without separating them.

But that is something in preparation. It comes as a flash, for a minute, and then lapses back into its old way.

The same can be said of the vital. The vital gives an intensity which nothing else seems capable of giving; well, this same intensity exists in the Supramental, but without division. It is an intensity that does not separate.

These two experiences I have had, but very momentarily. These are things that are being worked out just at present.

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23 November 1968

I have had an interesting experience.... Not last night, but the night before, someone, whom I shall not name, told me, "I am wholly down in the physical consciousness: no more meditation, and the Divine has become something up there, so far away." Then immediately, as he was speaking, the whole room got filled with the divine Presence. I told him, "Not up there: here, here itself." And at that moment, everything, the whole atmosphere... it was as though the air had changed into the divine Presence (Mother touches her hands, her face, her body), well, everything was touched, touched, pervaded, but with... the thing that was particularly there was a dazzling Light, a Peace like this (gesture of massiveness), a Power, and then a Sweetness... something... one had the feeling that it could melt a rock.

And it did not go away. It stayed.

It came in that way, and then it stayed.

And so the whole night it was like that—everything. Even now, the two are there: a little of the ordinary consciousness, as if in a mechanical way, but I have only to be quiet or concentrated for a moment and it is there. And it is the experience of the body, you understand, physical, material, the experience of the body: everything, everything is full, full; there is only That, and we are like... everything is as though shrivelled, a dried up rind, something like that, dried up. One has the feeling that things are (not entirely, but superficially) hardened, dried up, and that is why you do not feel That. That is why you do not feel Him; otherwise, all is That, That, there is nothing but That. You cannot breathe without breathing Him in; you move, it is within Him that you move; you are... everything, everything, the whole universe is within Him—but materially, physically, physically.

It is the cure for this "drying up" that I am now looking for.

I feel it is something fantastic, do you understand?

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And then when I listen, He tells me things also. I said to Him, "But then why do people always go up there?" And with the most extraordinarily unusual humour the answer comes: "Because they want me to be very far from their consciousness!" Things like that, but not formulated in such a precise manner: impressions only. Many a time—many—I had heard: "Why do they go so far in search of what is"—of course there are tenets that said: It is within you—"what is everywhere?"

I did not say it to this person, first because the experience was not, as it is now, a continuous thing.

And then there was this particularly: no new religions, no dogmas, no fixed teachings. One must avoid—one must avoid at all cost the thing becoming a new religion. Because as soon as it is formulated in a way that is elegant and imposing and has a force, it would be the end.

You have the feeling that He is everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere; there is nothing else. And we do not know it because we are... shrunken, I do not know how to say it, dried up. We have made great efforts (Mother laughs) to separate ourselves—and succeeded! Succeeded, but succeeded only in our consciousness, not in fact. In fact, It is there. It is there. There is nothing but That. Whatever we know, whatever we see, whatever we touch, it is as though bathing, floating in That; but it is penetrable; it is penetrable, quite penetrable: That passes through it. The sense of separation comes from this (Mother touches her forehead, indicating the mind).

The experience came, perhaps, because for several days there was a very great concentration to find out, not exactly the why or the how, but the fact, the fact of the separation, everything appearing so stupid, so ugly.... I was assailed, assailed by various living memories of all kinds of experiences (all kinds: books, pictures, cinemas, and life, people, things), memories of this body, all the memories that might be called "anti-divine",in which the body had the sensation of something that was repulsive or evil, like negations of the divine

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Presence. It began in that way; for two days I was like that, so much so that the body almost sank into despair. And then the experience came and after that it did not move. It did not budge. It came: brrff! finished, and it did not budge. Well, the experiences come and then they withdraw: it did not move. At this moment it is there. And then the body tries to be fluid (Mother makes a gesture of pouring herself out), it tries to melt; it tries, it understands what it is. It tries—it does not succeed, evidently! (Mother looks at her hands), but its consciousness knows.

Only, the experience has its effects: people have felt relief all of a sudden; one or two were completely cured. And when something goes wrong in the body, it need not ask: quite naturally it is set right.

And that has not even given to the body the need to do nothing and be wholly concentrated upon its experience: no, there is no desire, nothing at all. Like this, to float in a luminous immensity... which is within! It is not only outside: it is within. It is within. That (Mother touches her hands), that which appears as separate, truly the feeling is that it is... I do not know how to say it, but it is real only in the distortion of the consciousness, but not the human consciousness: something has happened, something has happened in the consciousness.... (Mother shakes her head) I do not understand.

(Silence)

All the theories and explanations and stories that lie at the base of each religion, all that seems to me... an amusement. And then one wonders, one wonders... I will tell you one thing: might it not be a comedy that the Lord has played to Himself?

But it is difficult to say. I have had days when I have lived truly all the horrors of creation (and in the consciousness of their horror), and then that has brought this experience, and... all the horror has disappeared.

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And these were not at all psychological things, but rather physical sufferings, yes, particularly physical suffering. I have seen it—a physical suffering that lasts, that does not stop, that lasts day and night. And then all of a sudden, instead of being in this state of consciousness, you are in that of this exclusive divine Presence. Pain gone! And it was physical, altogether physical, with a physical reason. Yes, the doctors would say, "It is because of this, because of that and that", quite a material thing, altogether physical; and pouf! it goes away.... The consciousness changes and back it comes.

If one remains sufficiently long in the true consciousness, the appearance, that is to say, what we call physical "fact", that itself disappears, not merely the pain.... I feel as though I had touched (there is no mind which understands, thank God!), I had touched the central experience.

Only, it is just a small beginning.

One would have the feeling, one would be certain of having touched the supreme Secret only if the physical were transformed.... According to the experience (just the little experience of a detail), it must be like that. And then, will it be at first one body in which this Consciousness will express itself, or should all, all be transformed?... A phenomenon of consciousness.

But it is so concrete, yes, it is that!

(Silence)

Only, the other consciousness is still there.... Now this morning, I saw a considerable number of people. As each one came, I was looking at him (there was no "I" that was looking: for him it was so, I was looking at him), the eyes were fixed and then it was the perception and the vision (but not the vision as one understands it: it is altogether a phenomenon of consciousness), the consciousness of the Presence, the Presence that penetrates this kind of shell, the hard thing; it penetrates, it penetrates, it is everywhere; and then when I am looking, when the eyes

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are fixed, that becomes something like a concentration.¹ But this is certainly an altogether temporary and intermediary state, because the other consciousness (the consciousness which sees things and deals with them, which is busy with them as usual, only with the perception of what is happening in the individual, what he is thinking—not so much what he is thinking, but what he is feeling, how he is), that is there. Evidently this too is necessary in order to maintain the contact, but...

Obviously, it is still an experience, it is not an established fact. What I mean by "established fact" is the consciousness established in such a way that nothing else exists, that that alone is present—it is not yet so.

(Long silence)

And you? What have you got to tell me?

I felt a change in the atmosphere.

Ah!

Oh, yes. It is now five or six days that I had the feeling of something overwhelming (Mother laughs), overwhelming. And last night, it was rather bizarre, at one moment I saw you, you were lying fully stretched upon the ground, flat. Then I came near you and asked, "Don't you want a cushion under your head?" You told me, "No, nothing." And you were lying flat on the ground.... What does that mean?

(Mother remains silent for a long time and does not answer.) But this notion of the Supramental "coming down", and a Consciousness "having entered", is our translation.... The experience

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came as the experience of an eternal fact, not at all as a thing that was happening. All that must be the outcome of states of consciousness, certainly. Whether there is something beyond, I do not know, but in any case, of this I had the positive experience. These are movements of consciousness. Why, how?... I do not know. Only, if one looks from the other side, the fact that something belonging to this earthly domain as it is has become conscious, gives the impression that something has "arrived".... I do not know if I can make myself understood... I mean to say that this body is absolutely like all the rest of the earth, but it happens that for some reason it has become conscious in the other way: well, that normally must translate itself in earthly consciousness as an "arrival", a "descent", a "beginning".... But is it a beginning? What is it that has "arrived"? ... You understand, there is nothing but the Lord (I call it "Lord" because of the convenience of language, for otherwise...), there is nothing but the Lord, there is nothing else, nothing else exists. All things happen within Him, consciously. And we are like... grains of sand in this Infinity; only we are the Lord with the capacity to be conscious of the Lord's consciousness. That is exactly what it is.

(Silence)

Before this experience, at the time when I was in the consciousness of all the sufferings, the horrors of physical life, at a certain moment something came (which did not "speak"; one is obliged to use words, but all this happens without mentalisation), it was an impression: if I translated, I would say, "Aren't you afraid of going mad?" You understand? It is only a translation. And then the body answered spontaneously: "We are all mad, we cannot become more mad than we are!" And forthwith, it became calm.

(Long silence)

It is here that this consciousness lies (Mother points to the chest).

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That (Mother points to the mind and above) is light, light (gesture of wideness). But in this body, it is here that it lies, this consciousness (Mother points again to the chest). I mean the consciousness... that one is in the Lord.

I know, the consciousness that is there knows that this way of speaking is altogether childish, but it prefers this childish way to something that would try to be exact and would be mental.

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27 November 1968

It continues.... The body feels that it is beginning to understand. Naturally, for it there is no thought, no thought at all; but these are states of consciousness—states of consciousness that complete each other, replace each other.... And it goes so far as to ask how one can know by thought; for it, the only way to know, to cognise, is consciousness. And this is becoming more and more clear from the general point of view, and it applies it, it applies this to itself; that is to say, a work is being done so that all parts of the body may become conscious, not merely conscious of the forces received, of the forces passing through it, but also of the action of its inner functioning.

It is becoming more and more precise.

And this above all: everything for it is a phenomenon of consciousness, and when it wants to do something, it almost no longer understands what it means to know how to do it. It is necessary that it be conscious of the way to do it. And not only for itself but for all the people around it. It has become such an evident fact.... So, to learn something from somebody else—for example, to learn the way to do a thing: for it, it is only by doing the thing with the consciousness that it applies that it can learn. And what someone explains, what someone else can explain, it seems... this appears hollow—hollow, empty.

And it is becoming more and more so.

(Silence)

You did not answer, Mother, my question about the vision I had of you lying flat on the ground...

(Mother laughs) I suppose it is the symbol of perfect surrender. I lay on my back, isn't it so?

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On your back, upon the ground.

It is the attitude of perfect receptivity in total abandon. It must be the figurative expression of the attitude of the body.

Because truly, I do not know if there are "bits", organs that have still what may be called the spirit of independence, but truly the body has made its surrender; that is to say, it no longer has its own will—it has no desire, no will of its own, and it is as though all the while "listening", all the while, to catch the Indication.

It is beginning to know exactly the spot or the function that is not... I cannot say "transformed", because it is a big word, but that is not in harmony with the rest and creates a disorder. This is becoming a perception of every moment. Whenever there occurs something which seems abnormal, there is the understanding, the consciousness of why it happened and where it should lead, of how an apparent disorder can lead to a greater perfection. Yes, it is that. It is a very small beginning. But it has begun. It has begun to be a bit conscious. And not only for itself alone, but for others also, it has begun: to see how, to perceive in what way the Consciousness (with a capital C) acts in others; and sometimes indeed (the words follow long after the experience) there is no longer the perception of division; there is the perception of diversity and this becomes very interesting.... The diversity which, if it were not for what one might call the "hitch" of separation, would, in the true consciousness, be perfectly harmonious and would make a whole that would be perfection itself (Mother makes the sign of a circle). It is the hitch—what has happened?... What has come to pass?...

It remains to be known if for some reason it was necessary or if it is an accident—but how can that be an accident! For the moment (there is no thought, so it is a little vague), for the moment, there is the impression... one might say simply like this: an acquisition of a formidable consciousness, which was acquired, paid for, at the very great price of every suffering and

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disorder.... Yesterday or today (I do not remember now), yesterday I think, at a certain moment the problem became very acute, and then it was as though the divine Consciousness told me: "In all this suffering, it is I who am suffering"—the Consciousness, isn't it?—"it is I who am suffering, but in another manner than that of yours." I do not know how to say it, it was like this, the impression that the divine Consciousness experienced what for us is suffering; it existed—it existed for the divine Consciousness—but in a different way than for our own consciousness; and then there was an attempt to make one understand the consciousness of all at the same time, simultaneously, everything (one might simply say to express oneself): suffering, the most acute disorder, and Harmony, the most perfect Ananda—the two together, experienced together. Naturally that changes the nature of the suffering.

But all this is very conscious and this is something like prattling. This is not the translation of what is.

There is also the perception that gradually, through all these experiences, each aggregate (which is for us a body) is accustoming itself so that it may have the capacity to bear the true Consciousness. That does need a movement of adaptation.

But Sri Aurobindo has written also, in Thoughts and Glimpses, I believe, that suffering was the preparation for Ananda.¹

Yes. I must say that there are many things in Sri Aurobindo which I am now beginning to understand in a very different way.

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(Silence)

The feeling of being on the point of touching something and then... it escapes. Something is missing.

Still a long, long, long way to go.

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21 December 1968

A question has been put. I translate it: "While describing her experiences of last August and September, the Mother spoke of the exclusion of the mind and the vital. Why must they be eliminated for a rapid and effective transformation of the body? Does not the supramental consciousness act upon them also?"

Certainly it acts, it has already acted for a long time. It is because the body is accustomed—was accustomed—to obeying the vital and particularly the mind, and therefore this was in order to change its habit, so that it would obey only the higher consciousness. It is for that, so that the thing would go faster. In people it is through the mind and the vital that That acts, but I have said it was also more sure. As an experience this is rather risky. But it increases the tempo considerably, for normally one has to act upon the body through the other two, whereas in this way, when the two are not there, That acts directly. That's all.

The procedure is not recommended! Each time the occasion arises, I repeat it; people should not imagine that they should try it (they would not be able to do so, but that does not matter), it is not recommended. One must take the necessary time. It was only because of the mounting years... so that it would go quicker.

(Silence)

What is curious is that there are, as it were, demonstrations of the natural tendency of the body (I suppose it is not the same for all bodies: it depends upon how the body has been built, that is to say, father, mother, antecedents, etc.) a demonstration of the body left to itself. For example, this one has a kind of imagination (it is something queer), a dramatic imagination: all the time

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it has the feeling that it is living through catastrophes; and then, with the faith it always has, the catastrophe is transformed into a realization—absurd things like that. So for a time, it is left to this imagination (this is what has happened these days) and when it is completely tired of this stupid activity, it prays, yes, with all its intensity, so that the thing may stop. Immediately, just that, hop! it does this (gesture), it turns around straightaway and goes into a contemplation—not distant, but quite close—of this wonderful Presence that is everywhere.

It is like this, like this (Mother quickly turns two fingers), it does not take time, there is no preparation or anything; it is hop! hop! in this way (same gesture), as though to show the stupidity of the body. It is something altogether idiotic, like a demonstration through evidence of the stupidity of the body left to itself, and then of this wonderful Consciousness that comes, in which all that vanishes... like something which has no consistency, no reality, and which vanishes. And like a proof that it is not merely in the imagination, but that it is in the fact: proof of the power so that all this... vain dream of life as it is (which has become for the consciousness of this body something so frightful) can be changed into a wonder, like this, simply by the reversal of the consciousness.

The experience is repeated in all the details, in all the domains, as a demonstration through fact. And it is not a "long process" of transformation, it is as though something is reversed all of a sudden (Mother turns two fingers), and instead of seeing ugliness, falsehood, suffering and all that, suddenly it lives in bliss. And all the things are the same, nothing has moved, except the consciousness.

And so there remains (it is what lies in front, what is probably coming): how is the experience to be translated materially?... For the body itself, it is quite evident: during, say, one hour, or two or three, it suffered much, it was quite miserable (not a moral suffering, an altogether physical suffering), and then all of a sudden, brrff! all gone!... The body apparently has

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remained the same (Mother looks at her hands) in its appearance, but in place of an inner disorder which makes it suffer, everything is going well and there is a great peace, a great calm, and everything is going well. But this, it is for one body—how does it act upon others? It begins to notice the possibility in other consciousnesses. From the moral point of view (that is to say, in respect to attitudes and character and reactions), it is quite visible; even from the physical point of view sometimes: all of a sudden something disappears—as we had the experience when Sri Aurobindo removed a pain (gesture as if a hand comes and takes away the pain): one wondered... "Ah! gone, vanished, like that." But it is not constant, not general, it is only to show that it can be so, by the fact that it is so in one case or another, to show that it can be like that.

One might say it in this way: the body has the feeling that it is imprisoned within something—yes, imprisoned—imprisoned as though in a box, but it sees through; it sees and it can also act (in a limited way) through something which is still there and which must disappear. This "something" gives the feeling of an imprisonment. How is it to disappear? That I do not know yet.

One has to find the relation between the consciousness in one body and the consciousness of all. And to what extent there is dependence and to what extent there is independence, that is to say, up to what point the body can be transformed in its consciousness (and as a result, necessarily, in its appearance) without... without the transformation of all—up to what point? And to what extent the transformation of all is necessary for the transformation of one body. This remains to be discovered.

(Silence)

If one were to tell everything, it would take hours....

But this "box" you spoke of, it is a universal box...

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Yes!

I have often had the feeling that all these so-called human laws or "natural" laws are merely an immense morbid imagination collectively fixed—that is the box.

Yes, exactly so, exactly so.

Then, how...

Yes, to what extent can an individual light act upon that?... There is the problem.... I do not know.

(Silence)

The vision is very clear, of the collective progress (our field of experience is the earth) that has taken place upon earth; but considering the past, it would seem that a formidable time is still needed for all to be ready to change.... And yet, it is almost a promise that... there is going to be a sudden change (which is translated in our consciousness as a "descent", an action that "happens", something that was not acting till now and which has begun to act—in our consciousness, it is translated in that way).

We shall see.

For the body itself, there is a growing experience, that is to say, a more and more precise experience at the same time of its fragility (extreme fragility: just a little movement could stop the present existence), and at the same time, at the same time, simultaneously, the sense of an eternity!—that there is an eternal existence. The two at the same time.

It is truly a period of transition!

(Silence)

Once or twice, when the body's... what one might call its agony

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to know, was very intense, when it had the full sense of the Presence, this sense of the Presence everywhere, inside, everywhere (Mother touches her face, her hands), it asked how (not even why, it had no such curiosity), how could there be the present disorder? Well, when it was very intense, very intense, once or twice it had the feeling: Once this is found out, it is immortality. Then it begins thus to push, to push in order to catch the secret, it has the feeling that it is going to be found.... And then there is a kind of lull in the aspiration: "Peace, peace, peace..." Yes, once or twice the impression: "Oh! It is about to be understood" ("understood", that is to say, lived; it is not "understood" with the thought: lived) and then... (gesture of escape). And a Peace which comes down.

But the feeling: it will be tomorrow. But tomorrow, which tomorrow? Not tomorrow according to our measure.

We shall see.

But the experiences are innumerable, with all the aspects. It would take hours and still one always has the feeling that the word, well, falsifies something. It is no longer so simple, no longer so beautiful, and no longer so clear. It becomes complicated.

The body has absolutely wonderful moments; it has hours of agony. And all of a sudden, a wonderful moment. But that moment cannot be explained.... If one is to judge the degree of growth by the proportion of time, well... the wonderful moment lasts a few minutes, and there are hours of agony. There are even hours of suffering. And then if one judged the proportion accordingly, it is still very, very, very, extremely far away....

But what is to be done? One has to go on, that is all.

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1 January 1969

About the descent of what Mother later identified as the superman consciousness (la conscience du surhomme).

In the night it came slowly and on waking up this morning, there was as though a golden dawn, and the atmosphere was so light. The body felt: "Well, it is truly, truly new." A golden light, transparent and... benevolent. "Benevolent" in the sense of a certainty—a harmonious certainty. It was new.

There you are.

And when I say "Bonne année" to people, it is this which I pass on to them. And this morning, I have passed my time like this, spontaneously, saying: "Bonne année, Bonne année." So...

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4 January 1969

On the first, something truly strange happened.... And I was not the only one to feel it, some others also have felt it. It was just after midnight, but I felt it at two o'clock and the others at four o'clock in the morning. It was... last time I spoke to you a few words about it, but what is surprising is that it had absolutely no correspondence at all to anything I was expecting (I was expecting nothing), to other things which I had felt. It was something very material, I mean it was very external—very external—and it was luminous, with a golden light. It was very strong, very powerful; but even so, its character was a smiling benevolence, a peaceful delight and a kind of opening out into delight and light. And it was like a "Bonne année", like a greeting. It took me by surprise. It lasted, for at least three hours I felt it. Afterwards I was no longer busy with it, I do not know what happened. But I told you a word or two about it and I spoke of it also to two or three persons: they all had felt it. That is to say, it was very material. They all had felt it, like this, a kind of joy, but a joy friendly, powerful and... oh! very, very gentle, very smiling, very benevolent.... I do not know what it is. I do not know what it is, but it is a kind of benevolence, therefore it was something very close to the human. And it was so concrete, so concrete! as though it had a savour, so concrete it was. Afterwards I did not occupy myself with it any more, except that I spoke to two or three persons about it: all had felt it. Now, I do not know if it is mixed or if... It has not departed; one does not feel as though the thing came in order to go back.

It was much more external than anything I feel usually, much more external.... Very little mental, that is to say, there was no feeling of a "promise" or... No, it would be rather... my own impression was that of an immense personality—immense,

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that is to say, for it the earth was small, small like this (gesture, as though holding a small ball in her palm), like a ball—an immense personality, very, very benevolent, which came for... (Mother seems to lift this ball gently from the hollow of her hands). It gave the impression of a personal divinity (and yet it was... I do not know) who comes to help, and so strong, so strong and at the same time so gentle, so all-embracing.

And it was very external: the body felt it everywhere, everywhere (Mother touches her face, her hands), everywhere.

What has become of it? I do not know.

It was the beginning of the year. As if someone having the dimensions of a god (that is to say, someone) came to say "Bonne année", with all the power to make it a Bonne année. It was like this.

But what was it?...

So concrete...

I do not know.

Is it... is it the personality—because it had no form, I did not see any form, there was only what it had brought (Mother feels the atmosphere), the sensation, the feeling: these two, sensation and feeling—and I asked myself if it was not the supramental personality... who will then manifest himself later in material forms.

The body, this body, feels since that moment (the thing has entered into it everywhere, deeply), it feels much more joyous, less concentrated, more lively, in a happy, smiling expansiveness. For example, it is speaking more easily. There is a note—a constant note of benevolence. A smile, yes, a benevolent smile, and all that with a great force.... I do not know.

You felt nothing?

I had a feeling of contentment that day.

Ah! It is that. Yes, it is that.

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Is it the supramental personality?... that will incarnate itself in all those who have a supramental body....

It was luminous, smiling, and so benevolent through powerfulness; that is to say, generally in the human being benevolence is something a little weak, in this sense that it does not like battle, it does not like fight; but this is nothing of the kind! A benevolence that imposes itself (Mother brings her fists down upon the arms of her chair).

It has interested me because it is altogether new. And so concrete! Concrete like this (Mother touches the arms of her chair), like what the physical consciousness usually considers as "others", concrete like that. That is to say, it did not pass through an inner being, through the psychic being, it came directly upon the body.

What is it?... Yes, perhaps it is this... Since it came, the feeling of the body is a kind of certitude, a certitude as though now it was no longer in anxiety or uncertainty to know: "What will it be? What will the Supramental be like? Physically, what will it be physically?" The body used to ask itself. Now it does not think of it any more, it is contented.

Is it something that will suffuse the bodies that are ready?

Yes, I believe so, yes. I have the feeling that it is the formation which is going to enter, going to express itself—to enter and express itself—in the bodies... that will be the bodies of the supramental.

Or perhaps... perhaps the superman, I do not know. The intermediary between the two. Perhaps the superman: it was very human, but a human in divine proportions, I must say.

A human without weaknesses and without shadows: it was all light—all light and smiling and... sweetness at the same time.

Yes, perhaps the superman.

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(Silence)

I do not know why, for the last few moments I have been telling myself insistently: people who will not know how things have really occurred will say, when this supramental force will have entered the earth atmosphere, will have entered into them, they will say: "Ah well, it is we who have done all that!"

(Mother laughs) Yes, probably.

It is we, it is our fine humanity that has flowered!

Yes, surely. It is always like that.

That is why I say—I say that after all we are here, every one of us, and we have finally to face all the difficulties, but it is a Grace, for we, we shall know how—and we shall not cease to be, is it not so? We shall know how the thing was done.

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8 January 1969

Did I tell you that I have identified this consciousness?

When you spoke last time, you had identified it.

Yes, but I had said "the supramental consciousness".

Afterwards you had said "perhaps the superman".

Yes, it is that. It is the descent of the superman consciousness. I had the assurance later on.

It was the first of January after midnight. I woke up at two in the morning, surrounded by a consciousness, so concrete, and new in the sense that I had never felt it before. And it lasted, absolutely concrete, present, for two or three hours, and afterwards it spread out and went about to find people who could receive it. And I knew that it was the consciousness of the superman, that is to say, the intermediary between man and the supramental being.

That has given to the body a kind of assurance and confidence. That experience has, as it were, stabilised the body and if it keeps the true attitude, every support is there to help it.

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18 January 1969

The other day when X came, as soon as he entered (he was standing there), this atmosphere came, from here up to there (Mother makes a semi-circular gesture in front of herself), surrounded me like a wall. It was thick, it was luminous, and then, it was forceful! To me it was visible, it was very material, as though a rampart, nearly of this thickness (gesture indicating about forty centimetres), and it remained there all the time he was there.

So, it is very consciously active.

It is as though a projection of power. And it has now become a habitual thing.

There is within it a consciousness—a very precious thing—which gives lessons to the body, teaching it what it must do, that is to say, the attitude it must have, the reaction it must have.... I have already told you many a time that it is very difficult to find the process of transformation when there is no one to give you any indications; well, it was as though the reply; it came to tell the body: "Take this attitude, do this in this way, do that in that way", and so the body is satisfied, it is completely reassured, it can no longer be mistaken.

It is very interesting.

It came as a "mentor", it was practical, quite practical: "This thing must be rejected, that must be accepted; this must be made general, that..."; all the inner movements. And it even becomes very material in the sense that it says with regard to some vibrations: "This you must encourage", to others: "That must be canalised", to others again: "This must be removed." Little indications like that.

(Silence)

In one of the old talks I had said (when I was speaking there in

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the Playground), I had said: Surely the superman will be at first a being of power, so that he may defend himself."¹ It is that, it is that experience, it came back as an experience; and it is because it came back as an experience that I remembered that I had said it.

Yes, you had said: It is Power that will come first...

Yes, first Power.

Because those beings will have to be protected.

Yes, exactly so. Well, I have first had the experience for this body: it came like a rampart, and it was mighty! It was a mighty power! Altogether out of proportion to the apparent action.

It is very interesting.

And also this is why, now that I see the experience, I see that the result is much more precise, concrete, because the mind and the vital are not there. Because that takes their place—and with all this quiet assurance of knowing, which comes at the same time. It is interesting.

(Silence)

You have something to say?

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I was wondering how this consciousness will act individually, outside of you, for example.

In the same way. Only, those who are not accustomed to observing themselves objectively will notice it less, that is all. It will pass as though through cotton, as it always does so. But otherwise it is the same.

I mean to say: this consciousness will not act so much on the mind as on the body?

I do hope that it will make one think correctly.

Fundamentally it is a guide.

Yes, it is a guide.

Well, it is a consciousness.

For me, the Consciousness limits itself to special activities, for special cases, but it is always the Consciousness; just as in the human consciousness it limits itself almost to nothing, so also in certain states of being, in certain activities, it limits itself to a certain way of being in order to fulfil Its action: and I have very much asked It: "If I could be guided at every minute", because that gains time enormously, does it not?—instead of having to study, to observe, to... Well, now I find that it has happened like that.

(Silence)

There is a very marked change in those who have been touched on the first of January: it is particularly... indeed a precision and a certitude that has entered into their way of thinking.

It was there (Mother looks at the region of the heart). It is curious, as though I was given the charge of putting it into contact with all those who come near me.

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15 February 1969

This atmosphere, this consciousness¹ is very active, and active as a mentor, I have already said. And that continues. And then, for several hours in the early morning of one of these last days, it was... Never, never had the body been so happy; there was the complete Presence, absolute freedom, and a certitude: that had no importance—these cells, other cells (Mother makes gestures to this side and that, indicating all bodies), it was life everywhere, consciousness everywhere. Absolutely wonderful. It came without effort, it went away simply because... I was too busy. And that does not come at will—what comes at will is what may be called a "copy": it has the appearance, but it is not the Thing. The Thing... there is something which is altogether independent of our aspiration, our will, our effort... altogether. And this something seems absolutely all-powerful, in the sense that none of the difficulties of the body exist. Everything disappears at this time. But aspiration, concentration, effort... all that is to no purpose. It is the divine sense, yes, it is to have the divine sense. During these few hours (three or four), I understood absolutely what it was to have the divine consciousness in the body. And then this body here, that body there, that body there (gestures to this side and that side and all around Mother's body), it did not matter; it went about from one body to another, altogether free and independent, knowing the limitations and possibilities of each body—absolutely wonderful, I have never, never before had this experience. Absolutely wonderful. It went away because I was so busy that... And it did not go away because it came simply to show how it was—it is not that; it is because life and the organisation of life swallows you up.

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I know it is there (gesture behind). I know it, but... but that, I understand, is a transformation. And clearly the persons, not a vague thing: clearly, that could express itself in this person, express itself in that person, express itself (same gesture here and there), clearly, wholly. With a Smile!...

And then the cells themselves told of their effort to be transformed, and there was a Calm there.... How to explain this? The body told of its aspiration and of its will to prepare itself; and it did not ask, but made the effort to be what it ought to be: all that always with this question (the body does not put the question, it is... the environment, the surrounding—the world, as if the world put the question): "Will it continue or will it have to get dissolved?"... Itself, it is like this (gesture of self-abandon, palms opened upward); it says, "What Thou willest, Lord." But then, the body knows that it has been decided and it is not to be told to it. It accepts, it is not impatient, it accepts, it says, "It is all right, it shall be what Thou willest." But That which knows and That which does not respond is... something that cannot be expressed. It is... yes, I believe the only word that describes the sensation one has, is: it is an Absolute—an Absolute. Absolute. It is that, the sensation: of being in the presence of the Absolute. The Absolute: absolute Knowledge, absolute Will, absolute Power.... Nothing, nothing can resist it. And then, it is an Absolute which is (one has this kind of sensation, concrete) of compassion! But by the side of that, all that we consider as kindness, compassion... pooh! it is nothing at all. That is Compassion with power absolute, and... it is not Wisdom, it is not Knowledge, it is... It has nothing to do with our procedure. And it is That, everywhere. That is everywhere. And it is the experience of the body; and to That, the body gives itself entirely, totally, asking for nothing, nothing at all. Only one aspiration (same gesture, palms opened upward): to be able to be That, what That wants—to serve That; not even so: to be That.

But that state, which lasted for several hours, nothing similar to that happiness has this body ever felt during the ninety-one

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years it has been here upon earth: freedom, absolute power and no limits (gesture here and there, everywhere), no limits, no impossibilities, nothing. It was... all other bodies were itself. There was no difference, it was only a play of consciousness (gesture as of a great Rhythm) going about.

That is all.

(Long silence)

Apart from that, however, the work is becoming more and more exacting. But I feel (that is to say, the body feels very well) that it is part of the training.

It looks like that: it must hold on, the body, or otherwise so much the worse, it will be for another time.

All the human excuses appear as childishness.

It is something very strange, all the qualities and all the defects of man appear as childishness—foolishness. It is curious. And it is not a thought, it is a concrete sensation. It is like a substance without life; all ordinary things are like a substance lacking life—the true life. Artificial and false. It is strange.

It is not so much in others, it is not that: it is the inner training. And this true Consciousness, this true Attitude is something so for-mi-da-bly strong, powerful, in a peace so smiling! So smiling that it cannot be annoyed, it is absolutely impossible... so smiling, so smiling... and watching.

(Silence)

The special character of this new consciousness is: no half measures, no approximations. That is its character. The idea "Oh yes, we shall do it, and little by little we..."—no, no, not like that; it is Yes or No, either you can or you cannot.

(Silence)

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Truly it is a Grace, you see, as if: not to lose time—not to lose time. It must be done or...

But this tremendous Power, it is that above all; and it is with a compassion! a gentleness!... No, there are no words, we have no words to describe that, something... Nothing but just to be attentive and... it is blissfulness. Nothing but just to turn one's attention towards that side, immediately there is the bliss. And I understand (that has made me understand certain things), we have heard of people who in the midst of torture enjoyed bliss—it is like that. A beatitude.

There you are, it is that (Mother hands out a white hibiscus, which she has named "Grace").

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22 February 1969

This talk begins with Mother's comments about her Darshan Message of February 21st.

"It is only immutable peace that can make possible eternity of existence."

I remember I wrote this after having had the experience that the immobility of the Inconscient, the beginning of creation, is, one cannot say a "projection", but a kind of inanimate or inconscient symbol of the Eternity, of the Immobility—it is not "immobility", words are worth nothing, it is between immobility and stability. I have written here "peace", but "peace" is a poor word, it is not that, it is infinitely more than peace, it is the "something" (even the word "eternal" gives a limited sense, all words are impossible), the "Something" which is the Origin of all things and the beginning of the evolution of the manifestation to rejoin the Origin (Mother draws a curve joining the one to the other).

I have the impression that it was at the Playground, and it was as though the inconscient immobility—the immobility of the Inconscient, the inert immobility of the Inconscient—were the starting-point of the evolution and it was like the translation of this... how to say it? (this is also another kind of immobility! but an immobility containing all movements) of this immobility of the Origin, this stability, and that the whole evolution is so that this may find back That, with the whole passage (same gesture of a great curve). It was a very clear vision. I remember having written this, and when I read it the experience came back. Well, we speak always of a "fall"—but it is not that! It is not at all that. If there is a fall, it is at the moment when the vital turned into a will for independence: it is not at the beginning, it occurs altogether on the way.... In the ancient tradition, they

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say it is the "Conscient" that became the Inconscient because it was "cut off from the Origin"—this gives me the impression of stories told to children.

It is curious, in the silence and in the vision, it is very clear and very luminous, understandable; but as soon as you want to tell it, it becomes foolish.

But then, in the creation even as it is now, it is true that the word "peace" is perhaps the nearest (although it is not that, it is quite small and restricted, it is not that). As soon as something goes wrong or out of order, it is that which comes as the remedy, within.

(Silence)

Oh! Words are worth nothing, I do not know what to do, I do not know if it is because I have not enough of them or because truly... all mental expression seems artificial. It gives the feeling of a lifeless film. It is curious. And all language belongs to that domain. When I want to relate this experience... with some people I enter into a relation very, very well, very easily, in silence, and I tell them infinitely more things than I would be able to with words; it is more supple, more exact, more profound.... Well! Words, phrases, things written leave me with the impression of a two-dimensional picture, the ordinary picture; and that, that contact which I have in a way with people when I do not talk, that adds the depth and something more true (it is not, it is far from being altogether true, but it is more true) and there is a depth.

(Silence)

That is why the experiences are difficult to recount. They are no longer separate experiences which come one after another; it is like a single and global movement (circular gesture) of transformation, and it has a great intensity.

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In the ordinary functioning of life, there is this feeling that "it goes well", which is translated in people as a feeling of good health, and then there is a lack of balance, lack of order; and this opposition now seems altogether artificial: it is only a continuous movement which changes over from one kind of vibration to another kind whose origin is much more (how to say it? it is not "deeper", it is not "higher", and "truer" gives only one side, it is not that), well, "superior" in some way—words are foolish, altogether foolish.

It is like this, it is all the time like this. And then one is drawn to one spot or to another; it is simply a play of our consciousness, but for the consciousness that sees the whole, it is a continuous movement, and a global one towards... yes, it is this, it is in order that this inert Inconscient becomes the absolute Conscient.... I do not know, I have a vague impression that it has been discovered (here, absolutely on the earth, upon the earth), it has been discovered that a certain intensity of movement (that is to say, what we call "rapidity") is translated by an impression of immobility. I have a vague impression that I have been told so. But this corresponds to something. What I have called "peace" in the message, what is felt as peace, is an acme of movement, but general—harmonious and general.

As soon as one speaks, it looks like a caricature.

(Long silence)

I shall end by falling silent!

I hope not!

(Mother laughs) But it is so poor, all this.

Later on we may speak in colours.

Ah! That would be pretty....

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It goes to such an extent that when I am told something, when, for example, something which I have said is repeated to me, I no longer understand it... I try my best, but it is the whole intensity of the Consciousness that seeks to express itself, so when it is repeated, this intensity is not there any more and it has no sense any longer.

But precisely this message, when it was read out to me, brought back the experience; therefore I know how it was, and then the word "peace" contained so much!... Now it is no longer there.

What is the word that I used?

Peace, yes.

Immutable?

Yes: "It is only immutable peace..."

Yes, and then the experience was that this same immutable peace (which was neither"peace" nor "immutable"! but it was "something"), this very Thing was there within the inconscient inertia. And it was so concrete!... And the whole curve of creation was there so that this and That might be apparently one (but it is one—it is one). One might say (but it turns into phrases, these are words): to become conscious of one's identity. But it is a phrase.

(Long silence)

The experience is so intensely concrete that as soon as I begin to speak, it comes down. Up there (gesture upward), the consciousness is clear, and then...

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17 May 1969

Is it possible that the individuality gets dissolved after death?

These notions about individuality... they are very much changed for me, very much. Even the whole of this morning... But for a long time, for at least a month, it has been different.

When people speak of individuality, there is always as though... at least in the background, some separation, that is to say, something existing independently and having its own destiny. But now, as the consciousness in this body knows it, it is almost like a pulsation of "something" which for the moment has a separate action, but is at bottom, in essence always one; as something which is projected like this (gesture of expansion) for the moment with a form, and then which can (gesture of contraction), can at will annul this form. It is very difficult to explain, but in any case the feeling of the permanence of the separation has disappeared altogether. The universe is an exteriorisation (same gesture of pulsation) of the Supreme Consciousness; it is our incapacity for a total vision which gives us the sense of fixity; it is not there, it is something like pulsations or... in fact, it is a play of forms—there is only one Being. There is only one Being, only one, only one Consciousness, only one Being. The separation, it is truly... I do not know what has happened. And it is this that has done all the mischief—all the unhappiness, all the misery.... This body has just passed, for some days, through a series of experiences (too long to narrate), through all the states of consciousness that one can pass through, starting from the sense of the sole reality of that (Mother pinches her skin with her hand), of the substance, with all the miseries, all the suffering resulting from the belief that Matter is the sole reality; from that up to the liberation. It has been, hour after hour, a labour.

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But even before this, the consciousness of the cells had realised the unity, the true essential unity, which could become total if this sort of illusion disappeared. Indeed, the illusion that created this misery was lived so intensely that it became almost unbearable, with all the horrors and frightfulnesses created by it in the human consciousness and upon earth.... There had been things... frightful. And just after—just after—the liberation.

What still remains to be lived, that is to say, the experience still to be realised is... the next forward move of creation, of Matter—the next step to return to the true Consciousness. That, it is...

It seems decided that something like a beginning, or a trial experience, is about to be gone through (Mother touches her body).

It is a question of the intensity of faith and of the power to bear which this faith gives. All depends on the capacity of passing through the necessary experiences.

In any case, all the old notions, the old ways of understanding things, all that is gone, gone for good, has passed away.

And all that necessarily is the way of return; one had to go through that, one has still to go through that—but not the same thing, but always moving forward until one can... until that is capable of living the Truth. I do not know, the feeling is that it is moving as fast as it is possible to go; truly the Consciousness is at work making us move as fast as it is possible. It is no longer the hour of a lingering somnolence.

(Long silence)

But by individuality I do not mean an ego; I mean the something which remains the same through all lives, the same thing which progresses through all lives, following up its growth.

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That, it is the Supreme.

Yes, but there is something which...

It is the Supreme conscious of Himself...

Yes.

... partially.

Yes, that's it, there is something...

The Supreme conscious of Himself partially.

That follows a path of growth.

Yes, that is the process.

It is the process which has been used for the evolution.

Yes, it is that which I call individuality.

That is understood. That is the process, that has been the process of the creation.

Because it was the process of the creation, men confused it with...

Separation.

Separation, ego.

But that,¹ it is evident. That remains, that cannot disappear.

(Silence)

What is going to happen, I do not know.

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The body is not concerned at all with itself; it is like this (Mother opens out her hands), it is all the time: "What Thou willest, Lord, what Thou willest"... and with a smile and a perfect joy—like this, like this, like this (Mother makes a gesture indicating this side of the world or the other side or all kinds of other sides). Very strangely, it has been given a consciousness having nothing to do with time; you understand, there is no more "when it was not", no more "when it will not be", no more... it is not like that, it is wholly something moving. But truly this is very interesting. And all, all these reactions, sensations, feelings, all this has changed altogether, changed even in appearance. It is a different thing.

Well, the states in which one could be when one is in the highest consciousness, those that united, those that were automatically one with the Supreme Consciousness, that possessed the consciousness of all—that state has become the natural state of the body. Effortless, spontaneous: it cannot be otherwise. So what is going to happen, how is that going to be translated? I do not know.

It is contrary to all habits.

Does this consciousness know what has to be done materially?... I do not know. But the body does not concern itself with it; it goes on doing from second to second what it has got to do, without putting questions. No complications, no planning, nothing, nothing.

There you are.

We shall see; it is interesting.

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24 May 1969

It is difficult... in English one would say: it's not a joke.... Everything, everything is getting disorganised, everything is getting disorganised. One sees very well, however, that the disorganisation is moving towards a higher organisation, that is to say, a widening, a liberation—that is true.... But nothing, nothing is going the ordinary way.

(Silence)

The body has reached a state of consciousness in which it knows that death may make a change, but not—it is not a disappearance (not a disappearance of the consciousness). And then, this idea that the vast majority of people have: the repose of death (Mother places her hand upon her mouth, as if before a mighty stupidity). Not even this consolation. For the majority of people it is the contrary of repose. And so there also, but in a way still more acute and intense: "The only, only, one hope is... Lord, Thou. To be Thou, may there be nothing but Thee, and may this separation, this difference disappear; it is monstrous! May it disappear, so that it be as Thou willest: Thyself in full activity, or Thyself in complete repose, it has no importance of any kind; either this way or that, it has no importance at all, no importance at all. What is important is to be Thou."

This is the absolute certitude (Mother closes both her fists) that there is only one door of exit from all that, one only—only one, there are no two; there is no choice, not several possibilities but only one: it is... the supreme Door, the Marvel of Marvels. All the rest... all the rest, it is not possible.

And all that, it is the experience of this (Mother points to her body); it is not mental, it is altogether, altogether material.

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I am seeing, for the consciousness of people is open to me (there is no difference, it is altogether open), so I am seeing: in the vast majority, the vast majority, the idea, when things become truly painful: "Oh!"—there is always this sort of idea—"Oh, one day, it will all end." What nonsense!

(Silence)

But why? Why?... From time to time the body becomes anxious: Why? Why, why all this, why? When it sees, when it is in contact with suffering, with people, with miseries and difficulties, why, why? Why... why?

Since this creation can become a wonder, one with the supreme Consciousness, why, why then was there the need of all that (Mother describes a circle coming back to the starting-point)?

From time to time, this happens to it.

In fact, evidently it is meaningless, for it serves no purpose—it is like that, it is like that. All the "why's" will not prevent it from being like that. All that one has to do is to find out the means that it may no longer be so, that's all.

(Silence)

I think always of Buddha and of all of them: they go to get dissolved in the Lord and then there will be nothing! (Mother holds her head within her hands.)

And then, in order to make their theory appear something like truth, they say (Mother laughs) that it is an "error"; they do not see the absurdity of their theory, as if the Supreme Lord could commit an error... and had only to repent and withdraw!

These people, all these people, the more they are convinced, the more one has the feeling that they have closed themselves off with blinkers.

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(Silence)

But, in fact, your body is a symbol of the whole earth.

It looks like that.

So everything comes to you to get purified.

Yes, but that does not console me.

Yes, but I have the feeling that once a thing, whatever it is, has touched you, it cannot go back into the world the same as it was before.

It looks like that. Extraordinary things are happening all the time. All the time, all the time, at every minute I hear of things really extraordinary.

But that does not console it... it has no amour-propre.

Yes, but it serves some purpose.

Ah! Yes.

It purifies—it must purify the world.

It does not worry even about its purification... I do not know how to explain.... It is day and night, without break: "What Thou willest, O Lord, what Thou willest"... Yes, "willest", not "wantest", because it is not merely like this (gesture turned inward), it is also like this (gesture turned outward, spread out). "What Thou willest, what Thou wantest", that's all. Such is its perpetual status.

(Silence)

In any case (this, it is quite clear), the Consciousness which is at work to help it in its labour, has made it per-fect-ly understand

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that to go away is not a solution. Even if before, it had a curiosity to know what it will be, this curiosity has gone; then the desire to stay on, that also has gone away long ago. The possible desire to go away, when that becomes a little... suffocating, that also has gone with the idea that it will change nothing at all. So, there is left only one thing for it, to perfect the acceptance. That's all.

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28 May 1969

There is only one solution, it is the direct contact of the physical with the Supreme. That is the only thing.

There you are.

But the cells of the body... (I do not know if it is particular to this body, I cannot believe that this body is so exceptional), but they are absolutely convinced, and they try, they try, they try all the while, all the while, all the while, with every misery, with every difficulty, with every... there is only one solution—only one thing: "Thou, Thou alone, to Thee alone—Thou alone existest." It is this which is translated in the consciousness of people like the Buddhists and others, as world-illusion, but it is only a half-translation.

But the true solution is this: "Thou alone existest, Thou alone." All the rest... all the rest is misery: misery, suffering... obscurity.

Perhaps—perhaps it is... Evidently in the conception of Sri Aurobindo, the Supramental escapes from all this misery.

There is only That. Otherwise, it is difficult.

Perhaps the half-measures now no longer suffice... I do not know. Perhaps it is time to take one's stand definitely.

As for this body, it has taken its stand. But I felt... one must be very, very enduring—very enduring—so I did not urge others to do it, but all that amounts to saying that perhaps it is time. I do not know.

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31 May 1969

The night before last, I spent more than three hours with Sri Aurobindo and I was showing him all that was about to come down for Auroville. It was quite interesting. There were games, there was art, there was even cooking! But all that was very symbolic. And I was explaining to him as though on a table, in front of a vast landscape. I was explaining to him the principle on which physical exercises and games were going to be organised. It was very clear, very precise, I was giving as though a demonstration, and it was as though I was showing on a very small scale a miniature representation of what was going to be done. I was moving people and things (gesture, as though on a chess-board). But it was very interesting, and he was very much interested: he was laying down the broad laws of organisation (I do not know how to explain). There was art and it was beautiful, it was good. And how to make the houses pleasant and pretty, upon what principle of construction. And then even the kitchen; it was so amusing, each one brought forward his invention.... This went on for three hours—three hours of the night, it is a lot! Very interesting.

Yet conditions upon earth seem to be very far from all that...

(After some hesitation) No... it was right there, it did not seem to be "foreign" to earth. It was a harmony: a conscious harmony behind things; a conscious harmony behind the physical exercises and the games; a conscious harmony behind the decoration, the art; a conscious harmony behind the food...

I mean that all this seems to be at the opposite pole of what is now upon earth.

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Not...

No?

I saw X today and I was telling him that the whole organisation of the arts and sports, even of food and all the rest, was ready in the subtle physical—ready to come down and embody itself—and I told him, "What is needed is just a handful of earth (gesture of cupping the hands), a handful of earth where one could grow the plant.... One must find a handful of earth to let it grow."

(Silence)

I do not know whether it is a correct perception, but it is now months that I have been having the feeling that the earth has never been in such darkness. I feel it is a formidable darkness.

Yes, yes. But the two are there. It is true. The confusion—it is a confusion, a dark confusion, yes. A dark confusion, but it is what Sri Aurobindo was always saying: the confusion becomes all the more intense and dark at the time the light is about to dawn. It is so. It appears as a dark chaos. And the Chinese...

Mother, do you know that in the West the books that have influence (not only influence, but are read and devoured by young people) are the books of Mao-Tse-Tung?

What does the man say?

He says, "Power springs from the barrel of a gun." (Mother remains silent.) That is what is read in the

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West. And the last great bestseller is a book entitled something like The Wretched, which is an apology for violence: power must be seized by violence. It is this which has success in the West; it is this which all the students swallow.¹

Oh! An apology for violence...

A gospel of violence.

That is the vital in its fullness.

Yes.

Oh! That explains all the visions I have had. I believed... I was blaming my body, I was saying: this poor body, it has an unfortunate atavism: always horrible, horrible imaginations—and they were not imaginations, it was conscious of what was happening... oh!...

It is very interesting, what you have just told me, because yesterday (these days, these three days), in front of the horror of the perception of things, this body (which is the very opposite of being sentimental; it has never, never been sentimental), this body wept.... It was not weeping physically, naturally, but it was... And it said, with an inner intensity, "Oh! Why does this world exist?" In that way, so it was... it was horrid, sad, miserable... so it was miserable and... so horrible, oh!... But immediately it got the Answer—it was not an answer in words,

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it was simply... as though a vastness opening into the Light.

Then, there is nothing to say any more.

But how can That, that vastness, become this?... I do not know. The question: "How did That become this?" It is in that way that it came to me: "How could That, that Marvel, have become this, this hideous, monstrous thing?"

But the procedure for changing this back again into That, I do not know.... The procedure is... abdication (how to say it?), self-giving (it is not that). But everything, everything appeared to it so gruesome. There was a whole day very, very, very difficult. And strangely enough, I knew at that moment that it was the exact repetition of the experience that Siddhartha Buddha had had and that it was while he was in this experience that he had said: "There is only one way out: Nirvana." And at the same time I was in the state of true consciousness: his solution and the true one. It was really interesting. How the Buddhist solution is only one step taken—one step. And it is beyond that (not in another way, but beyond that) that the true solution lies. It was a decisive experience.

(Long silence)

But what, after all, is this creation?... Well, separation, and then wickedness, cruelty—the thirst for doing harm, one might say—then suffering, just the joy of inflicting suffering, and then all the illness and decomposition and death—the destruction. All that, forming part of the same thing. What has happened?... And the experience that I had was of the unreality of these things, as though you had entered into an unreal falsehood, and all disappears as you come out of it—it does not exist, it is not. This is what is frightful! What is for us so real, so concrete, so terrifying, all that does not exist. It is... you have entered into Falsehood. Why? How? What?...

But never, never in the whole life-long existence of this body, not for once even, had it felt... such a total, such a deep pain

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as on that day... oh!... something which... (Mother presses her throat). And then at the end of that, the Bliss. And then, pfft! It is wiped away, as though: "not yet, not yet, it is not yet the time." As though all that, all that which is so frightful did not exist.

In the end, probably—probably—it is only the earth (that I do not know). It does not seem to be so, for the moon is very concretely a desolation. In short, there is still a feeling very strong and very exact that it is something limited that is like that, in this Falsehood. And unreal. And we are all in the Falsehood and Unreality; that is why it is like that. And what was interesting was that this escape into Nirvana was not the solution, was only a remedy, a remedy for a time (how to explain? I do not know), partial. A partial cure, and, one might almost say, momentary.

And then that, for a moment it is a paroxysm. Afterwards comes the long way: one must carry on, carry on progressively the work of transformation. And then, the next minute, it is what Sri Aurobindo has called the supramental being. It is as though the passage from the one to the other.

But how will all this change? I do not know.

Yes, the other day I had a perception, it was so concrete, that the earth was as though under a dark robe—it is what you call Falsehood, Illusion. It was something that covered the earth.

Yes, yes.

I felt that, but very concretely, a black robe.

Yes, it is that.

Only it must be pulled off for the whole world...

(After a silence) I cannot say, it is inexpressible; it was something that contained horror, fright, pain—and a compassion, oh! so

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intense.... Never, never had this body felt like that. And besides, it put the body in a condition quite... quite critical for some hours. And afterwards it was as though everything—each and every thing—came with a Smile and a shining Light, as though (translated in a child's image) as though the Lord was saying, "You see, I am everywhere. You see, I am in everything." And it was incredible—incredible.... But there is no communication between the two.

Well, it was at the time when the body was saying: "How is it? Is it going to be necessary to con-ti-nue that? Must one, must one con-ti-nue that? The world, people, the whole creation—to continue that?"... That appeared... I understood all at once: Ah! It is this which they have translated as "eternal hell". It is this. It is someone who has had this perception.

And all the means—which could be called artificial, including Nirvana—all the means of coming out of that are worth nothing. Beginning with the idiot who kills himself to "put an end" to his life (this of course is, of all the idiocies, the most idiotic; it makes one's case still worse), starting from there right up to Nirvana (where one imagines one is able to escape), all that, all that is worth nothing. They are all at different levels, but all are worth nothing. And then, after that, at the time when you really have the feeling of an everlasting hell, all of a sudden... (nothing but a state of consciousness, it is nothing else but that), all of a sudden a state of consciousness... in which all is light, splendour, beauty, happiness, goodness... and everything inexpressible. And it is like that: "There, there you are", and then, pfft! it appears and then, hop! off it goes. And then the Consciousness which sees, which asserts itself and says, "Now, next step, the next step." So, it is that, it is in the presence of all that that the body had... never, never in all its life had it felt such pain, and even now...

Is that, is that the lever?... I do not know. But the salvation is physical—not at all mental, but physical. I mean to say that it is not escape, it is here. This I felt very strongly.

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But the body had a few very difficult hours. And always, for it, it is all the same; it says, "Well and good"; it is quite ready for the dissolution or... There was no question of that. The question was not that; the question was, to know how to receive the Cure.... And how is it?—with our means, it is inexpressible.

But it is not that it is veiled or hidden or whatever: it is there. Why? What is it in the whole that takes away from you the power to live it? I do not know. It is there. It is there. And all the rest, including death and all, becomes truly a falsehood, that is to say, something that does not exist.

Yes, it is a robe that is to be taken off.

If it were only that, it would be nothing.

No, I mean that all this, this Illusion, is like a robe that has to be taken off from the earth.

Yes, it is that. Yes, it is that! But is it only the earth? I do not know. They are going high up there to see!

All that I know, the feeling I have, is that it is concentrated here. Here is the concentration, here is the work. Maybe it is also... the whole solar system, I do not know.

(Silence)

But one cannot get out of it all alone.

Yes!... Sweet Mother, the other day you said something. You said, "It is time to take one's stand." You said, "The body, on its side, has taken its stand," but till now you did not dare push others to do the same, and you said, "Now it is time to take one's stand."

Yes, I believe so.

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But what do you mean by "taking one's stand".

This, this consciousness in which the body is now, that all this is unreal.

The body, if it were asked, would say, "I do not know if I am alive, I do not know if I am dead." Because it is truly like that. During some minutes it has altogether the feeling that it is dead; at other moments it has the feeling that it is alive. It is like that. And it feels that that depends exclusively upon... whether one sees the Truth or not.

(Silence)

Upon what does that depend?...

(Silence)

According to what others say or write or experience, I have seen that what the vast majority of mankind fears most is this perception: that it is a Falsehood and all that leads towards it. I know people (they have written to me) who had terrible frights quite lately because all of a sudden they were seized by force; there was something that began to touch them: the perception of the unreality of life. So that shows the vastness of the way to be trod. It means that all hope of a near solution seems to be a childishness. Unless... things take another turn.

If it is to follow the movement it has been following till now... there have been centuries and centuries and centuries.... Then the superman would still be only a stage and afterwards there would be many other things...

Each time I think of that, I always have the feeling that the only solution is that you should have a glorious body,

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visible to everyone; then all could come and see—come and see the Divine, how it is!

(Mother laughs) That would be very convenient indeed!

It would be such an upsetting of all their notion...

Yes, well certainly! It would be so convenient. Will it be like that?...

That, surely I am in full agreement! And I would be very glad if it were anyone, it does not matter who; I have not the least desire that it should be myself!

Come and see the Divine, how it is!

Yes, how it is! (Mother remains gazing for a long time.)

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4 June 1969

I looked into the matter a great deal after you left me last time, the whole day.... There is some sense that that¹ would be a wonderful solution. When you said it, something became concrete all of a sudden. But there was no personal sense within... the body has none at all, at all, no ambition or desire whatsoever or even aspiration to become that, but there was only a kind of delight in the possibility of "that" being done; if it were done, it matters not who or where or how: only let that be done. And I looked at it with very, very close attention; not for a moment was there the idea: "It must be this" (Mother pinches her skin with her fingers), you understand? It was: "Let there be this incarnation, this manifestation"—not to choose one person or another, one place or another, no, nothing of that kind existed: it was the thing in itself which was like a wonderful solution. And so, that's all.

And then the consciousness began to observe: if there is nothing in this body which "aspired" to be that, it proves that this is not its work. Then there came that extraordinary Smile (I do not know how to express it), it was there, it passed and said... (one could translate it in quite a childlike manner): "It is not your business!" And that's all. And then it was finished, I was not busy with it any more. "Not your business" in the sense: this does not concern you; whether it is this or that or that, it is not your business. That is all.

But what has become its business—in such an intense way that it cannot be expressed—is: "Thou, Thou, Thou, Thou." No word can translate it: the Divine, to use one word. It is everything. For everything—to eat: the Divine; to sleep: the Divine; to suffer: the Divine... Like that (Mother points both hands upward). With a kind of stability, of immobility.

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16 August 1969

Is it an error to make a clean sweep of everything, to make it all empty?

Oh no! Oh no!

I have often asked myself whether I was wrong in my way of proceeding. My spontaneous way of proceeding is to sweep away everything, to make it all completely empty and then to turn towards something up above and to keep absolutely silent and immobile.

Yes, that is the best means, nothing can be better.

That is what I am doing all the time.

If one could only do that!... From all sides it comes like that (gesture as of waves attacking).

(A little later. About the world situation.)

Finally, I am fully convinced that the confusion is there to teach us how to live from day to day, that is to say, not to be preoccupied with what may happen, what will happen, just to occupy oneself day by day with doing what one has to do. All thinkings, pre-plannings, arrangements and all that, are very favourable to much disorder.

To live almost minute by minute, to be like that (gesture upward), attentive only to the thing that is to be done at the moment, and then to let the All-Consciousness decide.... We can never know things even with the widest vision: we can know things only very partially—very partially. So our attention is drawn this way and that, and still other things are there. By giving great importance to things dangerous and harmful, you only add strength to them.

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(Mother goes into contemplation.)

When you are assailed by the vision of such disorder and confusion, you have to do only one thing, to enter into the consciousness where you see only one Being, one Consciousness, one Power—there is only a single Unity—and all this is taking place within this Unity. And all our insignificant visions and knowings and judgments and... all that is mere nothing, it is microscopic in comparison with the Consciousness presiding over All. Therefore, if one had the least sense of the reason why separate individualities existed, one would see that it was only for allowing aspiration, the existence of aspiration, of this movement of self-giving and surrender, trust and faith. And it is this that is the very reason why individuals were built up; and then, for you to become that in all sincerity and intensity... it is all that is needed.

It is all that is needed, it is the only thing, the only thing that stays; all the rest... phantasmagoria.

And it is the only thing valid in every case: when you want to do a thing, when you cannot do a thing, when you move, when the body is no more able to move... in every, every case, that only, only that: to come in conscious contact with the Supreme Consciousness, to be united with it; and... to wait. There!

It is then that you receive the exact indication of what you ought to do at each minute—to do or not to do, to act or to be stone still. That is all. And even to be or not to be. That is the only solution. More and more, more and more, the certitude is there: this is the only solution. All the rest is mere childishness.

And all activities, all possibilities can be made use of in a natural way—it eliminates all arbitrary personal choice. All possibilities are there, all, all, all are there. All perceptions are there and all knowledge—only the personal arbitrariness has been eliminated. And this personal arbitrariness is so childish,

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so childish... a stupidity, a stupidity full of ignorance.

And I feel, I feel like that (Mother feels the air) this agitation, oh! this whirl in the atmosphere!

Poor humanity.

(Long silence)

All that is for teaching the world to turn back to the Lord in its consciousness.... Why? It is for this that there has been a creation?

(Silence)

But I have a practical problem. Each time I form this emptiness, in order precisely to join myself up there... with this something, I feel that I have never had an accurate answer. It is such a massive Power that is there, so solid and then...

Ah! You never had an answer?

It is always the same thing, this Power which is there, impassive.

Well!

Yesterday, for example, during the meditation, it was the same thing—it is always the same thing—this Thing, massive, powerful, which is there but which does not want to say anything.

But don't you have the sense of a... I do not know how to explain, because it is not ease nor... I do not know how to explain, it is something which... no words can tell it, but it leaves you absolutely satisfied.

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One is well.

Ah!

Yes, one is well, that is certain.

Ah! So it's all right, it is that. Everything, everything else is useless.

Yes, but how to get the true, the correct impulse?

But it lies underneath that state.

It is underneath?

It is underneath.

That state... I know, by experience, that it is the state in which one can change the world. One becomes a sort of instrument—that is even unconscious of being an instrument—but which serves (gesture showing the flow of forces through the instrument) to project the forces (gesture in all directions radiating from the instrument as the centre). The brain is altogether, altogether too small, is it not? Even when it is very big, it is too small to be capable of understanding; that is why there is this blank in the mind and the thing happens.

And then you perceive that with regard to the needs of the little life you represent, it automatically comes to pass and you automatically do at every minute just what you have to do without... without calculating, without speculating, without deciding, nothing; it is like this (same gesture of flow through the instrument).

I had the personal experience then, that if something is upset in the body (a pain, a discomfort or something that does not function properly), when you have gone through that state, it

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leaves you—it goes away, disappears. Acute pains even disappeared completely, one does not know how! Ah! gone—like that.

And then, in the contact with people and in the contact with the things of life, a childlike simplicity. That is to say, one does things without... particularly without speculating.

Well, it is like that. I try to be always in the state which you are describing, like that, whatever happens; and always—always, without exception—if there is anything to be done, I am made to do it.

I cannot say anything else. It is so.

I noticed that I am made to act differently at different moments with different people, and even the experience is very different—all that, the same thing, the same way, like that (gesture turned upward, without movement).

Only, one must arrive at a state where there is naturally no more preference nor desire nor repulsion nor attraction, nothing—all that is gone.

And above all, above all, no fear—particularly. That is the most essential of all things.

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1 October 1969

About Mother's talk of 26 August 1953 on Love.

Mother, this power of Love that comes—it comes at times, one feels, one loves truly—but why is one not able to keep it constantly?

One must have the power to keep it!

I too think one must, but one is not able to keep it.

My child... it is here constantly, constantly, whatever the body may be doing —whether seeing people or being busy with itself or sleeping—it is always, always there, conscious, vibrant. I say, "It is possible"; it is a fact. Only, what is needed... what prevents it generally is that the physical consciousness in most men is very obscure; it is made only of the most material needs, desires, reactions. But what is needed is to awaken in the cells the love for the Divine; it is always so, all the time, and it does not change, does not change any more. It is even much more constant than any mental or vital movement; it is like this (Mother closes both her fists), it does not move. The cells are all the while like this, in a state of love for the Divine. What is most remarkable in the physical is that once it has learnt a thing it never forgets it. The cells, once they have learnt it, this self-giving, this offering to the Divine, this need of self-offering, have learnt it for good; it does not flicker any more. It is constant, twenty-four hours out of twenty-four, without stop and day after day, and there is no change. Even if there be something that is not all right (either a pain or something else), the first movement, yes, it is that, it is to offer itself, give itself—spontaneously. The higher consciousness does not intervene. It is spontaneous, it is

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the consciousness contained in the cells. It is the vital and the mental that are unstable in that way (gesture of zigzagging). Particularly, particularly it is the vital that is interested in all sorts of things. Naturally, the two are interdependent.

The ego must be abolished, the rule of the ego must be abolished. But generally people believe that it is not possible to abolish the physical ego; not only is it possible, it has been done. And the body continues, continues to walk about, it is not gone (there was a little difficult moment—but just a little).

Now the cells are wondering how it is at all possible to continue to exist without this movement of adoration. They are like that (gesture of intense aspiration), everywhere, everywhere. It is very interesting.

All these difficulties that one has with the inner development when one is dealing with the vital and the mental, the revivals of old things and all that, now here (in the body) are gone; it is not like that.

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18 October 1969

For a perfect realisation, the whole being must be illumined; but for the beginning of a realisation, it is probably easier for a body that does not possess a very developed mind.... For us, well, who have reached the maximum possibility of the mind, it is through the maximum that we have gone beyond: it is only when the mind had realised its maximum that it abdicated. And this is quite all right for the integral realisation, but generally the body is too much used to obeying the mind, it is not supple enough to be transformed. And that is why my mind has been sent away.... But that is a method which others cannot be encouraged to follow. For out of ten nine would die.

The mind?

If the mind goes away.

You think I would die?

The mind and the vital.

Yes, the vital, I understand, but if you removed my mind...

No, my child, I refuse to do it! (Mother laughs) It must... it must step down.

A great passivity is needed for the Force to be able to pass through quickly and reach the body. I see that each time there is a pressure for acting upon one part of the body or another, the thing begins by an absolute passivity—which is... the "perfection of inertia". You understand? It is the perfection of that which inertia represents as imperfect... something that has no activity

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of its own. It is just the most difficult thing for those who have a very well—developed mind, very difficult. Because the whole body has worked all its life for being just in this state of receptivity to the mind, which makes it obedient, passive, etc., and it is that which must be abolished.

How to explain?... The development through mind means a constant and general awakening of the whole being, even the most material, an awakening as a result of which there is also something quite opposite to sleep. And to receive the Supreme Force, one must have, on the contrary, the equivalent of immobility—the immobility of sleep, but absolutely conscious, absolutely conscious. The body feels the difference. It feels the difference to such an extent that... for example, I stretch myself in the evening and I remain like that, for hours together I remain so; and if after a time I fall into ordinary sleep, my body wakes up in a terrible anguish! And then it begins again to put itself back into that state. This anguish I feel from time to time—and it goes away as soon as it gets back into the true attitude, which is a state of immobility, but absolutely conscious. "Immobility", I do not know how to say it.... But it is almost the opposite of the inertia in immobility.

And it is that which is making me understand now the reason why creation began with inertia. And so, that state had to be rediscovered (Mother describes a big curve) after having gone through all the states of consciousness. And it is that which has given us... (Mother laughs) for us, it is a fine mess! But when it is done purposely, it is no more a mess.

For me the difficulty that I meet very often is a need also of activity in aspiration.

Yes, yes.

I have the feeling that I must not stop actively aspiring.

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Often I could very well leave all that aside, without stirring, but...

Yes, but then the aspiration comes.

I feel the need of the activity of aspiration.

Yes, it is to counteract inertia. Because we still have inertia as our heritage.

But then, in such a case what is to be done? Should one let everything be spread out or... should one persist in this active aspiration that is truly intense?

It is difficult to say, because I am convinced that each one has his own way, but for this body the way is to have this active aspiration.

To have the active aspiration? Yes, but then it is no longer this immobility.

It has got the thing, it has understood the means, how to do it.

The two together, the union of the two?

Yes, they are together. That is what it succeeded in getting: a complete immobility and an intense aspiration. It is only when immobility is there without the aspiration that it falls into a frightful anguish which wakes it up immediately. It is that, an intense aspiration. And it is absolutely immobile, immobile within, as though all the cells became immobile.... It must be that. What we call intense aspiration must be the supramental vibration. It must be the divine vibration, the true divine vibration. That I have said to myself often.

But if, even for a single minute, the body falls into the state of inertia—immobility without aspiration—it is awakened by an

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anguish as though it were going to die! You understand? It is to that degree. For it, immobility means... yes, it has the feeling that the highest vibration, the vibration of the true Consciousness, is so intense that it is... it is equivalent to the inertia of immobility—an intensity which is not perceptible to us. So great is this intensity that it is, for us, equivalent to inertia.

It is this which is getting established.

It is this which has made me understand (because now the body understands), has made it understand the process of creation.... One might almost say that it began by a state of perfection, but unconscious, and that it must pass through this state of unconscious perfection to a state of conscious perfection, and between the two is the imperfection. Words are foolish, but you understand.

(Silence)

You know, the feeling is that one is on the threshold of understanding. And it is not at all a mental understanding, not at all, not at all. (One has had that, but it is nothing, nothing, it is zero.) It is an understanding that one lives. And that the mind cannot have, cannot. And the feeling is that only the body—receptive, open, in any case partially transformed—is capable of having the understanding. Understanding the creation, what we call creation: why and how, the two things. It is not at all a thing thought out, it is not a thing felt: it is a thing lived and that is the only way of knowing.... It is a consciousness.

But you know, when this understanding comes—it comes and then it becomes like this (gesture as of a luminous inflation), it comes like this and then it dwindles, and comes again and again dwindles; but when it does come, it is so obvious, so simple that one asks oneself why one was not able to know it before!

Still more time is needed.... How long, I do not know. But the notion of time is also quite arbitrary.

We want always to translate all our experiences into the old

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state of consciousness and that is the misery! We think it is necessary, it is indispensable—and it is stupefying. It delays awfully.

(Silence)

Everything, everything, everything that men have said, everything they have written, everything they have taught is only a way of saying. It is only to try to make oneself understood, but that is impossible. And when one thinks (Mother laughs) how much one has fought for things that are so relative!...

(Long silence)

Looking at the days as they pass and at things that happen, the experience of the body appears like this.... In some way, at some moments it is in the consciousness of immortality, and then, through influence (and still, from time to time, through old habit) it falls back into the consciousness of mortality, and that is truly... for it now to fall back into the consciousness of mortality is an awful anguish; and it is only when it comes out of it, when it returns to the true consciousness, that the thing vanishes. And I understand why there have been people, there have been Yogis who spoke of the unreality of the world; because, to the consciousness of immortality, the consciousness of mortality is an unreal absurdity. It is like this (Mother passes the fingers of one hand into the fingers of the other, indicating a coming and going of the two consciousnesses). So it is like this at one moment and like that at another. And the other state, the state of immortality, is immutably peaceful, tranquil, with... like staggeringly rapid waves, so rapid that they seem immobile. It is like that—nothing moves (apparently) in a tremendous Movement. And then as soon as the other state returns, all the ordinary notions also return, that is to say... in fact now, in the state where it is, that gives it the pain and the suffering of a falsehood. But it is still like that (same gesture of coming and

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going).... To come out of it, the only, the only effective way is just to give up, surrender. It is not expressed by words, nor by ideas, nor by anything; it is a state of vibration in which nothing but the Divine Vibration has any value. Then, then only, things are put back in order.

But all that, as soon as one speaks of it...

Note, however, that this is constant: it comes at night, it comes in the morning: and then at other times when... (gesture vast, united, with a smile) no more problems, no more difficulty, nothing.

(Silence)

There is a background (it is that particularly), a background of unconscious negation which is behind everything, everything, everything, still; it is still there everywhere—you eat, you breathe, you receive this negation.... It is still a colossal work to transform all that. But when one is, as one might say, on "the other side" (these are not "sides"), but in the other state, it appears so natural, so simple, that you ask yourself why it is not like that, why it appears so difficult; and then, as soon as you are on the other side, it is... (Mother holds her head within her hands). The mixture is still there, without doubt.

Indeed, the ordinary state, the old state is consciously (that is to say, it is a conscious perception) that of death and suffering. And then in the other state, death and suffering appear as things absolutely... unreal. There!

Here, take it (Mother gives a flower of transformation).

No impatience.

A trustful patience.

In truth, everything is for each one as good as it can be. All the time it is the old movements that get impatient.... That is to say, when one sees the all, one finds that certainly impatience has been created to counteract inertia—but now it is done with, that time has gone.

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19 November 1969

This morning about eight o'clock, I could have said many things.... Because there came a day when many problems had cropped up as a consequence of something that had happened, then this morning (towards the end of the night), I had the experience that was the explanation. And for two hours I lived in an absolutely clear perception (not a thought: a clear perception) of the why and how of creation. It was so luminous, so clear; it was irrefutable. It lasted at least for four or five hours and then it petered out; gradually the experience diminished in intensity and clarity.... I had just seen many people, then... it is difficult to explain now. But all had become so limpid; all the contrary theories, everything was at the bottom (Mother looks from above), and all the explanations, all that Sri Aurobindo had said and also some things that Thَeon had said were seen as a consequence of the experience: each thing in its place and absolutely clear. At that time I could have said it, but now it will be a little difficult.

Is it not so? In spite of what one has read and all the theories and explanations, something was left (how to say it?) difficult to "explain" (it is not "explaining": that is quite trivial). For example, suffering and the will to inflict suffering, that side of the Manifestation. There has been, of course, as though a prevision of the original identity of hatred and love, because the thing was going to the extremes, but as for all the rest it was difficult. Today it is so luminously simple, yes, it is that, so obvious!... (Mother looks at a note which she had written.) Words are nothing. And then I had scribbled with a pencil that wrote badly.... I don't know if you can see the words. To me they represented something very exact: now they are nothing but words. (The disciple reads):

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Stability and change
Inertia and transformation...

Yes, in the Lord they were evidently identical principles. And it was particularly that, the simplicity of this identity. And now they are nothing but words.

Stability and change
Inertia and transformation
Eternity and progress
———————————————————————————
Unity = ... (The disciple is not able to make out the words.)

It was not I who wrote it, that is to say, not the ordinary consciousness, and the pencil... I do not know any more what I have put down. (Mother tries to read the words, but in vain.) It was the vision of the creation—the vision, the understanding, the how, the why, the whither, everything was there, the whole of it together, and clear, clear, clear.... I tell you, I was in the midst of a golden glory —luminous, dazzling.

Well, the earth was there as the centre representing the creation, and then there was the identity of the inertia of the stone, of what is most inert, and then... (Mother tries once more to read the words.)

I do not know if it will come.

(Mother goes into a long concentration.)

One might say like that... for the convenience of expression, I would say: the "Supreme" and the "creation". In the Supreme, it is a unity that contains all the possibilities perfectly unified, without any differentiation; in creation, it is, so to say, the projection of all that makes up this unity by dividing the opposites, that is to say, by separating them (it is that which has been seized

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by someone who said that creation is separation): for example, night and day, black and white, good and evil, etc., etc.—all that, but it is our explanation. The whole of it, all together is a perfect unity, immutable and... indissoluble. Creation means separation of all that constitutes this unity—one might call it the division of consciousness. The division of consciousness starts from the unity conscious of its unity, in order to arrive at the unity conscious of its multiplicity in the unity. And then it is this path which, because of its fragments, is translated for us by space and time. For us, such as we are, it is possible for each point of this consciousness to be conscious of itself and conscious of the original Unity. And that is the work which is being done; that is to say, each infinitesimal element of this consciousness, while keeping this state of consciousness, is in the process of rediscovering the state of the total original consciousness—and the result is the original Consciousness conscious of its unity and conscious of the whole play, conscious of the innumerable elements of this Unity. This for us is translated into the sense of time: moving from the Inconscient up to this state of Consciousness. And the Inconscient is the projection of the first Unity (if one can say it; all these words are altogether senseless), of the essential unity which is only conscious of its unity—yes, that is the Inconscient. And this Inconscient becomes more and more conscious in beings who are conscious of their infinitesimal existence and at the same time, through what we call progress or evolution or transformation, become conscious of the original Unity. And that, as it was seen, explains everything.

Words are nothing.

Everything, everything from the most material to the most ethereal, everything finds its place there—clear, clear, clear, a vision.

And evil, what we call evil, has its indispensable place in the whole. It will not be felt as evil the moment one becomes conscious of That—necessarily. Evil is this infinitesimal element

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looking at its infinitesimal consciousness; but as consciousness is essentially one, it resumes, regains the Consciousness of the Unity—the two together. It is that, yes, it is that which has to be realised. It is this wonderful thing, of this I had the vision at that moment.... And for the beginnings (are they the beginnings?), what is called in English the outskirts, what is farthest from the central realisation, that becomes the multiplicity of things, and the multiplicity also of sensations, of feelings, of all... the multiplicity of consciousness. It is this act of separation that has created, that is creating the world constantly and that is creating everything at the same time: suffering, happiness, everything, everything that is created through this... what might be called "diffusion"; but it is absurd, it is not a diffusion—we ourselves live in the sense of space, so we speak of diffusion and concentration, but it is nothing of the sort.

And I understood why Théon used to say that we were living at the time of "Equilibrium"; that is to say, it is through the equilibrium of all these innumerable points of consciousness and of all these opposites that the central Consciousness is rediscovered. And all that is said is stupid—at the same time as I say this, I see to what degree it is stupid. But one cannot do otherwise. It is something... something so concrete, so true, yes, so ab-so-lu-te-ly... that.

As long as I was living that, it was... But perhaps I could not have said it at that time. That (Mother points to the note), I was obliged to take up some paper and jot it down, and in such a way that I do not know any more what I jotted down.... The first thing written was this:

Stability and change

It was the idea of the original Stability (one could say), which is translated in the Manifestation by inertia. And the growth is translated by change. Then came:

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Inertia and transformation

But it is gone, the sense is gone—the words had a sense.

Eternity and progress

They were the opposites (these three things).

Then there was a gap (Mother draws a line under the triple opposition), and once again a Pressure, and then I wrote this:

Unity = ... (three illegible words follow)

And that was a much more true expression of the experience, but it is illegible—I think it was illegible deliberately. One must have the experience to be able to read it.

(The disciple tries to read the words:) It seems to me that there is a word "rest"?

Ah! It must be that. Rest and...

(Mother goes into concentration.)

Is it not "power"?

Ah! yes, "Power and rest combined".

Yes, that is it.

It was not I who chose the words, so they must have a special force—when I say "I", I mean the consciousness that is there (gesture above the head); it is not that consciousness; it was something that was pressing down that compelled me to write. (Mother recopies her note:)

Stability and change
Inertia and transformation

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Eternity and progress
———————————————————————————
Unity = power and rest combined.

The idea is that the two combined restored that state of consciousness which wanted to express itself.

It was on the universal scale—not on the individual scale.

I put a line between the two to mean that they had not come together.

But already, often, when you speak of this supramental experience, you say that it is a staggering movement and at the same time it is as though completely immobile. You have said it often.

But you know, most often I do not remember what I have once said.

You say: the vibration is so rapid that it is imperceptible, it is as though coagulated and immobile.

Yes. But this was really a Glory in which I lived for hours together this morning.

And then all, all, all notions, all of them, even the most intellectual, all became as... as though childishness. It was so obvious that one had the feeling: there is no need to speak of it!

All human reactions, even the highest, the purest, the noblest, appeared so childish!... There is a sentence written by Sri Aurobindo somewhere that was coming all the while to me. One day, I do not remember where, he had written something, a rather long sentence in which there was this: "And when I feel jealous, I know that the old man is still there." It is now perhaps more than thirty years since I read it—yes, almost thirty years—and I remember, when I read "jealous", I said to myself: How can Sri Aurobindo be jealous ? And so after thirty

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years I have understood what he meant by being "jealous"—it is not at all what men call "jealous", it was altogether another state of consciousness. I saw it clearly. And this morning it came back to me: "And when I feel jealous, I know that the old man is still there." To be "jealous" for him did not mean what we call "jealous"... It is this infinitesimal particle that we call the individual, this particle of infinitesimal consciousness which places itself at the centre, which is the centre of the perception, and which consequently perceives things coming like that (gesture towards oneself) or going like that (gesture outward) and all that does not come to it gives it a kind of perception that Sri Aurobindo called "jealous": the perception that things are going towards diffusion, instead of coming in towards centralisation; it was that which he called "jealous". So he said: When I feel jealous (this was what he meant to say), I know that the old man is still there; that is to say, this infinitesimal particle of consciousness can still be at the centre of itself; it is the centre of action, the centre of perception, the centre of sensation....

(Silence)

Yes, I could notice—it is the time when I do all my physical work—I could notice that the whole work could be done without any alteration in the consciousness. It was not that which altered my consciousness; what veiled my consciousness was seeing people: it is when I began to be here and to do what I have been doing every day: projecting the divine Consciousness upon people. But it came back... (how can one say it?) on the borders; that is to say, instead of being within, I began to perceive it, when you asked me. But that feeling is no longer there—there was nothing but that any more! That alone was there, and everything, everything has changed—appearance, meaning, etc.

That must be the supramental consciousness: I believe that this is the supramental consciousness.

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But one could conceive very well that for a consciousness wide and quick enough, if I may say so, capable of seeing not merely a bit of the path, but the whole path at the same time...

Yes, yes.

The whole would be a moving perfection.

Yes.

Evil is simply holding one's vision on one small angle; then one says, "It is evil", but if one sees the entire path... In a total consciousness, obviously there is no evil.

There are no contraries. No contraries—not even contradictions; I say: no contraries. It is that Unity, it is living in that Unity. And that cannot be translated by thoughts or words. I am telling you, it is... a vastness without limits and a light... a light without movement, and at the same time an ease... an ease not recognised as such. Now I am convinced that it is that, the supramental consciousness.

And necessarily, necessarily that must change the appearances gradually.

(Long silence)

There are no words that can explain the magnificence of the Grace, how the whole is combined so that all may go as quickly as possible. And individuals are miserable to the extent to which they are not conscious of it and take a false position in regard to what is happening to them.

But what is difficult to think is that at each moment it must be... it is the perfection.

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Yes, that is it.

At each instant, it is the perfection.

At each instant. There is no other thing... When I was there, there was no other thing. And yet, as I have told you, it was the time when I was physically extremely busy—all the work was being done, without disturbing anything; on the contrary, I believe I was doing things much better than usual... I do not know how to explain. It was not, as it were, a thing "added": it was quite natural.

Life as it is can be lived in that consciousness—but it is then lived quite well!... Nothing needs to be changed, what is to be changed changes itself quite naturally.

I am going to give you an example. For a few days, I had some difficulty with... I will not name him; pressure had to be put on him to correct some of his movements. Today he was conscious of it in quite a different way from the usual, and in the end he said that he was on the way to change (that is true), and all that not only without a word, but without any movement of the consciousness for putting pressure. There you are. That is a proof.... All is done automatically, as an imposition of the Truth without any necessity of intervention: simply to remain in the true consciousness, that is all, that is sufficient.

But then, in spite of everything, the body kept just a little consciousness of its needs all the while (although it was not busy with itself; I was always saying: It is not busy with itself, it is not interested). But that is what Sri Aurobindo used to say: I feel I am still the old man. I understood that this morning, for it was no longer there. Well, this sort of a very quiet perception of what is still not all right—a pain here, a difficulty there—very calm, very indifferent, but it is perceived (without its taking any importance), and even that gone, wholly swept away!... I hope it won't come back. It is really... this, I understand, it is a transformation. One is conscious in a golden vastness—

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my child, it is wonderful—luminous, golden, peaceful, eternal, all-powerful.

And how it is coming.... No word is there to express it indeed, this wonder regarding the Grace.... The Grace, the Grace is a thing that surpasses all comprehension, with its clear-seeing kindliness.... Naturally the body had the experience. Something had happened that I will not tell you and it had the true reaction; it had not the old reaction, it had the true reaction—it smiled, with the Smile of the supreme Lord—it smiled. That was there for a whole day and a half. And it was this difficulty which enabled the body to make the last progress, enabled it to live in this Consciousness: if all had been harmonious, things could have lasted still for years—it is wonderful, wonderful!

And how stupid men are! When the Grace has come to them, they push it away, saying, "Oh! What horror!"... That I have known for a long time, but my experience is... dazzling.

Yes, each thing is perfectly, wonderfully what it ought to be at every moment.

Quite so.

But it is our vision that is not attuned.

Yes, it is our separated consciousness.

The whole has been brought with lightning rapidity towards the consciousness that will be the Consciousness of the point and of the all, at the same time.

(Long silence)

(Mother finishes recopying her note.) There, now I am writing today's date.

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It is the 19th.

19 November 1969, supramental consciousness.

(Silence)

The first descent of the supramental force was a 29, and this is a 19... The 9 is something to note there.... So many things there are which we do not know!

(Silence)

I have already had the experience, partially, that when one is in this state of inner harmony and no part of the attention is turned towards the body, the body works perfectly well. It is this... "self-concentration" which upsets everything. And this I have observed many times, many times.... In reality one does make oneself ill. It is the narrowness of consciousness, the division. If you let it work, there is... everywhere there is a Consciousness and a Grace that do everything so that all may go well, and it is because of this imbecility that all goes wrong—it is strange! The ego-centric imbecility, it is that which Sri Aurobindo calls "the old man".

It is truly interesting.

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10 December 1969

Progress is going on at a giant's pace—that shakes the house a little, but it goes on at a giant's pace. And for some, like X for example, it is very conscious. She had an accident in the knee long ago and this leg is a little weaker than the other one—there was a possibility of an upsetting. She noticed that so long as she had the correct attitude she felt nothing, there was nothing, it seemed to have gone altogether. As soon as she fell back into the ordinary consciousness, the illness returned.... And she has had innumerable experiences. I found it very interesting. Others also.

And it is truly interesting. It is truly interesting because it has a clarity altogether limpid and obvious, because it is solely a state of consciousness. When one has the consciousness (that is to say, as the consciousness grows more and more true—not something that is arrested, but a consciousness that is ascending), when you are within that, everything is all right; as soon as you fall back into the old consciousness, either unprogressive or progressing slowly and imperceptibly, then the disorder returns. And that is as though a lesson given in an altogether clear and obvious way.

It is truly interesting.

And the body goes on learning. It learns very quickly.

(Silence)

Surely a big stride will have been taken when man will naturally turn to perfect himself instead of waiting to find perfection in others.... This reversal is the very basis of all true progress. The first human instinct: "It is the fault of circumstances, the fault of people, the fault... this one is like this, that one is like that, the other one..." And this goes on indefinitely. The first step, the very first step is to say: "If I were as I ought to be or if this body

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were as it ought to be, all would be perfectly all right for it." If in order to progress, you were to wait for others to progress, you would have to wait indefinitely. That is the very first thing that is to be circulated everywhere. Never put the blame on others or on circumstances, because whatever the circumstances, even those that appear the worst, if you keep the true attitude and have the true consciousness, they will have no importance at all for your inner progress, no importance—I say this and I include even death.

Indeed, that seems to be the first lesson to learn.

(Silence)

Sri Aurobindo had written (I translate freely) that the notion of sin has been introduced to hasten progress, and immediately (Mother laughs) man saw sin in all others—he never saw it in himself! Sri Aurobindo's sentence is charming, but I do not remember it.¹

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13 December 1969

I am receiving continuously, almost daily, the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo, which I had forgotten completely. There were very interesting things.... Some of them give me the feeling that they are a kind of transcription (one might say "intellectual", but it is not that, it is a mentalised higher mind, that is to say, it is accessible to thought) of the experience of the supramental consciousness that I had, in which this difference of good and evil and all that, appears as childishness, and Sri Aurobindo expresses it in the aphorisms in a way accessible to the intellect. Only... those who understand do not understand well! because they understand in the old way.

Do you remember these aphorisms?... There is one where he says: "If I cannot be Rama, then I would be Ravana..." and he explains why. It is in that series.¹

(Silence)

There is a practical problem there: it is clear there are some movements which one would like to eliminate, because one finds that it is a fault, but one does not know how to do it. Is it from above? You put the light upon such a movement each time it comes up, and then...

It depends upon the kind of movement, my child, and in which part of the being and what type of movement.

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I am sure that each difficulty is a special problem. You can't make a general rule.

For example, the other day you said that birth is a "purge"... (Mother laughs). You remember: people who have suppressed everything, find the same thing reappearing in the children.²

Yes, yes!

And you said that this gave a key to what should not be done.

Yes.

Now I would like to know what is the key to cure without suppression? Precisely because the Light is usually thrown, and then the wrong movement is driven underground.

Yes, that is a general rule. The opposite is to be done: instead of driving it underground, it is to be offered. It is to place the thing, the movement itself, to project it into the light.... Generally it wriggles and refuses! But (Mother laughs) that is the only way. That is why this Consciousness is so precious.... Well, what

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brings about the suppression is the idea of good and bad, a kind of contempt or shame for what is considered bad, and you do like this (gesture of repulsion), you do not want to see it, you do not want it to be there. It must... The first thing—the very first thing to realise is that it is the weakness of our consciousness that makes this division and that there is a Consciousness (now I am sure of it) in which that does not exist, in which what we call "evil" is as much necessary as what we call "good", and that if we can project our sensation—or our activity or our perception—into that Light, that will bring the cure.³ Instead of suppressing or rejecting it as something to be destroyed (it cannot be destroyed!), it has to be projected into the Light. And because of this I have had for several days a very interesting experience: instead of seeking to throw away far from oneself certain things (which one does not accept, and which produce an imbalance in the being), instead of doing that, to accept them, take them as part of oneself and... (Mother opens her hands) offer them up. They do not want to be offered, but there is a way of compelling them: the resistance is diminished in the proportion as we can diminish in us our sense of disapprobation; if we can replace this sense of disapprobation by a higher understanding, then we succeed. It is much more easy.

I believe it is that. All, all the movements that drag you down must be put in contact with the higher understanding.

Only, it is beyond the mind obviously. Because, as I said presently that the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo were expressions understandable to the intellect—but all the same that

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diminishes: it diminishes, it has no longer the dazzle of understanding without words—it is there, there alone that things can be arranged.

Even when it is explained to oneself, it diminishes. One must say nothing. It is like (Mother laughs) putting on a layer of paint that only distorts.

Mother suddenly takes up a notebook nearby and writes her answer to a letter that she had read at the beginning of the interview.

It came that way. It is in that way it happens: all of a sudden, and then it remains and does not want to go away until I write it down. It is amusing.

It is amusing, because it does not correspond (I cannot even say what I am thinking of, because to say the truth, I think no more) to my experience, but to what the other has need of. The answer is dictated for the other. The words, the expressions, the turn of phrase, the presentation differ completely according to the person to whom it is written. And that consciousness which is there (gesture upward) has nothing to do with it. It receives. It receives and then it comes down and it does like this (gesture of hammering) until I write it down! It does not want to go away until it is written. It is very amusing.... In that way one can work hard without tiring oneself! (Mother laughs.)

I would like very much to have just a seed.

Take it! (Mother, laughing, gives her hands.)

Because, even in mental silence—I am always in the habit of writing in mental silence—but in spite of everything, even in this silence I am on guard lest the old formations or reactions come in and express themselves in the silence.

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Ah, yes.

I am afraid of that.

Yes, old things come up.

But do you not feel they are coming from above?

I feel the Force is there and it comes down.

Yes, and then?

Well, yes, but afterwards, when I write certain things, I say to myself...

Ah! That happens often.

I say to myself: "Perhaps I should not have said that."

But then it is the mind that interferes.

I do not know.

That happens to me also. Sometimes I write and then send it off, and afterwards I remember what I had written, and I tell myself: "The devil! I should not have said that!"... And I find out that it was all right—that it is the reaction which is a mental reaction.

That has happened to me many a time. For example the other day, I had to write to Z. Very often he writes unacceptable things, but I say nothing; and the other day I wrote to him a rather strong letter asking him: "What does that mean?" And afterwards I said to myself, "No, I must not move," and I did not send the letter.... What should be done, I do not know?

That, my child...

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(Silence)

It is difficult.

Yes.... But when you turn upward or you aspire or you are like this, open to the supreme Consciousness, it is concrete?

Ah, yes, it is solid.

It is concrete? One must... You understand, there is only one way, the ego must go, that is all. It is that. Only when, there, instead of "I" there is nothing any more: you know, it is altogether flat like this (gesture signifying something immense, smooth, without a wrinkle), having a kind of... it is not even expressed by words, but a very stable sensation of: "What Thou willest, as Thou willest" (the words become too small). Indeed, to have a concrete sensation that this (the body), this does not exist, it is only used—there is only That. It is That which does like this (gesture of pressure). This feeling of That, this conscious Vastness which (Mother stretches her arms).... In the end you do see it ("seeing", it is not a vision with images but it is a vision... I do not know with what! but it is very concrete, much more concrete than the images), a vision of this vast Force, this vast Vibration which presses, presses, presses... and then the world which wriggles under it and the thing which opens, and when it opens, that enters and spreads.

This is truly interesting.

This is the only solution. There is no other. All the rest, it is aspirations, conceptions, expectations... it is still the superman, it is not the supramental. It is a higher humanity which tries to draw the whole of its humanity upward, but that... that is of no use, of no use.

The picture is very clear, of this whole humanity which clings in order to climb, which seeks to hold like that, but which does

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not give itself—it wants to take! And that, that will not do. It must do away with itself. Then the Thing will be able to come and take its place.

The whole secret is there.

For example, all this side of humanity that wants to take things by force and pulls them up there (gesture indicating as high as the forehead)... it is interesting: it is interesting, but it is not that! It is not that; all these possibilities must be exhausted so that something in humanity is able to understand... that there is only that (Mother opens her hands in a gesture of self-effacement), and then to let oneself lie prostrate till one disappears.

Indeed, that is the most difficult thing: to learn to disappear.

(Silence)

Well, my child (Mother laughs), we shall get there!

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27 December 1969

There is almost a feeling of being immersed in Matter.... In spite of this kind of apparent absorption in problems and practical work, is any yoga or any thing being done even when we are externally so much absorbed that we have no perception that we are doing anything?

Oh! But now the whole being (the body has understood it quite well), the whole being knows that everything comes to make you go forward as quickly as possible, everything: obstacles, contradictions, lack of understanding, useless preoccupations, everything, everything, everything to make you go forward; it is for touching one point, then another, then yet another, and make you advance as fast as possible. If you are not concerned with this Matter, how can it change?

And it is very clear, it is quite evident that all objections, all contradictions come merely from a superficial mind which sees only the appearance of things. It is precisely to put your consciousness on guard against that, so that it might not be duped by such things and might see clearly that it is altogether external, superficial, and that behind this, all that is being done is moving as fast as possible towards... transformation.

(Long silence)

Intelligence at its higher level understands very easily that it knows nothing and it falls quite easily into the attitude required for progress, but even they who have this intelligence, when it is a question of material things, have the instinctive feeling that all that is known, understood and founded on established experiences; and there you become vulnerable. And that is exactly what

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the body is being made to learn, the uselessness of the present way of seeing and understanding things, based on the good, the bad, the fair, the foul, the luminous, the obscure... all these contradictories; and the whole judgment, the whole conception of life is based upon that (the material life), and it is to teach you the inanity of this perception. And I see it. The work has become very acute, very persistent, as though you were called upon to go quickly.

Even the practical part, which thought that it had learnt how to live and know what is to be done and how it is to be done, must also understand that it was not the true knowledge nor the true way of using external things.

(Silence)

There are even amusing things.... This Consciousness which is at work, it is as though "teasing" the body all the time; all the time it says to it: "You see, you have this sensation; well, what is its basis? You think you know it; do you really know what is there behind it?" and for all the small things of life, things of every minute. And then the body is like that (Mother opens big astonished eyes) and tells itself: "It is true, I know nothing." But its answer is always the same, it says: "I do not claim that I know, let the Lord do whatever He wills", it is like that. And then, there is this thing (if that could be caught permanently, it would be good): non-intervention in the work of the Lord (to say the thing in the simplest way).

(Silence)

It is demonstrated by the fact, by the experience of every minute that when a thing is done with this kind of feeling of acquired wisdom or of acquired understanding, of an experience lived through, etc., to what degree it is... one may say "false" (misleading, in any case) and that there is some other thing behind

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which makes use of that (as it does of everything) but is not tied to this knowledge nor dependent upon it nor upon what we call the experience of life nor upon anything of that sort. It has a much more direct, much more profound, much more "distant" vision; that is to say, it sees much farther, much wider and much in advance, something no external experience can give.... And it is a modest growth, without any outburst, not making a show of anything: it is a very little thing of every minute—every minute, every second, every thing. As though all the while there was something that was showing you the ordinary way of living, of seeing and doing, and then... the true way. Both, like that. For all things.

It is so to such a degree that the attitude towards certain vibrations brings you complete ease or it can make you completely sick! And it is the same vibration. Things like that, things bewildering. And every minute, it is like that—every minute, for everything.

Well, the consciousness here takes a certain attitude and then it is all delight and harmony; and the thing remains the same, but then (gesture of just a tilt to the left), a slight change in the attitude of the consciousness, and the thing becomes almost unbearable! Experiences of this kind, all the time, all the time... just to show that there is only one thing that has importance, the attitude of the consciousness: the old attitude of the individual being (gesture of contraction) or that (gesture of expansion). It must be (to put it into words that we understand) the presence of the ego and the abolition of the ego. It is that.

And then, as I have said, for all the actions of life, even the most ordinary, it is demonstrated that if the presence of the ego is suffered (surely to make you understand what it is), it can really lead to an imbalance of health, and that the only remedy is the disappearance of the ego—and at the same time the disappearance of all illness. For things that we consider quite unimportant, quite... And it is for everything, for everything, all the while, all the while, night and day.

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And then it is complicated by all the misunderstandings and discontentments that come out (Mother makes a gesture as though a cart-load is being poured upon her), as though they were unfastened and they came out, and all that falls at the same time in order... in order that the experience might be total and in all domains.

It is as though a practical demonstration was being given at every minute of the presence of death and of the presence of immortality, like this (Mother slightly tilts her hand to the right and to the left), in the smallest things—in all things, the smallest and the biggest, and constantly; and constantly, you see... whether you are here or you are there (same gesture of tilting to one side or the other). At every second, as if you were called upon to choose between death and immortality.

And for that, I see the body must go through a serious and very thorough preparation in order to be able to bear the impact of the experience without... without any vibration of anxiety or recoil or... it must be able to maintain its peace and its constant smile.

(Long silence)

There are things... extraordinary things.

As though in everything we were required to live the presence of the opposites to find... to find what is there when the opposites join together—instead of running away when they join. That produces a result. And that in the practical life.

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31 January 1970

I don't know very well what attitude to take. I may however simply put into a question the problem that is troubling me: is everything directed?

You know, my child, more and more and in an absolute way, I see—I see—yes, I see, I feel: everything has been decided.

Everything decided.

And everything has its reason for existence, which eludes us because our vision is not wide enough.

And you understand, life, existence, indeed the world itself would have no sense if it were otherwise.

Yes.

It is... it is a kind of absolute conviction. And I see it. Yes, it is a thing I see.

How to say it?... I am now paying for this conviction! The body has difficult moments, really difficult moments in its transference of authority (what I call "transference") and so, seen with the ordinary vision, that would be senseless because difficulties seem to increase with what might be called "conversion"; but... to the true vision, when one is within the true vision, it is the remnant of Falsehood which is seen as the cause of all ailing (that which is still a mixed thing). And it is so even quite materially (morally this has been conquered long ago: desires disappearing, all troubles disappear; they are replaced by a smile constant and wholly sincere—not made-to-order or with an effort, but natural and spontaneous), I mean to say physically, materially: illness and trouble and all that. It is the same thing.

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It is the same thing, only... you are less ready, Matter is slower to transform itself, so there is more resistance.

And the only solution, at every moment and in all cases, is (gesture of self-giving): "What Thou willest", that is to say, the abolition of preference and desire. Even the preference for not suffering.

But what is difficult to understand is whether this Consciousness... one understands easily that it governs all in the vast and in the eternal, but does it govern all in all the small details, it is that...

In the microscopic.

In the microscopic...

And it is exactly what I was seeing, I understand why. The problem was there this morning: the individual consciousness, even when it is very wide, is not able to realise, that is to say, understand concretely, that it is possible to become conscious of all at the same time. For it is not of that kind. It has just the difficulty of understanding that the Consciousness is conscious of all at the same time, all together, in its totality and in the smallest detail. That...

Yes, it is difficult... but it is reassuring.

Ah! That makes you very quiet, very quiet.... I told you the other day that the body has had this experience of dying without dying, and the experience enabled the body to say: "Good, it is well and good," to accept without... (how to say it?) without effort— to adhere. And then, it is gone. All the old illusion of disappearance with the dissolution of the body—that is not there since long, and now the body itself is completely convinced that even if it were thus scattered, that would enlarge its

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field of consciousness... I do not know how to explain, for the sense of the personal and the necessity of the personal for the consciousness has disappeared.

And I see very well that the body is quite aware that it is only because of its resistance—its resistance to Truth—that it can suffer. Wherever there is a complete adhesion, suffering disappears immediately.

(Silence)

But it is the same thing for countries and states: it is the same change-over of authority. Instead of personal authorities, there is going to be a divine authority, and this very change of authority is creating the unspeakable chaos in which men live now—because of the resistance.

(Long silence)

The more a part of the being (whatever it is) approaches the time for transition, that is to say, the more it is ready for this transition, the more it grows in sensitivity. And so, at the time when one is able to go beyond the stage of problems and see with the universal vision, the problems acquire for the personal sensitivity a very sharp acuteness. This I had noticed before; now it is reproduced in the case of the body. It gains a sensitivity that is... well, terrifying. People who do not know why it is so are truly frightened.... The possibility of illness, of... And it is the same thing for problems. Only, for those who know and have understood, it is the occasion for making the final progress, to do this (Mother opens her hands upward).

In essence, that which still has the illusion of being something separate must dissolve. That must tell itself: "It does not concern me, I do not exist." This is the best attitude that one can take. Then... it is taken up in the Great Universal Rhythm.

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14 March 1970

Mother began this conversation by referring to some of Sri Aurobindo's Thoughts and Aphorisms. The aphorisms, with Mother's written comments upon them, are printed below.

383—Machinery is necessary to modern humanity because of our incurable barbarism. If we must encase ourselves in a bewildering multitude of comforts and trappings, we must needs do without Art and its methods; for to dispense with simplicity and freedom is to dispense with beauty. The luxury of our ancestors was rich and even gorgeous, but never encumbered.

384—I cannot give to the barbarous comfort and encumbered ostentation of European life the name of civilisation. Men who are not free in their souls and nobly rhythmical in their appointments are not civilised.

385—Art in modern times and under European influence has become an excrescence upon life or an unnecessary menial; it should have been its chief steward and indispensable arranger.

So long as the mind governs life with the presumptuous certitude that it knows, how can the reign of the Divine be established?

12 March 1970

386—Disease is needlessly prolonged and ends in death oftener than is inevitable, because the mind of the patient supports and dwells upon the disease of his body.

How absolutely true!

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387—Medical Science has been more a curse to mankind than a blessing. It has broken the force of epidemics and unveiled a marvellous surgery; but, also, it has weakened the natural health of man and multiplied individual diseases; it has implanted fear and dependence in the mind and body; it has taught our health to repose not on natural soundness but a rickety and distasteful crutch compact from the mineral and vegetable kingdoms.

388—The doctor aims a drug at a disease; sometimes it hits, sometimes misses. The misses are left out of account, the hits treasured up, reckoned and systematised into a science.

It is wonderful. Wonderful!

389—We laugh at the savage for his faith in the medicine man; but how are the civilised less superstitious who have faith in the doctors? The savage finds that when a certain incantation is repeated, he often recovers from a certain disease; he believes. The civilised patient finds that when he doses himself according to a certain prescription, he often recovers from a certain disease; he believes. Where is the difference?

One could say in conclusion that it is the faith of the patient which gives the remedy its power to heal.

If men had an absolute faith in the healing power of Grace, they would perhaps avoid many illnesses.¹

13 March 1970

You have seen the last aphorisms?

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Yes, on diseases, doctors.... But there, in an aphorism, Sri Aurobindo gives just a small sentence which I find wonderful, where he says: "Machinery is necessary to modern humanity because of our incurable barbarism."

(Mother shakes her head and remains silent for a long time.) Today I received the news that X has passed away. She had gone through a serious operation, she recovered, came back home, she wrote to me saying, "I am getting better and better" ... and then, passed away. I got the news today itself. It is like that.

It was the same with Z, the same thing, a relapse. And it looks so much like... it is the effort against, yes, what Sri Aurobindo calls barbarism (Mother makes a gesture which takes in the whole earth atmosphere). This seems to be... I do not know if it is refusal or an incapacity to come out of the mental construction. And the action of this Consciousness... (how to say it?) is almost pitiless in order to show to what extent the whole mental construction is false—everything, everything, even those reactions that seem spontaneous, all that is the result of an extremely complex mental construction.

Yes, it is pitiless.

You are born within it and it seems so natural to feel in accordance with it, to react in accordance with it, to organise everything in accordance with it, so much so that... it makes you bypass the Truth.

It is even in the organisation of the body itself.

So the Action seems to impose itself with an extraordinary force and that seems (seems to us) pitiless (Mother strikes her fist into Matter), so that the lesson might be learnt.

I remembered the time when Sri Aurobindo was there.... Well, the inner part of the being was in a consciousness that felt, that saw things according to the higher consciousness: altogether different; and then, just when Sri Aurobindo fell ill and when there were all those things, first of all the accident (he broke

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his thigh)... then the body, the body was saying all the time: "These are dreams, these are dreams, this is not for us; for us, the body, it is like that" (gesture indicating under the earth).... It was frightful!... And all that is gone. It is gone completely after so many years, so many years of effort, it is gone; and the body itself felt the divine Presence, it had the impression that... all must necessarily change. And then, some days ago this formation that had left (which is an earthly formation, of all humanity, that is to say, of those who had the vision, the perception, even only the aspiration for the higher Truth—when they come back to the Fact, they stand before this terribly painful thing, this ceaseless negation of all circumstances), this formation from which the body had been completely liberated has come back. It has come back, but... when it came back, when the body saw that, it saw it as one sees a falsehood. And I understood how much the body had changed, because when it saw that, it had the impression... it looked at that with a smile and the impression, ah! that it was an old formation with no truth in it any more. And this was an extraordinary experience: that, the time for that has ended—the time for that has ended. And I know that this Pressure of the Consciousness is a pressure so that things as they were—so miserable, so small, so obscure, so... inescapable as well, apparently—all that is gone behind (Mother makes a gesture over her shoulders); it is a past that has passed. So I really saw—I saw, I understood—that the work of this Consciousness (which is without pity, it does not care whether the thing is difficult or not, probably it does not even care much for apparent ravages) is so that the normal condition should no longer be a thing so heavy, so obscure, and so ugly—so low—and that it should be the dawn... something breaking out on the horizon: a new consciousness—something more true, more luminous.

What Sri Aurobindo says here of diseases is just that: the force of habit and of all its constructions and all that appears inescapable and irrevocable in diseases, all that, it is

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as though experiences were multiplied in order to show... in order that one might learn that it is simply a question of attitude, yes, attitude, of going beyond, going beyond this mental prison in which humanity has shut itself and of... breathing up above.

And it is the experience of the body. Before, those who had inner experiences used to say, "Yes, up there it is so, but here..." Now the "but here" very soon will no longer be. This is the conquest that is being done, this tremendous change: that physical life must be governed by the higher consciousness and not by the mental world. It is a change over of authority.... It is difficult. It is hard. It is painful. Naturally there is breakage, but... But truly one can see—one can see. And that is the real change, it is that which will enable the new Consciousness to express itself. And the body is learning, learning its lesson—all bodies, all bodies.

(Silence)

It is the old division made by the mind: up above, it is quite all right, you may have all the experiences and everything is luminous, wonderful; here, nothing to be done. And the feeling that when one is born, still one is born in the world where nothing can be done. That explains, moreover, why all those who had not foreseen the possibility that things could be otherwise, used to say, "Better to depart and then..." All that has become so clear. But that change, the fact that it is no longer inevitable, that is the great Victory: it is no longer inevitable. One feels—one feels, one sees—and the body itself has had the experience that soon here also it can be more true.

There is, there is truly something changed in the world.

(Silence)

Naturally, it will take some time before it is really established.

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There, it is battle. From all sides, on all levels there is an assault of things that come to say externally, "Nothing has been changed"—but it is not true. It is not true, the body knows that it is not true. And now it knows, it knows in what direction.

And what Sri Aurobindo has written in these aphorisms, just what I am looking at now, is so prophetic! It was so much the vision of the True Thing. So prophetic.

(Silence)

And I see now, I see how his departure and his work so... so vast, yes, and so constant, in the subtle physical, how much, how much it has helped! How much it has (Mother makes a gesture of kneading Matter) helped to prepare things, to change the physical structure.

All the experiences that others have had, which were in order to come in contact with the higher worlds, left here below the physical as it is.... How to say it? From the beginning of my life till Sri Aurobindo's departure, I was in the consciousness that one can go up, one can know, one can have all the experiences (indeed, one did have them), but when one came back into this body... it was the old mental laws, for-mi-da-ble, which ruled things. And then, all these years have been years of preparation—preparation—liberation and preparation, and these days now it has been... ah! the physical recognition, made by the body, that it has changed.

It has to be "worked out", as it is said, it has to be realised in all the details, but the change is done—the change is done.

That is to say, the material conditions elaborated by the mind, fixed by it (Mother closes her two fists), that appeared to be inevitable to such an extent that those who had a living experience of the higher worlds thought that one must flee from the world, give up this material world if one wanted to live in the truth (that is the basis of all these theories and faiths); but now it is no longer like that. The physical is capable of

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receiving the higher Light, the Truth, the true Consciousness and of manifesting it.

It is not easy, it needs endurance and will, but a day will come when this will be quite natural. It is just, just the door opened—that is all, now one must go on.

(Silence)

Naturally, what was established clings and struggles desperately. That is the cause of all the trouble (gesture indicating the earthly atmosphere)—it has lost the game. It has lost the game.

(Silence)

It took... a little more than a year for this Consciousness² to win this victory. And still, naturally, it is not visible except to those who have the inner vision, but... but it is done.

(Long silence)

It was this, the work that Sri Aurobindo had given me. Now I understand.

But it is as if from all sides—all sides—these forces, these powers of the mind rose up in protest—in violent protest—to impose their old laws: "But it was always so!"... It is finished, however. It will not be always so. There!

(Silence)

Something of this battle had been going on in this body these last days.... It was really very interesting.... There was out-side,coming from outside, an attempt to submit the body to experiences in order to compel it to recognise: "No, what has always

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been will always be; you may try, but it is an illusion", and so something happened, quite a little disorganisation in the body, and then the body answered with its attitude: a peace like this (gesture of immobility), and its attitude (gesture of hands open): "It is as Thou willest, Lord, as Thou willest."... Like a flash everything disappears! And this has happened several times, at least a dozen times in a day. Then—then the body begins to feel: "There it is!"... It has this delight, this delight of... having lived the Marvel. It is not as it was, it is no more as it was—it is no more as it was.

One has still to fight on, one must have patience, courage, will, confidence—but it is no more "like that"; it is the old thing that seeks to cling—hideous! hideous. But... it is no more like that, no more like that.

There!

(Silence)

And this also: how far, how far will the body be able to go? This also, it is... perfectly peaceful and happy: it is "What Thou willest."

(Long silence)

All the rest appears so old, so old, like something... belonging to a dead past—that seeks to resuscitate itself, but cannot any more.

And all, all, all the circumstances are as catastrophic as possible—the worries and complications and difficulties, all, all have risen up violently, like wild beasts, but... it is finished. The body knows that all this is finished. Perhaps it will take centuries, but it is finished. For it to disappear, that may take centuries, but now it is finished.

This realisation, altogether concrete and absolute, that one could have only when one came out of Matter (Mother lowers a

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finger): it is sure, it is sure and certain one will have it even here.

(Long silence)

This is the fourteenth month since the Consciousness came—fourteenth month, twice seven.

(Silence)

This is the fourteenth?

Yes, the fourteenth.

Then, it is interesting.

(Silence)

How much he has worked since he left! Oh!... all the while, all the while.

(Silence)

It seems... it seems to be a miracle in the body. The disappearance of this formation seems truly miraculous.

And everything is getting clear.

We shall see.

(Long silence)

It was relatively quick.

(Silence)

Well...

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That is to say, it is now possible for every human consciousness with a little faith to come out of this hypnotism of the mind?

Yes, yes, exactly so. Exactly so.

Exactly so.

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20 May 1970

Are we following your experience even a little? What should we do to be a little more in the movement?

Some are beginning to have experiences; some have the experiences but do not know! (Mother laughs) It has some effect.

The greatest difficulty, as always, is the mind, because it wants to understand in its own way. That is the difficulty.... There are some who would go much more quickly if they did not have that. They have the feeling that if they do not understand mentally they have not understood.

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27 June 1970

Since long you have not spoken...

(Silence)

To express, there must be a minimum of mentalisation, and that is very difficult because it is the body that is busy having all kinds of experiences and is learning, but as soon as it tries to express itself, it says, "No, it is not true, it is not so."... (Mother draws small narrow squares) It is like drawing geometrical designs with life. That is its impression.

Even otherwise, it is inexpressible, because it is multiple, complex, and if you do not lay it out in an explanation... it cannot even be said. And as you lay it out in an explanation, at that very moment it is no more true.

All these days, it is this experience of the consciousness that just a little displacement (how to say it?), just a little change of attitude, which cannot even be expressed, and in one case one is in divine bliss, and, things remaining the same, it becomes almost a torture! And it is constantly so. Well, there are moments when the body would scream in pain and... and just a little, just a little change, which is almost inexpressible, and the thing becomes bliss—it becomes... the other thing, it becomes this extraordinary thing, the Divine everywhere. And so the body all the while is moving from the one to the other, like a kind of gymnastic, a struggle of the consciousness between the two.

And it becomes extremely acute; sometimes there are seconds when the body says, "Ah! I have had enough of it, enough" and pfft! (Mother makes a gesture of reversal.) Then, it is impossible to say. Whatever is said is no more truly true.

And all the suffering vibrations are, as it were, sustained by the mass of the general human consciousness—yes, it is that.

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And the other is sustained by... something that does not seem to intervene, it seems to be like that (gesture meaning immutable) in comparison with this human mass trying to express itself.... So it is impossible to say all that.

And constantly, constantly there is either this immutable Peace—this superlative Peace, which is greater than any peace that one can feel—and at the same time, one knows (it cannot be said "one feels", but one knows) that so great is the rapidity of the movement of transformation that it cannot be perceived materially. And the two are conjoined and this body passes from one to the other, and sometimes... sometimes the two are almost together (Mother shakes her head, indicating that it is impossible to express herself).

And then, it gives to the vision of ordinary things, that is to say, of life as it is, the perception—from the point of view, not divine, but as compared with the Divine—of a general madness, and no difference is truly perceptible between what men call "insane" and what they call "reasonable".... Yes, it is ... it is comic, this difference that men make. One would like to tell them: "But you are all alike, in different degrees!"... So...

And all that is a world of simultaneous perceptions; so truly it is impossible to speak.

That, there is nothing there (Mother touches her head), nothing passes that way, nothing is there. It is something... something that has no precise form but has innumerable experiences at the same time, with a capacity for expression that has remained what it is, that is to say, incapable.

(Silence)

For example, there is, at the same time, for whatever happens, the explanation ("explanation" is not the right word, but after all...), the explanation of the ordinary human consciousness ("ordinary", I do not mean commonplace, I mean human consciousness), the explanation such as Sri Aurobindo gives through

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an illumined mind, and... the divine perception. All the three simultaneously for the same thing—how, how to describe this?

And it is constant, all the while in this way. And then that (Mother points to her body), it is not in a condition to express itself, it is not the time for expression.

It is so to such a degree that even when I write, it is like that. So I try to put whatever can be contained into our stupid formulas—and I put in so much! so much! which cannot be expressed through words—and then when they read out to me what I have written, I am tempted to say, "You are joking with me, you have taken everything out of it!"

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1 July 1970

I had an experience which was for me interesting, because it was for the first time. It was yesterday or the day before, I do not remember. X was there just in front of me, and I saw her psychic being, dominating over her by so much (gesture indicating about twenty centimetres), taller. It was the first time. Her physical being was small and her psychic being was so much bigger. And it was an unsexed being, neither man nor woman. Then I said to myself (possibly it is always so, I do not know, but here I noticed it very clearly), I said to myself, "But it is the psychic being, it is that which will materialise itself and become the supramental being!"

I saw it, it was so. There were particularities, but these were not well-marked, and it was clearly a being that was neither man nor woman, having the combined characteristics of both. And it was bigger than the person and in every way overtopped her by about so much (gesture surpassing the physical body by about twenty centimetres); she was there and it was like this (same gesture). And it had this colour... this colour... which if it became quite material would be the colour of Auroville.¹ It was fainter, as though behind a veil, it was not absolutely precise, but it was that colour. There was hair on the head, but... it was somewhat different. I shall see better perhaps another time. But it interested me very much, because it was as though that being were telling me, "But you are busy looking to see what kind of being the supramental will be—there it is! There, it is that." And it was there. It was the psychic being of the person.

So, one understands. One understands: the psychic being materialises itself... and that gives continuity to evolution. This

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creation gives altogether the feeling that there is nothing arbitrary, there is a kind of divine logic behind and it is not like our human logic, it is very much superior to ours—but there is one, and that was fully satisfied when I saw this.

It is really interesting. I was very interested. It was there, calm and quiet, and it said to me, "You were looking, well, there it is, yes, it is that!"

And then I understood why the mind and the vital were sent out of this body, leaving the psychic being—naturally it was that which had been always governing all the movements, so it was nothing new, but there are no difficulties any more: all the complications that were coming from the vital and the mental, adding their impressions and tendencies, all gone. And I understood: "Ah! It is that, it is this psychic being which has to become the supramental being."

But I never sought to know what its appearance was like. And when I saw X, I understood. And I see it, I am seeing it still, I have kept the memory. It was as though the hair on the head was red (but it was not like that). And its expression! An expression so fine, and sweetly ironical... oh! extraordinary, extraordinary.

And you understand, I had my eyes open, it was almost a material vision.

So one understands. All of a sudden all the questions have vanished, it has become very clear, very simple.

(Silence)

And it is precisely the psychic that survives. So, if it materialises itself, it means the abolition of death. But "abolition" ... nothing is abolished except what is not in accordance with the Truth, which goes away... whatever is not capable of transforming itself in the image of the psychic and becoming an integral part of the psychic.

It is truly interesting.

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5 August 1970

This Consciousness that came more than a year ago, a year and a half now, seems to be working very very hard, very positively, for sincerity. It does not allow "pretence", that one should pretend to be that and not be that. He¹ wants that the thing should be the true thing.

Yes, everything comes up.

It is an excellent mentor for this body, it is giving it lessons continually.... I do not know if all bodies are like that, but this one feels just like a little child and it wants to go to school, it wants to be shown where it is making a mistake and to learn everything. And it is learning constantly. But whatever comes from outside... This is very interesting: the Consciousness, the Consciousness there (gesture upward) is influenced by nothing: it is the witness, it sees, but does not receive; the body still receives vibrations: when certain people come and sit before me, all of a sudden there are pains, things do not go well, but the body knows now (naturally it knows that it is suffering), but it does not blame others, it blames itself; it takes that as indicating the points that are still not solely under the divine influence. And from this point of view the thing is very interesting.... It knows the distance there is between the consciousness of the being which uses it and itself, and it does not suffer for that but is full of a perfect humility, a perfect modesty. And it is not surprised, it is not anxious, because it is: "Let Thy will be done; it is not my affair, I am not capable of judging and I do not try—let Thy will be done." So, the body is like that (gesture, passive and abandoned). And when it disappears, when it is wholly,

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wholly surrendered, does no more exist by itself, then the Force passing through it becomes... sometimes formidable. Sometimes one can see, the witness consciousness can see that there should truly be no limit to the possibilities. But it is not yet that, it is far from that.... It comes as an example of what can be. But... before it becomes spontaneous and natural...

(Long silence)

Do you have anything to say?

I do not know if it is correct, but I have the feeling that there is a certain difference between what was a few years ago and what is now, in your presence with us, if I may say so. For example, formerly I often had the feeling that you were actively with us, or you were actively busy with us; now, I do not know if it is exact but I have rather the feeling that it is left to a force... not impersonal but...

Ah! It is true that much of the activity I have left to this Consciousness. This is true. I let this Consciousness work actively, because... I found that truly it knows. Otherwise, the feeling of nearness with you is much stronger than before—very much stronger. I have almost the feeling that I am moving within you, which I did not have before. But perhaps, before, my consciousness used to put a pressure upon yours; now it must not be doing that any more, because... it is as though I was doing it from within.

Yes, when one is with you, near you, this is evident, one feels it. Yes, one feels that you are within.

Yes, it is that.

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It is quite that, but it is rather when one is physically away that one feels that one is more with something impersonal. I do not know if it is exact.

It may have become impersonal. I have the feeling that even the consciousness of the body has a minimum of the personal in it. At times I no longer have the feeling of the limits of my body.... I do not know how to say it.... Yes, it is that, it is almost as though it had become fluid. And there should no longer be any personal action. But precisely, inside (I do not know how to explain), it is not even something like a person who has become so big as to take others within herself, it is not that: it is a force, a consciousness which is spread over everything. I do not feel any limit, I feel it is a thing spread out, even physically.... It is because of this that if someone comes with a very active critical sense, wanting to observe and judge, it is as though he enters within, you understand, and that upsets one inside.

I do not think the action gives the feeling of a personal action—since long it has been so (that is to say, since the beginning of the year at least). When people write to me saying that they felt I had done this or that for them, I am always taken by surprise. If they said, "The Force has done that" or "The Consciousness has done that", that would appear to me more natural.

What speaks, what observes is a centre of consciousness that is there (gesture up above), but naturally not localised: for communicating through the mouth and the senses, it is there (same gesture). But that has not the character of a personality.... Well, when I am asked the question, "How do you see that?" it takes me a moment to understand the question. I do not feel that it is a person who sees.

Some experiences make me think that this sense of personal limitation is not necessary for physical existence; it is a thing that has to be learnt, but it is not necessary. It was always felt that a defined body was necessary to form separate individualities—it is not necessary. One can live physically without that, the

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body can live without that.... Spontaneously, that is to say, left to its old habits and ways of being, it is difficult; it produces an inner organisation that looks very much like disorder—it is difficult. Well, the problems come up all the while, for everything—everything—there is not a single activity of the body which does not face the question raised by this.² The process is no longer the old one, it is no more what it was; but as it is, it has not become a habit, a spontaneous habit; that is to say, it is not natural, it requires the consciousness to be always on the watch—for everything, even for swallowing food. And that makes life a little difficult—particularly, yes, particularly when I am seeing people. I see a huge number of people (forty, fifty people every day) and each one brings something which necessitates that this Consciousness that works out all this has to adapt itself to the things coming from outside.... And I see, many people fall ill (or think they are ill or seem to get ill or are really so), but it becomes concrete in the body through their way of being, which is the old way; for this new physical consciousness, it can be avoided, but, oh! it means such a difficulty. One must maintain, through a sort of conscious concentration, a condition, a way of being which is not natural according to the old nature, but which is evidently the new way of being. But in that way, illness can be avoided. But it is almost a Herculean task.

It is difficult.

You understand, all the impossibilities, all the "that cannot be, that cannot be done", all that has been swept away; but it is swept away in principle, and it is busy trying to become a fact, a concrete fact.

This is quite recent, that is, after the beginning of this year. And then, there is all the old habit—one might say, ninety years of habit. But the body knows, it knows that it is only a habit.

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11 January 1971

After a long physical trial of about a month and a half, Mother made the following comments, which were noted down from memory by a disciple.

In physical vision a much more continued concentration is needed. Physical sight serves to stabilise. It gives a continuity to things. It is the same thing with regard to hearing. So, when they are not there any more, one becomes directly conscious of the thing, and that gives the true knowledge. The Supramental will surely act in that way.

Physical sight and hearing have been thrown into the background to make room for identification by consciousness, for the sake of the growth of consciousness.

The means for relating, knowing, is consciousness identifying itself with the thing or the person. Instead of having the normal sense of separation, there is the sense of constant union. There are experiences altogether interesting. There are people who call me and think of me. That comes into the field of my consciousness. And after a time I am told, "Such a person has come" or "Something has happened to such a person", and I say, "I know." At the time the thing had happened, I was not told anything, but I was conscious as though the thing had happened in a part of my own being.

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16 January 1971

One of my legs had been dead for a long time (it is just beginning to revive), paralysed. One leg. So naturally, all became difficult.... But what was remarkable, I can tell you immediately, is that the consciousness established there (gesture above the head) became more and more strong, more and more clear; and it was constant. I worked, I continued to work, not only for India but for the world and in constant relation ("consulted", you understand), actively.

About transformation, well, I do not know.... What I have explained about "replacement of consciousness" is being done methodically, methodically, continually, continually, but then with... apparent damages or in any case, for a time, a great diminution of capacities. But it is a curious phenomenon with the sight and hearing: from time to time it is clear, as clear as it can be, and from time to time it is completely veiled. And that has very very clearly another origin—another origin of influence. It will take months, I believe, before I am able to see clearly. In any case, the general consciousness (same gesture above the head), what may be called the universal consciousness (in any case the terrestrial consciousness), has not moved for a minute—not for a minute. It remained there all the while.

You have seen this note?¹

Yes, Mother, I have seen it.

What did you think of it?

I thought it should be like that probably, it is a new functioning that is taking place.

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It is a new functioning. It is interesting.

Is it your perception of beings and happenings that has changed? Is it your way of perceiving that has changed?

Yes, altogether—altogether. It is very strange.... Actually, all this time has been utilised for developing the consciousness of the physical being. And this physical being (Mother touches her body) seems really to have been prepared for another consciousness, because there are things... its reactions are altogether different, its attitude is different. I have passed through a period of total indifference when the world represented nothing, meant nothing. And then, gradually, from there emerged a new perception, as it were. It is only on the way.

But it was not an innocent paralysis! For at least three weeks—at least—for three weeks, a constant pain, night and day, twenty-four hours out of twenty-four, without fluctuation, none: it was as though I was being torn asunder.... So there was no question of seeing anybody. Now it is finished. The pain is quite bearable and the body has resumed a little of its normal life.

But I wanted to tell you that my consciousness was all the time active with you. Did you feel it?

I felt very strongly the Power.

Ah! That's it then.

Yes, and quite instantaneously, quite immediately.

It is good.

I thought particularly that if it came down into your leg, that would mean it came down wholly into Matter now.

Yes, yes. I too took it in that way. It was not only the leg, but the lower part of the leg (Mother touches her feet).... But I

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noticed how things, the so-called catastrophes or calamities or misfortunes or difficulties, how all that comes just in the nick of time to help you—just as it is needed to help you.... Indeed, all that which in the physical nature belonged still to the old world, to its habits, its ways of doing and being, its ways of acting, all that could not be "handled" in any other way than this: through illness.

I cannot say that it has not been interesting.

But I, on my side, kept contact with everyone even physically—I do not know if they remained conscious or not, but I kept contact with everybody. It depends on the receptivity of people. I did not feel at all that there was any rupture of relations or anything of the kind—not at all, not at all. Even at the time when, externally, I was suffering in that way and people thought I was wholly concerned with my suffering, it did not occupy me. I do not know how to explain... I was seeing quite well that this poor body was not very bright, but that did not occupy me. All the while there was the feeling of this... this Truth which has to be understood and manifested.

And there was this note (how to say it?), it was the outcome of something and the beginning of something also, and in a very precise way. I do not know if it is understandable.

It is quite understandable.

It seemed to you understandable?

Yes, you said that the working of the sight and hearing was probably suppressed so that you might be directly conscious of things, without passing through the sense organs.

Yes, but this note is already a thing of the past, because I have begun again to see, but in another way. I have begun again to see and hear.

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Basically, you see and hear as it is needed.

Yes, yes. Oh! That is very clear, very clear. What I need to hear, I hear, even if it is the slightest sound; but all the noises of conversation, all the things that make so much noise, I do not hear at all!... Something has changed. But it is old—it is old, that is to say, old habits are there. But happily, I was not a person of habits.... Yes (Mother smiles), you can say: it is something tough that is in the process of changing! So it is not supple, it is not easy. But the change is there, the change is evident. I have changed very much, even as regards character, as regards understanding, as regards the vision of things—much, very much.... There has been wholly a regrouping.

Only, I did not know how to make use of this note in an understandable way.

But, Mother, it is quite understandable.

It is all right. It is simply not to let people down in that way: all at once, nothing more. Afterwards, one is so far away that people do not understand at all.

(Silence)

Certainly, the principle of the new consciousness is that things are done just at the moment when needed, and then that is all.

Yes, yes.

There is no planning, no foreseeing.

Yes, yes; exactly so.

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(Silence)

The world is in a frightful condition.

But I never felt so much as now that the thing is at hand.

Yes, yes, yes, just so. Yes.

I have the feeling that it is near at hand.

Yes, yes, quite near at hand.

(Silence)

There was a whole period when I was absolutely inaccessible because I was suffering continuously—one is worthless then. It was continuous, continuous. One might say that it was but a cry all the while. It lasted a long time, lasted several weeks. I did not count. Then gradually, it alternated with moments of calmness when I had no feeling of my leg. And it is only for the last two or three days that it looks as if it is being put back in order.... Yes, it was such... it was the whole problem of the world—a world that is nothing but pain and suffering, and a big note of interrogation: why?

I tried all the palliatives that one uses: to change the pain into pleasure, to remove the capacity of feeling, to occupy oneself with some other thing.... I tried all the "tricks"—not a single one succeeded! There is something in the physical world as it is which is not... (how to explain?) which is not yet open to the divine Vibration. And it is this something which does all, all, all the evil.... The Divine Consciousness is not felt. And then, any number of imaginary things (but very real to the sensation)exist, and that thing, the only true thing is not felt.... But now it is better. It is better.

It is truly interesting. I believe something may have been done on the general score—it was not merely the difficulty of

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one body or one person: I believe something has been done to prepare Matter to receive as it must, in a suitable way—it was as though it received in a wrong way and it has learnt to receive in the right way.

It will come. Perhaps, I do not know if it will take months or years for the thing to become clear.

Then, before taking leave, the disciple reads out a note written by Mother.

I do not remember what it is.

It is a message you gave for the radio.

"We want to be messengers of
        Light and Truth.
    A future of harmony offers
itself to be proclaimed to the world."

Yes, it is all right! It gives courage to people.

Yes, Mother, but as for me, I do not know, I have a very strong feeling that it is quite near.

Yes.

That is what I feel.

Yes, you are right. You are right. As for me, one must be absolutely blind not to see it. It has reached that point.

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3 March 1971

I have the feeling that your look has changed much. (Mother nods approvingly.) For more than a year, and more and more, it is like that of Sri Aurobindo.

Yes?... (Mother smiles) Possibly!

Before, your look was a "diamond look", a look... it was yourself, powerfully yourself. Now it is becoming like that of the infinite.

Oh! But my way of seeing is not the same.

Yes, just so, I wanted to ask you: when you look at people in this way, what is it that you see?

I believe I see... most exactly, it is their condition, the state in which they are. Especially, there are some who seem as though closed, who, as far as I am concerned, do not see, who are altogether in their outward consciousness; and then there are those who are open—there are... some children, a remarkable thing, who were as though entirely open (gesture as of a flower to the sun), ready to absorb. It is particularly the receptivity of people which I see, the state in which they are: those who come with an aspiration, those who come with a curiosity, those who come... as though with a kind of obligation, and then there are those who thirst for light—there are not many of them, but there are quite a few children. Today I saw one who was charming! ... Oh, wonderful!

And I see only that. Not what they think, what they say (all that appears to me superficial, uninteresting); it is the state of receptivity in which they happen to be. It is that particularly which I see.

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(Silence)

I believe really that it is among the children that will be found those who can begin the new race. Men are... crusted over.

Well, I am constantly struggling against people who have come here so that they may be comfortable and "free to do whatever they like", so... I tell them, "The world is big enough, you can go out"—there is no soul, no aspiration, nothing.

You know my feeling? They are all, all old and I am the only one to be young! It is that, yes, this flame, this will... what they call "push". To be satisfied with petty personal satisfactions... which take you nowhere, busy with what they are going to eat, oh!...

I have the feeling that now there is a sort of "display" (you know, "display"?), a show of all that should not be.

Yes.

But the flame, the flame of aspiration (Mother shakes her head), there are not many who bring it.

Provided they are what they call "comfortable", it is all they need—and free to do some nonsense which they would not do in the world!... On the other side, one feels that to hasten the—one could hasten it if one were... if one were a conqueror!

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1 May 1971

One really feels that the world is in turmoil.

Yes, oh, yes!

And individuals.

(Silence)

Since the morning, it has been like—strikes, quarrels, disorders.... And then the feeling that order must be re-established with the help of those who have created the disorder. That is the thing to be done. Instead of the basis of ordinary goodwill and all the moral and social rules—all that dashed to the ground—one must rise above, the divine Will and the divine Harmony must be there, it is that which we want; and then those who have revolted against the ordinary law of things and the ordinary social conventions: prove that you are in relation with a higher consciousness and a truer truth.

It is time to do it (gesture of a leap upward).

And from the point of view of organising power, it is a power... extremely powerful. It is a wonder. And then, if this power is placed at the disposal of the higher order, the truer consciousness, something can be done.

One must... must make a leap upward.

All the people who want to re-establish order pull backward into all the old ideas—that is why they never succeed. That is finished, finished for good. We go upward. Only they who rise can act.

(Long silence)

You have nothing? Nothing to ask?

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I do not know very well in which direction I am moving.

There is only one direction—towards the Divine. And as you know, it is as much inward as it is outward, as much upward as downward. It is everywhere. It is in the world as it is that one must find the Divine and cling to Him—to Him alone; there is no other way.

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22 May 1971

If the Lord wants success for us, it can be something tremendous. There is the possibility of a tre-men-dous success—not in the air, but here. The whole thing is to know whether the time for that success has come.

(Long silence)

Everywhere there is the possibility, I tell you, of an... extraordinary success. Has the moment come? I do not know.... As for myself, I make myself like this (gesture of smallness), physically quite small, and I leave... (gesture of arms open wide towards the Lord).

You see, there is the Will that is coming down and then there are all these formations that get in and delay its execution—I would like, I would like my atmosphere to be... a limpid, altogether limpid transmitter. I do not try even to know what it is, for that too brings in an ordinary humanity.... The limpid, limpid transmitter: let it come like that (gesture of descent), pure, in all its purity—even if it be formidable.

In reality, we do not know why this is like that, why that is like that, and we have a vision... even if our vision englobes the earth, it is so small, so small—so exclusive: we want this, we do not want that.... First of all, the very first thing is to make the instruments... one must be limpid, limpid, letting things pass without deformation, without obstruction.

Indeed, I am spending my time at that: trying to be like that.

But this possibility of victory that you are feeling, is it something recent?

Yes.

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It is recent. Because, apparently, the circumstances are evidently not so good—apparently.

Oh! You know... all the circumstances seemed to organise themselves for a catastrophe.

Yes.

Only a few days ago it was as though the catastrophe was impending. And then, at that moment, my whole being was, as though... (how to say it?) it was, yes, one might call it an aspiration for the true Victory, not that which this one wants or that one wants or... but the real Victory. It is this which seems to have brought in all the difficulties—these exclusive wills. And then, all at once there appeared as though a light: the possibility of the Victory. It is still... it is not miraculous, but it is the Intervention... the intervention of the Supreme Wisdom. Will it be concrete? We will see. It seems to come, it seems to come in this way (gesture of a certain height, the two palms turned downward), as a possibility.

No, it is recent, quite recent. I cannot say, for it did not come suddenly, but it is a question of days.

Yes, because for some time I was feeling a great pessimism.

That is a bad attitude.

I did not have that attitude, however, but it was as though a pessimistic atmosphere was coming in.

All that does not want the Divine creates this atmosphere purposely to discourage those who want the Divine. You must... you must not pay attention. That, that is the way of the devil. Pessimism is the demon's weapon and he senses his situation

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(gesture of shaking). Well, if what I see as possible is realised, it will be truly a decisive victory over the adverse forces—naturally, he defends himself as best he can.... That, it is always the devil; as soon as you see even the tail of pessimism, it is the devil. That is his great weapon.

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9 June 1971

There is a rush of adverse forces. A mad rush. But the Response has started coming—it is just a small beginning. In everyone it was as though a hurricane—it has not gone completely. All that was believed to have been conquered and repulsed, rushes back again—in the most unexpected persons—in all forms, but especially in character, oh!... doubts and revolts and all that....

(Silence)

A message was asked from me for the whole of India. I have given it. (Mother hands the text to the disciple.)

Supreme Lord, Eternal Truth

Let us obey Thee alone and live according to Truth.

It is a terrible onrush of Falsehood. It was as though the whole world, everyone were lying, even the most unexpected people—everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. And for me it was a living thing (Mother makes a gesture of seeing) oh! horrible, you can't imagine.... A little twist to the right, a little twist to the left, a little twist... nothing, nothing, nothing is straight. And then the body asked itself, "Where is your falsehood?" It looked at itself. And it saw this old story: "The Lord is to be called only when the matter is important! (Mother laughs) You don't expect to be with Him all the time!" Then it got a good rap!... It was not aggressive, it looked something like humility—it got a good slap.

It was a mad fury of disagreeable things—more than disagreeable: truly, truly wicked and bad and destructive. A

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fury, until it got the understanding. Then this feeling came in the whole body, in all the cells, everywhere, all the while—it reached such a point that I was not able to swallow when I was eating—until everything, everything got the understanding: I exist only through the Divine and I cannot subsist but through the Divine... and I cannot be myself but by being the Divine. After that, things were better. Now the body has understood.

(Long silence)

You have nothing to ask? Nothing to say?

I have the feeling that the destiny is bad.

No, it is not true. This is part of the Falsehood; it is this Falsehood. There is no bad destiny, it is a lie! It is a real falsehood.... It is not true at all, at all, at all.

There, that just gives you an example: it is like that, like that everywhere (gesture, as though with claws). As for me, I feel as though I see goblins with hooked hands that try to clutch at everybody. Ah! You should have a look at them and then laugh—stick out your tongue, like a child with no manners.

(Long silence)

In any case, you are attacked on all sides.

Oh!... I tell you it is a massive rush—but it does not matter.... One must rise above, and then (gesture of seeing from above).

What I have told you is the Truth, it is the only remedy:

To exist only for the Divine.

To exist only through the Divine.

To exist only in the service of the Divine.

To exist only... by becoming the Divine.

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There you are.

There is no "you", there is no "one must wait", there is no "it will come in its time", there is no... all these things very reasonable do not exist any more—it is That (Mother brings down her fist), like a sword blade. It is That. It is That in spite of everything: the Divine, the Divine alone. All this rubbish of bad will and revolt and... all that (Mother lifts a stiff finger), that must be swept away. And that which says that one shall perish or be destroyed by That, is the ego—it is Sir Ego that tries to be taken as the true being.

But the body has learnt that even without the ego, it is what it is, because it is that by the divine Will, not by the ego—we exist by the divine Will and not by the ego. The ego was a means—a means for many centuries—now it is worth nothing, its time has passed. Now... (Mother brings down her fist), consciousness, it is the Divine; power, it is the Divine; action, it is the Divine; individuality, it is the Divine.

And the body has understood, felt very well; it has realised, understood that this sense of being a separate individuality is altogether useless, altogether; it is not at all indispensable for its existence, it is wholly useless. It exists through another power and another will which is not personal: it is the divine Will. And it will be what it should be only the day it feels that there is no difference between itself and the Divine. That is all.

All the rest is falsehood—falsehood, falsehood, and falsehood that must disappear. There is only one reality, there is only one life, there is only one consciousness (Mother brings down her fist): the Divine.

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17 July 1971

I have understood that if the Supreme Consciousness had for one single minute the kind of consciousness that men have, the world would be dissolved.... Quite spontaneously, for us, our reaction, our spontaneous reaction to things, to what seems to us bad, is to destroy what is false. The spontaneous reactions. Not to transform, but to destroy—you understand, there is a gulf between the two.

Yes.

And it is spontaneous, this idea of doing away—doing away with falsehood. But if for a single second the supreme Lord were to have that movement, there would be no world any more!... And this, I believe the body has understood. I believe it has understood, it was extraordinary.... What are we! What are men! They believe, God (Mother pretends to put on airs), they believe... oh!... If they have a little understanding or if they put in a little effort for perfection, oh! (same gesture) they believe they are, they believe they are extraordinary! (Mother takes her head between her hands and laughs.)

Somewhere Sri Aurobindo has said that when you are in touch with the divine consciousness, it gives you all of a sudden the sense... to what extent the world is ridiculous in its fatuity. The fatuity of men.... But even (I have had contacts with animals), even with the animals that has begun. Vanity, vanity, vanity, vanity....

(Silence)

You know, deception and attempts at deception are taken almost everywhere as goodwill. And those who do not want to deceive but who deceive themselves are already exceptional beings.

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These are not discoveries, but things that I saw; but they are seen occasionally, exceptionally, either for this or for that—but then, I had the vision of the whole world, of the whole earth, of the whole human effort, of all men, everything.... We live in a deception... it is frightful!... And what is more, one deceives oneself even more than one seeks to deceive others.

(Silence)

That is to say, we see nothing as it is.

(Long silence)

There is only one safety: to cling to the Divine, like this (gesture of clenched fists).

Not clinging to what one thinks to be the Divine, not even to that which one feels to be the Divine.... An aspiration... as sincere an aspiration as possible. And to cling to that.

(Silence)

You know, one thing I have already told you, it is that now the body, the consciousness of the body, knows in advance what is going to happen, it knows beforehand what people are going to tell it. But it does not know... (how to say it?) exactly how it happens materially, but the spirit in which it is done... constantly.... It is very strange. I am there, without moving, trying to belong to the Divine alone, and then things happen—they happen like this (gesture as of things happening upon a screen in front of her), things come, objects, facts, people speaking.... And then, at first I believed it was my material consciousness that could not remain silent, and then I found that it was coming from outside and it was getting materialised on the material plane. That is how, if I mentalised these things now, I could foresee, tell what is going to happen.... Only, in the ordinary man the

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mind makes use of this for prophesying—but happily the mind is not there, it is quiet, it is absent. Only, when things are told to me or spoken before me, nothing surprises this body, it seems to know. Strange. A kind of universalisation.

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21 July 1971

The body is becoming more and more conscious, but conscious in a very interesting manner.

For example?

For that one must mentalise, and I cannot.

(Silence)

I am beginning to know what is going to happen, what people are going to tell me, all that... how to explain?... It is as though I had become the circumstances, the people, the words, the...

The body is more and more conscious, but not in a mental way, not at all—but as... as things lived. I do not know how to explain. It is difficult to say... it is to feel (but, really, I do not know how to explain that) how in manifestation the human consciousness deforms the divine Action (gesture of a direct flow).... It is the constitution which is miserable. We belittle, we deform, we diminish everything—everything. We know the things, the Knowledge is there, around us, in us—and we are so complicated that we deform it. Everybody is like that.... So it is at the same time like a very precise sensation of all that has been organised from within by the Divine within, and as it comes out on the surface it gets deformed. Said thus it is senseless, but this is the nearest way to say it. This is our senseless way of saying a thing which is... so simple and so wonderful!... We are so perverted that we always choose what is deformed.

I do not know, even my words themselves are deforming the thing, but it is... something that I feel to be so simple, so luminous, so pure—so absolute. And then we make of it just what we see: a complicated, almost incomprehensible life.

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(Silence)

Well, I am there, and there is such a mass of circumstances, complexities, people... all, all, such a confusion; and then there is as though behind... it is not merely a Force, it is a Consciousness-Force—it is a Consciousness—and it is like... it is like a smile—a smile... a smile that knows everything. Yes, it is that. Then when I am quiet (gesture of open hands), it is as though there was nothing any more and all were wonderful. And then as soon as people begin to speak to me or as soon as I see someone, all the complexities come in—they make a mess of everything.

I am sure that it is the passage from this life to that Life.... When one will completely go over to that side, oh! all speculation will stop, all desire to explain, all desire to deduce, conclude, arrange—to all that there will be an end.... If one could ... be—be, simply be, be. But for us (I have noticed it), if we do not speak, if we do not think, if we do not decide, we believe we are outside life.... And then it is not always the same silence. The silence of the unspoken word, it is not that: it is the silence of the contemplation... that is dynamic. Silence of a dynamic contemplation. It is that.

Certainly it is the new mode of life that is preparing itself; therefore the other one must give place to it.

One may say: nothing knows—nowhere, no one—but there are those who aspire, (how to say it?) who have the will, the pull, the aspiration, the need to know—to know and to become—and then there are those who don't care a fig for such things... who live, eke out their small or big existence—be it as a head of state or as a sweeper, that makes no difference. It is the same thing, the vibrations are the same.

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28 August 1971

So, anything new?

Nothing, or always the same thing.

What?

I am waiting.

Ah! You are waiting—I too! (Laughter)

(Silence)

It is as though all the ways of seeing the world were passing by, one after another: the most detestable and the most wonderful—like this, like this, like this (Mother turns her hands like a kaleidoscope), and all of them come as though to say: there, one can see like this, there, one can see like that, there, one can... And the Truth... what is true? What is true?... All that (same movement of a kaleidoscope) and "Something" which one does not know.

First of all, I am sure that this necessity of seeing things, of thinking things, is purely human, and it is a means for transition. It is a period of transition which to us appears long, long, but it is in fact quite short.

Even our consciousness is an adaptation of the Consciousness—the Consciousness, the true Consciousness, that is another thing.

And so the conclusion for my body is... (as well as I can translate it): to nestle in the Divine. Not to try to understand, not to try to know—but to try to be... and to nestle. And I pass my time that way.

Not to "try": one minute in this way (gesture of slight withdrawal) is enough, and time no longer counts. Very strange, I

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experiment with all the small movements of life; well, when I nestle myself like this, when I stop thinking, simply the consciousness like this (gesture of going inward), all appears to be instantaneous. There is no time. When I am in the external consciousness (what I call "external" is a consciousness which sees the creation), then that takes time, more or less long according to the attention that is given. Then all, all appears... there is nothing that appears (how to say it?) absolute, in the sense of real—real, with a concrete reality—there is nothing that appears like that—except the unpleasant things in the body; then one is aware that it is imperfection. It is imperfection that makes it perceptible to the senses; otherwise it is like this (same gesture of going inward, nestled within the Lord). And "like that" the Power is tremendous, in the sense that... for example, in the case of some people an illness disappears (and in fact without my doing anything externally, without even my speaking to the person, nothing, nothing—cured), in the case of another who wants to leave... it is the end, it is tilting over to the other side. And so this other side has become at the same time altogether familiar and... absolutely unknown.

I remember a time when the memory of past lives, the memory of nightly activities was so concrete, this so-called invisible world was altogether concrete. Now... now all is like a dream—dream—all is like a dream veiling a Reality... a Reality... unknown and yet perceptible to the senses. I seem to be talking nonsense.

No, no!

Because the thing cannot be expressed.

You asked me the other day (your question has remained with me), you asked me: "When I am like that, silent and still, what is it that is there?"... It is just an attempt (I cannot say it is an aspiration, nor can I say it is an effort—it is the word urge in English): the truth as it is. And not trying to know it nor to

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understand it; all that is altogether beside the point: to be—to be—to be (Mother has a smile full of sweetness).

(Silence)

So it is altogether strange: at the same time—at the same time—not the one in the other nor the one with the other, but the one and the other, at the same time (Mother holds the fingers of her right hand between those of the left): wonderful and frightful.... Life as it is, as we feel it in our ordinary consciousness, as it is for men, seems to be a thing... so frightful that you ask how one can live there even for a minute; and the other, at the same time: a wonder. A wonder of Light, of Consciousness, of Power—wonderful. Oh! Power! a Power!... And it is not the power of a person (Mother pinches the skin of her hand), it is something... it is something which is all... And then one cannot express oneself.

So, quite naturally, what is most interesting is to find That. Quite naturally when I have nothing to do... (Mother makes a gesture of going within and nestling within the Lord).

(Long silence)

Only Thou—that is all.

And it is quite evident that the creation has that as its goal, that wonderful delight... of feeling itself to be Thou.

(Mother ends with a smile.)

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1 September 1971

As for the body, it is being trained to live only through the Divine, on the Divine, for everything—everything, everything, everything without exception. It is only when the consciousness is linked as much as it can be with the Divine Consciousness that there comes the sense of existence. It has now an extraordinary intensity. When the physical will get converted, it will be a solid thing, you know, which does not move—and complete. And so concrete.... The difference between being in the Divine, existing only through Him and in Him, and then being in the consciousness (not the ordinary, naturally, but the human consciousness) is so great that the one seems to be death beside the other, so much is it... That is to say, the physical realisation is truly a concrete realisation.

There has begun to take place a concentration of energy—oh! it is not yet that, very far from it, but... there is a beginning of the perception of what it will be. That, yes... it is truly wonderful. It is so full of power! So full of power and of reality in the consciousness that nothing, nothing else can have it—what is vital, mental, all that appears vague and uncertain. That, it is concrete (Mother holds her hands tight). And so strong.

There are still problems to be solved, but not with words nor with thoughts. And things are coming just to demonstrate—not only personal things but things all around: people, circumstances—all that, it is to teach the body to have the true consciousness. That, it is... wonderful.

(Mother goes within herself.)

The problem seems to have been to create a physical capable of bearing the Power that wants to manifest itself. All ordinary body consciousnesses are too thin and too fragile to bear the

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tremendous Power which must manifest itself. And so the body is in the process of training itself. And it is... you know, it is as though it perceived, all of a sudden, so wonderful, so wonderful a horizon, but wonderful tremendously; and then it is left to proceed as far as it can bear. A process of adaptation is needed. The transition... in full transition.

Will it be sufficiently plastic? I do not know. It is a question of plasticity. To be able to bear and transmit (Mother makes a gesture of a flow from above passing through her), presenting no obstruction to the Power that wants to manifest itself.

The appearances are only the future consequences. That is why... the appearance will be the last thing to change.

(Mother enters into contemplation.)

That can continue indefinitely... the feeling of having touched something and... (gesture of something escaping).

What did you feel?

It is Z who made me once understand what I feel near you; she had said, "When one is near you it is as though that made the body pray." Well, it is that; what I feel is a power which seems to take up all the parts of the body and... I do not know, fill them with an intense aspiration.

Yes. But that is what my body feels.

Yes, it makes the body pray, it fills the body with a Power that... I do not know, is like glowing gold that lifts up everything.

Yes, it is like that all the while.

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(Silence)

I feel... it flows in this way (Mother makes a gesture across herself) constantly.

It is perhaps that, Divine Love in Matter. (Mother laughs a great deal.) It is so intense and glowing at the same time—glowing. And it is so strong... it is so strong that one can hardly call it by the name "Love", for it does not correspond to anything that one understands.

Yes, I too do not... I am like this (gesture towards the forehead): nothing, nothing, nothing, empty, empty, empty.... There (gesture upward and wide), there, it is... yes, it is a golden vastness.

Yes.

(Silence)

I have a queer feeling that it is a kind of... as though the shell, or the bark of trees, the shell of a tortoise were melting, and the body itself is not like this (Mother makes a gesture of opening out, as though the body were bursting out towards the sun). That which to man seems like Matter is... as though something hardened that must fall away because it does not receive. And in this body, here (Mother touches the skin of her handM), it tries... it tries to (same gesture of opening out). Oh! It is strange, it is a strange sensation. If one could hold on long enough for the thing to melt, then that would be the true beginning.

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29 September 1971

Durga Puja: Victory Day (Vijaya Dashami)

It was clear, very clear today, a strong Pressure to say: Victory, it is Harmony; Victory, it is the Divine; and for the body, Victory is good health. Each and every ailment, each and every illness is a falsehood. It came this morning. And it was so clear. It was convincing.

So, it is all right.

It is as though by the Pressure all Falsehood had come out. The most unexpected things—in people, in objects, in circumstances. And it is truly... no imagination can equal that. It is unbelievable.

But it is a good sign, isn't it?

Oh, yes! Oh, yes!... It is as though there had been a poison, yes, and by pressing, the poison came out to disappear, and it is coming out!...

Later on, one will be able to speak of it. It is truly interesting, truly. Yes, it is a good sign, a very good sign.

Yes, it means that all these forces that for thousands of years lay hidden below...

Yes.

... have lost their refuge.

Yes, it is that. It is so.

We shall see. It is not time yet to speak of it. Later on. Unbelievable, my child!

But a Power! Power, oh!... (Mother shuts her eyes and smiles.)

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16 October 1971

How to master physical suffering?

It is just the experiences I am having now.

The body is in a state in which it sees that everything depends simply on how it is linked with the Divine—upon the state of its receptive surrender. I have had the experience even during these last days. The same thing which is the cause of a—more than a discomfort—a suffering, an almost unbearable ailment, with just a change in the receptivity of the body towards the Divine, disappears all of a sudden—and can even move to a blissful state. I have had the experience several times. For me it is only a question of sincerity become intense—in the consciousness that everything is the action of the Divine and that his action moves towards the quickest possible realisation, in the given conditions.

I might say: the cells of the body must learn to seek their support only in the Divine, until the moment when they are able to feel that they are the expression of the Divine.

This is indeed the experience at present. The experience of changing the effect of things, that I have; but it is not mentalised, so I cannot tell it in words. But truly, the cells have begun to feel, first of all that they are wholly ruled by the Divine (this is translated by: "What Thou willest, what Thou willest"), this state, and then a kind of receptivity which is (how to say it?) passive—not immobile, it is... probably one might say a passive receptivity (Mother opens her hands with a smile), but I do not know how to explain.

All words are false, but one might say: "Thou alone art"—yes, the cells feel: "Thou alone art." Yes, it is like that. But all this, it is as though the thing got hardened—words harden the experience. There is a kind of plasticity or suppleness (a

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trustful, very trustful suppleness): "What Thou willest, what Thou willest."

(Silence)

In a certain attitude (but it is difficult to explain or define), in a certain attitude all becomes divine. And there, what is wonderful is that when one has the experience of everything becoming divine, all that is contrary disappears quite naturally, quickly or slowly, instantly or little by little, depending on things.

That is indeed wonderful. That is to say, to become conscious that all is divine is the best way of making all divine—annulling all oppositions.

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30 October 1971

I have as though the feeling that I know the why of creation.

It was to realise the phenomenon of a consciousness which would have at the same time the individual consciousness—the individual consciousness that we naturally have—and the consciousness of the whole, the consciousness (how to say it?)... one might say "global". But the two consciousnesses unite in something... which we have yet to find.

A consciousness at the same time individual and total. And all this labour is for the sake of uniting the two consciousnesses into one consciousness which is that at the same time. And that is the next realisation.

(Silence)

For us it seems to take time (it is translated for us by time), as though it is "being done", as though something is "to be done". But that is the illusion in which we are. Because we have not... crossed over to the other side.

But the individual consciousness is not at all a falsehood; it must be linked with the consciousness of the whole in such a way that it makes another consciousness which for the moment we do not yet possess. Not that it must abolish the other, you understand? There has to be an adjustment, a different aspect, I do not know... in which the two are manifested simultaneously.

For example, at this moment there is a whole series of experiences about the power of creation that is latent in the individual consciousness, that is to say, the capacity for knowing things—knowing, or what we call "willing"—in the individual consciousness before they have come into being. We say "we will that", but it is an intermediary,¹ it is the consciousness which is

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on the way towards something where it is at the same time the vision of what has to be and the capacity to realise it.

That is the next step. Afterwards...

So, for us, that is to say, for the individual consciousness, the thing is translated by time, the time needed for... I do not know how to say it.

I feel it like that: you are not this, you are not yet that, and you must not leave this to become that—the two must become one and form something new.

And that explains everything—everything, everything, everything. And that annuls nothing.

It is a hundred times more wonderful than anything we can imagine.

The question is to know whether that (Mother's body) will be able to follow.... In order to follow, not only must it endure but acquire a new form, a new life. That, I do not know. In any case, it does not matter—the consciousness is clear and the consciousness is not subject to that (Mother points to her body). If that can be made use of, so much the better, otherwise... There are things still to be found.

Yes, things to be found! The old routine is ended. It is ended.

What is to be found is the plasticity of Matter, so that Matter is able to progress always. There you are.

How long will it take? I do not know. How much experience is needed? I do not know. But now the way is clear.

The way is clear.

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17 November 1971

Very strange. The whole view of things has changed.... And then, forgotten.

So totally changed...

But in this change of view, what makes the difference?

(After a long smiling silence) It is as if the consciousness was not in the same position with regard to things—I do not know how to say it. So they appear altogether different.

(Silence)

I do not know how to explain.... The ordinary human consciousness, even when it has the widest ideas, is always at the centre, and things are like this (gesture of convergence from all sides, like a spider's web). Things exist (all that one says only diminishes), they exist in relation to a centre. Whereas (gesture indicating a multitude of scattered points). I believe this is how it is best expressed: in the ordinary human consciousness one is at a point and all things exist in their relation to this point of consciousness (same gesture of a spider's web). And now, the point exists no more, so things exist in themselves.

This is the most exact thing to say. It is not that but...

So, my consciousness is in the things—it is not "something" which is receiving, it is much better than that, but I do not know how to say it.

It is better than that because it is not merely "in the things", it is in "something" which is in the things and which... makes them move.

I could say it in words. I could say: "It is no longer one being among others, it is," I could say, "it is the Divine in all

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things." But it is not like this that I sense it... It is "that which moves things or which is conscious in things".

Evidently it is a question of consciousness, but not a consciousness as human beings have ordinarily. It is the quality of consciousness that has changed.

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18 December 1971

I heard something written by Sri Aurobindo, saying that for the Supramental to manifest upon earth the physical mind must receive it and manifest it—and it is just the physical mind, that is to say, the body-mind, the only thing that remains in me now. And then, the reason why only this part has remained became quite clear to me. It is on the way to being converted in a very rapid and interesting manner. This physical mind is being developed under the supramental Influence. And it is just what Sri Aurobindo has written, that this is indispensable so that the Supramental can manifest itself permanently upon earth.

So, it is going on well... but it is not easy (Mother laughs).

Yes, this is just the problem which I put to myself; because I have seen one thing, that this transformation is not possible unless there is a sort of radical change of position in the consciousness or a change of view.

Yes.

Unless one sees things and beings in another way.

Yes, yes.

But then I ask myself, how is this possible?

It is possible in this way.

But it must be something very radical.

But it is radical, my child! You can't imagine, it is like... I could say truly that I have become another person. There is only this

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(Mother touches the outer form of her body) which remains as it was.... To what extent will it be able to change? Sri Aurobindo has said that if the physical mind were transformed, the transformation of the body would follow quite naturally. We shall see.

But could you give me a key or a lever to bring about this radical change?

Ah! I do not know, because for me everything has simply been taken away from me—the mind has left completely. If you like, in appearance I became stupid, I knew nothing. And it is the physical mind that developed little by little, through successive revelations. For me, I do not know, the work has been done for me—I did nothing. It has been done in a quite radical way.

It could be done because I was very conscious of my psychic (the psychic being which has been formed through all the lives), I was very conscious and it has remained; it has remained and it, precisely, has allowed me to have dealings with men without this making any difference, due to this psychic presence. That is why there has been so little apparent change. So I can say only what I know, and I say this: the psychic must remain there dominating the whole being—the whole bodily being—and guiding the life; then the mental has time to transform itself. My own mind proper has simply been sent away.

Well, the transformation of the body-mind was indispensable because I had only that, nothing more, do you understand?... Very few people would accept that (Mother laughs). As for me, it has been done without asking my opinion. The work was very easy.

That is exactly what has happened.

I would like to have something radical...

(Mother laughs) But would you accept what has happened to

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me, that is to say, the individual, the person, feeling absolutely imbecile?

I am ready.

Would that not make you despair?

No, no—no.

Well, it is a thing that settles itself, so to say, in a permanent way: the nothingness of the person, its absolute nothingness, incapacity. And then you are... you are at ease, you are quite naturally like a child; you say to the Divine: "Do everything for me" (there is nothing else to do, there is nothing else one can do!), then everything becomes all right immediately—immediately.

Well, the body has given itself entirely, it had even said to the Divine: "I pray to you to make me will for my dissolution if I am to die", so that even there I do not resist if it is necessary for the body to die—even to will for my dissolution. That is its attitude, it was like that (gesture with open hands). And instead of that there came a sort of... (I could translate it by words, but they were not words): "If you accept suffering and ailments, transformation is better than dissolution." And so when there is ailment, it accepts.

It is not that, what I say is... it is not really that, but it is something difficult to explain. It is really a new attitude and a new sensation. I am not able to say it.

And evidently, for each one it must be different.... For me it has been very radical—I had no choice, you understand: it was like that, it is like that. There you are.

But one must really... What has made the thing easy is that the psychic consciousness was wholly in front and governed the life. So it continued quietly without being disturbed.

Likewise for seeing and hearing, I came to know that it was not a physical decline, it was simply this: I understand and hear

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people only when they think clearly what they say. And I see only that which is... which expresses the inner life, otherwise it is... hazy or veiled; and it is not that the eyes do not see, it is "something", it is some other thing—everything is new.

(Silence)

It is true, the body must have much goodwill—mine happens to have goodwill. And it is not a mental goodwill, it is truly a bodily goodwill. It accepts all inconveniences.... But it is the attitude that is important, not the consequences (I am sure that the inconveniences are not indispensable); it is the attitude that is important. Well, it must be like this (gesture of open hands). In fact I have found that in the majority of cases surrender to the Divine does not necessarily mean trust in the Divine—because you surrender to the Divine, you say, "Even if you make me suffer, I surrender myself", but it is an absolute lack of trust! Yes, it is really amusing, surrender does not imply trust; trust is something else, it is... a kind of knowledge—an "unshakable" knowledge which nothing can disturb—that it is we who change into difficulties, sufferings and miseries what, in the Divine Consciousness, is... perfect Peace. It is we who bring about this little transformation.

And extraordinary examples have come... hours would be needed to explain.

Indeed it is the consciousness that must change, even the consciousness of the cells, you understand?... That is a radical change.

And we have no words to express that, because that does not exist upon earth—it was latent but it was not manifested. All words are... beside the mark; it is not quite that.

(Silence)

If you like, one could say that at every minute one has the feeling

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that one may live or one may die (gesture of a slight tilt to one side or the other) or one may live eternally. At every minute it is like that. And the difference (between the two sides) is so imperceptible that one cannot say: do this and you will be on this side, do that and you will be on the other side. This is not possible. It is a way of being that is almost indescribable.¹

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22 December 1971

A letter of Sri Aurobindo was read to me in which he said that for the Supramental to be fixed here (he had seen that the Supramental came into him and then it withdrew, and then it came back again and again withdrew—it was not stable); for it to become stable it must enter and settle itself in the physical mind.¹ It is this work which is being done in me for months now: the mind has been withdrawn and the physical mind has taken its place, and precisely, for some time, I have noticed that it was... (I was telling you that it was seeing everything in a different way, that its relation with things was different), I have noticed that this physical mind, the mind that is in the body, became wide, it had a global view of things, and its entire way of seeing was absolutely different. I have seen, it is this: the Supramental is at work there. I am passing through extraordinary hours.

What is happening is that it is only things that resist—one feels (I have already told you) that it is as though at every moment (and it is becoming stronger and stronger), at every moment: Do you want life, do you want death; do you want life, do you want death?... And it is like that. And then, life, it is union with the Supreme, and the consciousness, an altogether new consciousness comes. And it is this way, it is that way

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(Mother makes a gesture of tilting from one side to the other). But yesterday or the day before, I do not know, all of a sudden the body said: No! It is finished—I want life, I want nothing else. And since then, things are getting better.

Oh! Volumes would be needed to narrate what is happening.... It is... extraordinarily interesting and altogether new. New altogether.

(Mother goes deep within.)

Because of physical death, the subconscient is a defeatist. Well, the subconscient has the feeling that whatever be the progress, whatever the effort, it will always end by that, because till today it has always ended that way. So the work that is being done is to try to introduce faith, the certitude of transformation, into the subconscient. And that... it is a struggle of every moment.

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25 December 1971

It is the festival of the Light—Noël is the festival of the returning Light.... It is very much older than Christianity.

And next Saturday is the first of January.

I hope 1972 is going to be better!

(Mother shakes her head) I am more and more convinced that we receive things and react in a way that creates difficulties—I am more and more convinced of it. Because I have experiences hardly agreeable, physically, materially, and then everything changes according to whether one pays attention to it or not, according to an attitude like this (gesture turned to oneself) in which one looks at oneself living, or else an attitude in which one is (gesture of wideness) in all things, in movement, in life, and an attitude in which one gives importance only to the Divine; if one is able to be like this all the time, there is no difficulty—and things remain the same. This is the experience: the thing in itself is of a certain kind, and it is our reaction with respect to the thing which differs. The experience is more and more conclusive. There are three categories: our attitude towards things, the things in themselves (these two always bring difficulties), and there is a third category in which everything, everything exists in relation to the Divine, in the Consciousness of the Divine—everything goes on wonderfully! Easy! And I speak of material things, of the material physical life (morally speaking it has long been known to be like that), but things material, that is to say, the small inconveniences of the body, its reactions, having pain or not, circumstances going bad, not being able to swallow—things most trivial to which no attention is paid when one is young and strong and healthy; no attention is paid and for everybody it is so; but when one lives in the consciousness of

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his body and of what happens to it, the way it receives, what comes and all that—oh! it is misery. When one lives in the consciousness of others, of what they want, what they need, their relation with you—it is misery! But if you live in the Divine Presence and if the Divine does all, sees all, is all... it is Peace—it is Peace—time has no more duration, everything is easy and... it is not that one feels a joy nor that one feels... it is not that, it is the Divine who is there. And that is the only solution. And it is towards that that the world is moving: towards the Consciousness of the Divine—the Divine who does, the Divine who is, the Divine... And then identically the same circumstances (I do not speak of different circumstances), identically the same circumstances (this is my experience of these days, so concrete!)—the day before yesterday I was quite unwell, and yesterday the circumstances were the same, my body was in the same state, everything the same and... all was peaceful.

Of this I am absolutely convinced.

This explains everything. This explains everything, everything, everything.

The world is the same—it is seen and felt in an absolutely opposite way.

Everything is a phenomenon of consciousness—everything. Only, not this consciousness, neither this one nor that one; it is not that. It is our way, the human way of being conscious, or the divine way of being conscious. There you are. The whole matter is there. And I am absolutely convinced.

(Silence)

After all, the world is as it should be at every instant.

Yes.

It is we who see it wrongly or feel it wrongly or receive it wrongly.

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It is like death. Well, it is a transitional phenomenon and it appears to us that it has been always so—for us it has been always so because our consciousness is like that (Mother cuts a small square in the air)—but when you have this Divine Consciousness, oh!... things become almost instantaneous, you understand. I cannot explain.

There is a movement, there is a progression, there is what is translated for us by time; that exists, it is something... it is something in the consciousness.... It is difficult to say... it is like a picture and its projection. It is something like that. All things are, and for us it is as though we see them projected on the screen, they come one after another. It is somewhat like that.

Yes, Sri Aurobindo said that in the supramental consciousness the past, the present and the future existed side by side, as though on a single map of consciousness.¹

Yes, it is so. It is so. But for me, it is an experience. It is not a thing that I "think" (I do not think), it is an experience. And it is difficult to explain.

And the effect the thing produces in us, the sensation it brings to us depends exclusively on the attitude of our consciousness. And then, the consciousness of being in oneself or in everything: to be in everything is already a little better than to be oneself egoistically, but it has advantages, it has inconveniences, and it is not the Truth; the Truth is... the Divine as the totality—the totality in time and in space. And that is a consciousness which the body can have, for this body had it (momentarily, for

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moments), and so long as it has it, everything is so much... well, it is not delight, it is not pleasure, it is not happiness, it is nothing of the kind... a kind of blissful peace... and luminous... and creative.... It is magnificent. Only, it comes, it goes, it comes, it goes.... And when you come out of it, you have the feeling of dropping into a horrible hole—our ordinary consciousness (I mean the ordinary human consciousness) is a horrible hole. But you know also why it was momentarily so; that is to say, it is necessary in order to pass from the one to the other—all that happens is necessary for the full unfoldment of the goal of the creation. One might say: the goal of the creation is that the creature must become conscious like the Creator. There! It is a phrase, but it is in that direction. The goal of this creation is this Consciousness of the Infinite, the Eternal who is Omnipotent—Infinite, Eternal, Omnipotent (called God by our religions: for us, in relation to life, it is the Divine)—Infinite and Eternal, Omnipotent... beyond time; each individual particle possessing this Consciousness, each individual particle containing this same Consciousness.

It is division that has created the world and it is in division that the Eternal manifests itself.

Our language is... (or our consciousness) inadequate. Later on I shall be able to say.

Something is happening—there you are (Mother laughs).

Bon Noёl, my child—the festival of the Light.

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9 February 1972

This talk begins with Mother's comments on the message to be distributed on the Darshan of 21 February 1972.

"The complete unification of the whole being around the psychic centre is the essential condition to realise a perfect sincerity."

I have observed that people were insincere simply because one part of the being says one thing and another part says another thing. It is that which constitutes insincerity.

But it is very difficult to have a state of consciousness that is permanent, to have always the same consciousness ruling all the time.

But that is true so long as one is not unified, my child. As for me it has always been the same thing (Mother makes a gesture of a straight line) for years and years. It comes from there, it is the psychic consciousness, and it is CONSTANT.

I have had recently for some moments the experience of un-unified consciousness, but it has not been like that for years and years, at least for thirty years.¹ Directly the psychic being became the master, began ruling the being, it was finished—finished, and it has been like that (same gesture of a straight line). This indeed is a sure sign, always like that, always the same. And it is always the same thing: "What Thou willest, what Thou willest." And this "Thou" is not something that is up there in some far-off region and whom one does not know: He is everywhere, He is in everything, He is there constantly, He

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is within the being—and you cling to Him in that way; this the only solution.

This is a recent discovery of mine. It is the discovery why people are insincere (even when they try to be sincere)—because it is now one part, now another part and now a third part that is so; that part is then quite sincere in its demands, but it is not in consonance with the rest.

Yes, this means that the psychic consciousness enters into the physical consciousness.

Yes.

Because, there alone things are permanent.

Yes...

The psychic consciousness must enter into the ordinary physical consciousness.

Yes.

That is the difficult thing.

But, my child, that happened to me, as I told you, at least thirty years ago.

The psychic consciousness was always there ruling the being and guiding it. And all impressions, everything was placed before it in this way (gesture as though in front of a searchlight) so that it might give the right direction. And the physical also was all the time as though listening always to the command from the Divine. But the thing was constant, constant—before I came here. I came here in that state—it was long ago. And the thing has not flickered. It is only recently that I had this experience²

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one night for some hours, two to three hours—well, it was horrible, it appeared to me hellish. It was to make me know, to make me understand the condition of others. And then, when the psychic is no longer there...

The body is like this, always listening, listening, always listening (gesture upward or inward)—listening. But the thing is not expressed in words,—the Divine's command,—it expresses itself just like a will asserting itself (gesture of an unshakable descent).

Need I add anything to make it precise?

You said, "complete unification of the whole being".

That means the physical also.

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26 February 1972

This talk begins with Mother's comments on the message to be distributed on February 29, the Golden Day, anniversary of the descent of the Supramental Manifestation upon earth in 1956.

"It is only when the Supramental manifests in the body-mind that its presence can be permanent."

This message is a saying of Sri Aurobindo's—they have made out as though it was my saying. It was Sri Aurobindo who wrote it, I simply said: Sri Aurobindo has said "permanently".

But, Mother, it is your experience, therefore... (Mother laughs).

(Silence)

But it would be wiser to speak of it when it has been done! When it has been installed, then... For the moment... (gesture of swinging from one side to another).

This discipline of the physical mind is... I do not know by which end to catch it. I find it very difficult.

Very difficult. It is very difficult.

You must begin by obtaining the silence at will. To obtain the silence at any moment. I believe that is the starting-point.

Yes, but to get the silence at will is not difficult, you concentrate for a second and it truly falls silent. And as long as you are concentrated, it is perfectly silent.

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But the moment you relax your concentration, finished. (Mother laughs) That moves, moves this way, moves that way.

The mind now has lost the habit of running about. That habit it must lose.

How to do it?

I do not know, because for me it was spontaneous. Only when someone speaks to me or when something comes to shake me out of it... otherwise, left to itself, quite naturally it is like that (gesture of immobility, turned upward).... Perhaps that is the way (same gesture): contemplating the Divine in this manner.

(A smiling silence)

It is that, the natural state (same gesture). Strangely enough it is even translated by... a sensation in the body, the sensation of being wholly enveloped, just as if a baby were swathed. Yes, truly it is like that, being enveloped by the Divine (gesture).

(Silence)

It is now two or three days, I do not remember exactly, there was a great difficulty and then immediately I felt myself enveloped (gesture) like a baby being carried in the arms of the Divine. You understand, it was like that. It was as though I was a baby being carried in the arms of the Divine. And then... after a time (but it was rather long) when it had been solely in the Divine Presence like that, the pain disappeared. It did not even ask for the pain to go, it left. It took a little time, it left.

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I had completely, completely the feeling of being a baby enveloped (gesture) in the arms of the Divine. Extraordinary.

(Silence)

Well, for a time it is like that: "What Thou willest, what Thou willest" and then that too falls silent... (Mother opens her hands upward in a gesture of offering).

(Silence)

It is the type of concentration that must change.

Yes.

Because when you follow this discipline of the physical mind and when it thus escapes you to the right and to the left, you always resume the concentration mentally and mentally re-establish silence. So each time it is through the mind that you practise the discipline...

Ah!

... but the mind, the very moment you relax it... There must be a descent of something, something must take possession.

Indeed, it is the feeling of a baby's powerlessness, you understand? But it is not a thing "thought out", "willed", it is absolutely spontaneous, and then from there you pass into a state... (Mother opens her hands in a smile of beatitude).

So long as there is this feeling of someone who wills, who does a thing and all that, it is useless... (same gesture, hands open in a smile).

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(Mother goes into contemplation.)

The Lord is looking after us?

(Laughing) I believe, yes! (Mother takes hold of the disciple's hands.) Do you not feel Him?

Yes, Mother.

Ah!...

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8 March 1972

About an "accident".

It is like that. It is like an imperative command: Go straight, else all will go wrong.

It is becoming terrible, terrible. It is like a Pressure—a frightful Pressure—to bring about the desired progress. I feel it in myself for my body. But my body is not afraid, it says (Mother opens her hands): "Very well, if I am to end, it is the end." Every minute it is like that: the true thing (Mother brings down her fist) or the end.

That is what seems to have come down—you know I said that something had come down (it is written somewhere) and we shall know one day, we shall know very soon what it is. You have read it, haven't you?¹

Yes, it was on February 21.

But it is that, it is a kind of... no half-measure, no compromise, no approximation, no... not that. It is this (Mother brings down her fist).

And it is so for the body, at every minute there is an imperative: it is life or it is death. It is not the approximation which has lasted indefinitely. For centuries it was neither altogether bad, nor altogether good—it is no longer so.

The body knows that this is the way for the supramental body to be formed: it must be wholly under the influence of the

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Divine—no compromise, no approximation, no "it will come", not so: it is like this (Mother brings down her fist), a formidable Will.

But... it is the only way for things to go fast.

(Long silence)

But when one begins to understand practically the necessity of the transformation, when the thing starts truly to be understood and when one tries to do something, one finds that when the material substance receives a blow, then it remembers, and for a day or two it aspires, it seeks, and then it relaxes.

Yes, yes.

There is as though an incapacity for tension.

It is not incapacity.

What is it then?

Bad will. Egoism—what we call egoism—the egoism of Matter...

The egoism of Matter.

... that does not want to submit.

That I know. I am catching my body all the while, here, there, here, there. It wants to go about it in its very ordinary dawdling way.

It is a kind of relaxation of the aspiration and tension.

Yes, it is that.

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Then, what is to be done? Every time one must catch it, or what else?

Yes. But it can never be stable unless it is linked truly to the Divine. If you are like this (gesture, the two fists hooked as though up above on a rope), then automatically when the moment becomes quite critical, it goes over to the right side, yes, it goes over to the right side. It is as though all the while you had the feeling that you were hovering between life and death, and the moment you take the right attitude—when the part concerned takes the right attitude—it goes all right. Quite naturally and easily it goes all right. It is wonderful. But it is a tremendous thing, because there is a perpetual danger. Well, perhaps, I do not know, a hundred times during the day there is a feeling: life or (for the cells, I mean), life or disintegration; and then if they do not contract, as they usually have the habit to do, everything goes all right. But they are learning to... (Mother opens her hands in a gesture of self-giving), then it is all right.

It is as though by a kind of compulsion the body was being taught eternity. It is truly interesting. And then I see that the external circumstances are becoming frightful (from the ordinary point of view).

(Mother enters into contemplation.)

Have you anything to say?

No, it was that, the difficulty that I was meeting.

Yes.

I find it very difficult. You try once, twice, ten times to regain yourself, but you have the feeling that this is not the thing to be done, it is some other thing, and that... if

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there were really no higher power which did the thing for you, nothing at all could be done by you.

Yes, it is that. But then, there are experiences, hundreds of them, that the very minute you take the right attitude, the thing is done.

It is we who prevent the thing from being done... as though our own control prevented the Force from acting; it is something like that. One must... (Mother opens her hands).

(Silence)

I believe, I believe that it is the subconscient which has been convinced that if it does not maintain its control all will go wrong. That is my impression. It is that thing, it is that which says, "Ah, be on your guard, take care."...

(Mother opens her hands.)

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24 March 1972

For the first time, early in the morning, I saw myself, my body—I do not know whether it is the supramental body or... (how to say it?) a body in transition, but I had a body altogether new, in the sense that it was sexless—it was not a woman nor was it a man.

It was very white. But it is because my skin is white, I believe, I do not know.

It was very slim (gesture indicating slenderness)—it was pretty. Truly a harmonious form.

So it was the first time. I did not know at all, I had no idea of what it would be like, none at all, and I saw—I was like that, I had become like that.

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25 March 1972

The other day you spoke of the vision of your body, this body in transition...

Yes, but I was like that. It was myself. I did not see myself in a mirror: I saw myself like that (Mother bends her head to look at her body). I was... I was like that.

It was for the first time. It was at four o'clock in the morning, I believe. It was quite natural—I did not look in a mirror, I was quite natural. I remember only what I saw (gesture from the chest to the waist). I had only a veil on me, so I saw only... it was the trunk that was quite different from the chest down to the waist: neither man nor woman.

And it was pretty. I had a form very very slim, very slender—very slender but not thin. And the skin was very white; the skin was like my skin. A very pretty form. But no sex, you could not say—neither man nor woman; sex had disappeared.

Also there (Mother points to the chest), all that: nothing. I do not know how to say it. It was like a semblance, but had no form at all (Mother touches her chest), not even as much as men have. A very white skin, all very even. No belly, so to say. The stomach—no stomach. All that was slim.

Well, I did not pay any special attention because I was like that and I found it quite natural. It was the first time and it was in the night, the day before yesterday. And last night I saw nothing—that was the first and only time till now.

But it was so in the subtle physical?

It must have been so in the subtle physical.

But how will that pass into the physical?

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There! I do not know... I do not know. I do not know.

Also, it was clear that there should not be any complicated process of digestion nor of elimination as now. It was not like that.

But how?... Evidently the food is already very different and becoming more and more different (as for example glucose, things that do not need a complicated digestion). But how is the body itself going to change? I do not know. I do not know.

I did not look to see how it was, because it was quite natural, so I cannot give a detailed description. Simply, it was neither the body of a woman nor the body of a man—that is clear. And the "outline", the silhouette, was almost the same as that of a very very young person. There was a sort of semblance to human forms (Mother sketches it in the air), there was a shoulder and a figure. As though the semblance of a form.

I see it, but... I saw it as one sees oneself. And there was a kind of veil that I had put on just to cover myself. It was a mode of being, not surprising to me, it was a natural mode of being.

It must be like that in the subtle physical.

No, what seems mysterious is the transit from one to the other.

Yes, how?

But it is the same mystery as the passage from the chimpanzee to a man.

Oh no! It is much more tremendous than that, Mother, much more tremendous because, after all, between a chimpanzee and a man there is not much difference.

But there was not much difference in appearance here (Mother sketches a silhouette in the air): there were the shoulders, the arms, a body, a figure like that, legs. All that was the same, only it was...

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Yes, but I mean to say that the bodily function of a chimpanzee and that of a man are similar.

They are similar.

Well, yes, they digest, breathe, they... Whereas here...

No, there must have been respiration—on the contrary, the shoulders were broad (gesture). That is important. Only the chest was neither feminine nor masculine, but just a semblance. And then all that—stomach, belly, etc.—they were just an outline, a very slim and harmonious form, but it certainly had not the use to which we put our body.

The two things very very different: first, procreation, of which there was no possibility there; secondly, the food. But it is quite clear that the food now is not that of chimpanzees nor that of the first men. It is very different. And now the question is to find a food which needs no complicated digestion.... Here it seems to me that the food should not be positively liquid, but not solid either. And then there is the question of the mouth—I do not know. The teeth? Evidently there is no more need of chewing and so the teeth have no more... But there must be something in their place.... That I do not know at all, at all, how the face was, but it did not seem to have a very different look from what it is now.

Evidently, what will change very much, which had become very important, was breathing. It is upon this that this being greatly depended.

Yes, probably it absorbs the energies directly.

Yes. But probably there will be intermediary beings that will not last very long, like the intermediary beings that were between the chimpanzee and man.

But I do not know, something must happen that has not happened till now.

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Yes.

(Silence)

Sometimes I have a sort of feeling that the time of realisation is near.

Yes, but how?

Yes, how, one does not know.

Is that (Mother points to her body), is that going to change? It must change or it has to follow the old ordinary process of undoing itself and remaking itself.... I do not know.... Evidently life can be much prolonged, there are examples but... I do not know.

I do not know.

Many a time I have had the feeling that, rather than a transformation, it will be a concretisation of the other body.

Ah!... But how?

That also, the transition, one does not know. But instead of this one becoming the other, it is rather the other that will take the place of this one.

Yes, but how?

Yes, how, I do not know.

(After a silence) Yes, the person that I was the night before yesterday, evidently if it materialised itself... But how?

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(Mother goes into contemplation.)

One knows nothing!

Strange how one knows nothing.

(Silence)

Mother, in a poem, "Transformation", Sri Aurobindo begins in this way:

"My breath runs in a subtle rhythmic stream;
It fills my members with a might divine..."

The breath, yes, that, that is important.

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2 April 1972

Extracts from a conversation with some disciples. Mother spoke the first four paragraphs in English.

For centuries and centuries humanity has waited for this time. It is come. But it is difficult.

I don't simply tell you we are here upon earth to rest and enjoy ourselves, now is not the time for that. We are here... to prepare the way for the new creation.

The body has some difficulty, so I can't be active, alas. It is not because I am old, I am not old. I am not old, I am younger than most of you. If I am here inactive, it is because the body has given itself definitely to prepare the transformation. But the consciousness is clear and we are here to work—rest and enjoyment will come afterwards. Let us do our work here.

So I have called you to tell you that. Take what you can, do what you can, my help will be with you. All sincere effort will be helped to the maximum.

It is the hour to be heroic.

Heroism is not what it is said to be: it is to become wholly unified—and the Divine help will always be with those who have resolved to be heroic in full sincerity. There!

You are here at this moment, that is to say upon earth, because you chose it at one time—you do not remember it any more, but I know it—that is why you are here. Well, you must rise to the height of the task. You must strive, you must conquer all weaknesses and limitations; above all you must tell your ego: "Your hour is gone." We want a race that has no ego, that has in place of the ego the Divine Consciousness. It is that which we want: the Divine Consciousness which will allow the race to develop itself and the supramental being to take birth.

If you believe that I am here because I am bound—it is not

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true. I am not bound, I am here because my body has been given for the first attempt at transformation. Sri Aurobindo told me so. Well, I am doing it. I do not wish anyone to do it for me because... because it is not very pleasant, but I do it willingly because of the results; everybody will be able to benefit from it. I ask only one thing: do not listen to the ego.

If there is in your hearts a sincere Yes, you will satisfy me completely. I do not need words, I need the sincere adhesion of your hearts. That's all.

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12 April 1972

Mother hands the disciple a card on which is printed her photo and the following text:

"No human will can finally prevail against the Divine's will.

"Let us put ourselves deliberately and exclusively on the side of the Divine and the victory is ultimately certain."

The Mother

It is strange how human nature resists that. Ordinary human nature is such that it prefers defeat through its own will to victory gained otherwise. I am discovering things... incredible—incredible.

The depth of human stupidity is incredible. Incredible.

It is as though this Force of which I have spoken¹ was going down like that (gesture of an imperturbable descent), deeper and deeper, towards the subconscient.

In the subconscient, there are things... incredible—incredible. I am passing night after night seeing that. And the Force goes down and down, imperatively.

And then the human subconscient cries out, "Oh! Not yet, not yet—not so soon!" And it is against that that one must struggle. It is the general subconscient.

And naturally, the resistance brings about catastrophes, but then one says, "Just see, see how beneficial is your action! It brings catastrophes." Incredible, incredible stupidity.

One must remain... remain clinging to the Divine.

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Don't you see? Has it not good reasons for itself? It says, "Just see, just see where it leads, you see."... Oh! it is... it is not merely resistance, it is perverse.

Yes.

It is a perversity.

Yes, yes, Mother, I see it very clearly. I see very clearly that it is really a perversity.

It is a perversity.

But one has the feeling that there is something which obeys nothing.

No, there is only to... If one were able not to listen, it would be better; but if you listen, you have only to answer, "I don't care, I don't care"—all the while. "You will become a fool"—"I don't care." "You will spoil all your work"—"I don't care."... To all these perverse arguments you answer: "I don't care."

If you can have the experience that it is the Divine who is doing everything, then with an unshakable faith you say, "All your arguments have no value; the delight of being with the Divine, conscious of the Divine, surpasses everything—surpasses the creation, surpasses life, surpasses happiness, surpasses success, surpasses everything." (Mother raises a finger) That!

Then everything is all right, there is an end of the thing.

It is as though That was pushing into the light, was forcing into the light, into contact with this Force all the worst that there is in the nature... so that it may be ended.

And then That clings to what in us was of goodwill.

A moment does come when it is absolutely wonderful, but you pass through hours that are not pleasant.

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Yes, yes, there are moments when one asks oneself if everything is not going to be swept away.

(Mother laughs) That is absurd, absurd! It is the resistance that will be wholly swept away.

But...

(Mother goes within.)

I have more and more the feeling that there is only one way.... (Mother laughs) It makes an amusing picture: sit upon the mind. Sit upon the mind: "Keep quiet." That is the only way.

You sit upon the mind (Mother gives a little tap): "Keep quiet."

(Silence)

In the subconscient there is the memory of bygone pralayas, so it is this memory that always gives the feeling that everything will be dissolved, everything will collapse.

But if one looks with the true light, it can only be one manifestation that will dissolve and there will be a more beautiful manifestation. Théon had told me that this was the seventh and the last. I told Sri Aurobindo what Théon had said and Sri Aurobindo agreed, because he said: This one will see the transformation towards the Supramental. But for that, for the Supramental, the mind must fall silent: and that gives me always the feeling (Mother laughs) that a child is sitting on the head of the mind and playing (gesture, of a child beating with his legs) on the head of the mind!... If I could still draw a picture, it would be truly amusing. The mind—this fat earthly mind (Mother puffs out her cheeks) which considers itself so important and indispensable, and then the child sitting on its head and playing! It is very amusing.

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Ah, my child, we have no faith. As soon as one has faith... We say, "We want the divine life"—yet we are afraid of it! But as soon as fear goes away and we are sincere... everything changes truly.

We say, "We do not want any more this life", and (Mother laughs) something is there that clings to it!

It is so ridiculous.

We cling to our old ideas, our old... to this old world which must disappear—and we are afraid!

And the Divine child seated on the head of the mind and playing!... I wish I could draw this picture, it is wonderful.

We are so stupid that we even come to say (Mother assumes a tone of offended dignity): "The Divine is wrong, he should not do like that." It is comical, my child.

(Silence)

For me, the best remedy (that is to say, the easiest) is: "What Thou willest. What Thou willest", in all sincerity. And then—then comes understanding. Then you understand. But you do not understand mentally, it is not there (Mother touches her head).

"What Thou willest."

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6 May 1972

Mother "looks inwardly".

Do you see something?

(Silence)

I believe I already told you that there is as though a golden Force which is pressing down (gesture of pressing) that has no material consistence and yet seems to be tremendously heavy...

Yes, yes.

... and which is pressing upon Matter, thus, to compel it to turn towards the Divine inwardly—not an outward escape (gesture upward), but inwardly to turn to the Divine. And so the apparent result is as though catastrophes were inevitable. And yet along with this perception of inevitable catastrophe, there are at the same time solutions to the situation, events which come about that are by themselves altogether miraculous. It is as though the two extremes were becoming more extreme, as though what is good was becoming better and what is bad becoming worse. It is like that. With the formidable Power that is pressing upon the world—that was my impression.

Yes, it is perceptible.

Yes, it is felt like that (Mother fingers the air). And then in the circumstances, many things that happen generally in an indifferent way become acute; situations, differences become acute; bad wills become acute; and, at the same time, extraordinary miracles—extraordinary! People are saved who were about to die, things that were inextricable all of a sudden get sorted out.

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And then, for individuals also, it is the same thing.

They who know how to turn towards... (how to say it?) who sincerely call the Divine, who feel that it is the only salvation, the only way out, and who sincerely give themselves, then (gesture of breaking through) in a few minutes it becomes wonderful. For the smallest things—there is nothing small or big, important or unimportant—it is all the same.

The values change.

It is as though the vision of the world changes.

(Silence)

It is, as it were, to give an idea of the change in the world by the descent of the Supramental. Truly things that were neutral become absolute: a little error becomes categorical in its consequences, and a little sincerity, a little true aspiration becomes miraculous in its result. The values have intensified in people, and even from the material point of view the smallest fault, the very smallest, has big consequences, and the least sincerity in the aspiration has wonderful results. The values have intensified, become precise.

Mother, you speak of fault, error—I do not know if it is an aberration, but I am having a more and more precise impression that fault, error, all that is not true. It is not like that. It is a means... how to say? Yes, it is a means for widening the field of aspiration.

Yes, yes, perfectly so.

The perception of the whole is that everything is... everything is willed with a view to the conscious ascent of the world. The consciousness is preparing to become divine. And it is perfectly true:

what we consider as faults are altogether part of the ordinary human conception, altogether, altogether.

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The only fault—if there is any—is not to want the other thing. But from the time one wants the other thing...

But it is not a fault, it is an imbecility!

Well, it is very simple. The whole creation must want nothing but the Divine, nothing but to manifest the Divine. And all that it does, even all its so-called errors, are only means towards making it inevitable for the whole creation to manifest the Divine—but not the "Divine" as man conceives him to be, "this and not that", with all kinds of restrictions: a Totality of tremendous power and light. It is truly the Power in the world, a new and tremendous Power that has come into the world and must manifest itself and must make "manifestable" (if one may so put it) this Divine All-Power.

I have come to this conclusion. I have looked, I have observed and I have seen that what we call "supramental", lacking a better word, this Supramental makes the creation more sensitive to the higher Power; we call that "divine" because we... It is divine in relation to what we are, but... It is something (gesture of descent and pressure) which must make Matter more sensitive and more... "responsive" to the Force. How to say it? At present whatever is invisible or insensible is unreal for us (I mean to say for the human being in general). We say that there are "concrete" things and things that are not so; yet this Puissance, this Power that is not material, becomes more concretely powerful upon earth than earthly material things. Yes, it is that.

This is the protection and the means of defence for supramental beings. It will be a thing which is not material in appearance but which has a greater power over Matter than material things. This is becoming more and more true from day to day, from hour to hour—the feeling that this Force, when it is directed by what we call "the Divine", it can, truly it can—you understand—it has the power to move Matter, it can produce a material accident; and it can efface the consequences of an absolutely material thing—it is stronger than... Matter. This

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is what is altogether new and incomprehensible; and therefore it produces a kind of panic in the ordinary consciousness of people. Yes, it is that. It seems... it is no more what it was. And truly there is something new—it is no more as it was.

All our common sense, all our logic, all our practical sense is dashed to the ground! Useless! It has no force any more, no reality any more; it no longer corresponds to what is. It is truly a new world.

(Silence)

It is this in the body which finds it difficult to adapt itself to this new Power and creates the disorder and difficulties, the illnesses. But all of a sudden one feels that if one were wholly receptive, one would become formidable. That is the impression—the impression I am having more and more, that if the whole consciousness (the whole of the most material consciousness—the most material) were receptive to this new Power... one would become for-mi-da-ble.

(Mother closes her eyes.)

But one essential condition: the reign of the ego must be ended. The ego is now the obstacle. The ego must be replaced by the divine consciousness—Sri Aurobindo himself called it "supramental"; we can call it supramental so that there might not be any misunderstanding, because when one speaks of "the Divine", immediately people think of a "God", and that spoils everything. It is not that. No, it is not that. (Mother slowly brings down her closed fists) It is the descent of the supramental world, which is not a purely imaginative thing (gesture upward), it is an absolutely material Power. But (Mother smiles) it has no need of material means.

A world which wants to take a body in the world.

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(Silence)

Several times there have been moments when my body felt a kind of new unease and anxiety; and there was as though something which was not a voice, but which translated itself in words in my consciousness: "Why are you afraid? It is the new consciousness." It came several times. And then I understood.

(Silence)

You understand; it is this which in the human common sense says: "It is impossible, that has never been"; it is this which has come to an end. It is finished, it is foolish. It has become a stupidity. One might say: it is possible because it has never been. It is the new world and it is the new consciousness and it is the new Power, it is possible, and this is and will be more and more manifested because it is the new world, because it has never been.

It will be because it has never been.

(Silence)

It is beautiful: it will be because it has never been—because it has never been.

(Mother enters into a long contemplation.)

It is not material and it is more concrete than Matter!

Yes. It is crushing almost.

Crushing, yes, it is that.... Oh! It is...

All that is not receptive feels the crushing, but whatever is receptive feels on the contrary something like a... powerful widening.

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Yes, but it is very strange, it is both!

Both at the same time.

Yes, one feels something like a swelling, as though the whole thing is going to explode, and at the same time there is something that is crushed.

Yes, but that which is crushed is the thing that resists, that is not receptive. It has only to open itself. And then the thing becomes as though... a formidable thing.... It is extraordinary. It is our habit of centuries, is it not, which resists and gives this impression; but whatever opens out... one feels as though one became large, large, large.... It is magnificent. Oh! It is...

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30 August 1972

I see clearly: it is the consciousness which is directing and not the thought. So, if the consciousness is quietly open to the Divine, everything is all right. All the while things are happening in the consciousness as if all that was coming from the whole world (gesture of assault from all sides): all that denies or contradicts the divine Action—that is coming thus all the time (same gesture). And so, if I know how to be quiet (gesture of self-offering, hands open upward), in an attitude of... (Mother smiles) of non-existence, a kind of... I do not know if it is transparency... I do not know if it should be called transparency or immobility; in any case it is something in the consciousness that is like this (same gesture of self-offering, hands open); when the consciousness is like that everything goes well, but as soon as it starts moving, that is to say, the person shows itself in any way, it becomes detestable. But it is very strong.

You know, there are a thousand experiences of the physical body which say: "Ooh! This beatific state is an impossibility"—it is this stupidity which delays everything. It is as though it were the cells—the cells of the body—that are accustomed to fight and suffer and are unable to accept that things could be like that (same gesture of self-giving, hands opened). But when it is like that... it is wonderful.

Only, it does not last. It does not last all the time—all the time, all the time things are happening (same gesture of universal assault). But now I see very well, very clearly—very clearly: consciousness is replacing thought.

And... (how to say it?) the difference: thought is something which goes this way (gesture of whirling), it moves, it moves... consciousness is something that is like this (gesture of hands opened, offered upward). I cannot explain.

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(Mother closes her eyes and remains with the hands open.)

Do you have anything to say or ask?

I was asking myself what I could do to hasten the movement. In the daily life we are so much assailed by so many things, are we not?... What can one do to hasten the movement?

If one could remain without being troubled, that would make a great difference.

Yes.

A great difference.

You understand? My body is beginning—just beginning—to know that the divine side means a life (Mother stretches out her arms into an immensity), a life progressive and luminous; but the accumulation of past experiences says: "Oh! It is not possible!" There you are, and so it is this idiotic "not possible" which delays and spoils things.

This is based upon the fact that as soon as the body gives up the true attitude, it becomes painful, everything hurts, everything is suffering—the impression is there as of death, of dissolution everywhere. Therefore it is that which strengthens... the imbecility of Matter.

So, to tell the truth, I would rather not speak unless it is to answer a precise question.

As for me I ask myself on what point precisely should I apply myself?

(After a silence) Do you feel that you have passed beyond thought?

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Ah, yes, that altogether. The only thing that remains in me is a mechanical thought-movement, but otherwise... I can say that I never make use of my thought. I have always the feeling that I am drawing from above. The speculative mind, for example, is impossible for me.

Yes, then it is all right, you are on the right path.

Well, yes! But practically there is the feeling of a struggle, of being somewhat submerged.

Well, for me, all the things on which I used to rely for action have as though crumbled down purposely so that I may say (for everything, even the most trifling things): "What Thou willest." It has become... it has become my only refuge.

To an ordinary observer who does not know, one has to agree to pass for a blockhead.

But there are quite a few who see the Light also, you know.

Possibly. (Mother laughs.) So much the better for them.

(Silence)

Very often, very often, I ask the Lord, "How can I help, now that I can no more see clearly nor speak clearly?" It is a state.... And the body does not feel the decline! It is convinced that if tomorrow the Lord wanted it to take up again its activities, it would be able to do so. The strength is there (Mother touches her arms, her muscles), at times a mighty strength!... Why!... The condition is willed so that... I might be left quiet.

But, you know, this is surely a willed state, because I myself have the feeling, so far as I can perceive in my

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small measure, that in your immobility you are like a tremendous generating centre.

Yes, that I know. That I know. Tremendous. Yes, a Force....

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25 October 1972

The disciple gives a flower to Mother, and Mother gives it back to the disciple.

It is "the power of Truth in the subconscient".

(Silence)

In the subconscient all the contradictions are accumulated.

Yes.

And it rises thus (gesture of gushing up), all the time, all the time. And then... you have the feeling that you are absolutely imbecile, inconscient, of bad will. And all this (same gesture of a rising up from below).

And the consciousness is there (gesture around the head), peaceful, extraordinarily peaceful... (Mother opens out her hands) "May Thy Will be done, O Lord." And then that puts a pressure upon what is coming from below.

It is as though the battle of the world was being fought within my consciousness.

It has come to such a point that to forget, to forget the Divine even for a minute spells a catastrophe.

And with you, how is it?

Well, it seems to be interminable, this cleansing of the subconscient.

Yes. It is not merely that of one person, it is the subconscient of the earth. It is interminable. And yet one must...

So, to stop that means to stop the work. To continue that means it would take time.... I do not know... it is interminable.

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Clearly, yes, clearly, to stop that means to stop the work. It is as though in the consciousness there (Mother makes a gesture around her head) lay the centre of junction and action.

So I have but one means, to keep quiet, quiet, quiet (Mother opens out her hands upward)... to have the feeling that individuality is nothing, nothing, nothing—it allows the divine rays to pass. This is the only solution. It is the Divine who... who must do the battling.

(Silence)

Last time you said: Oh! Hundreds of years will be needed, perhaps thousands, before men turn consciously towards the Divine. But...

Perhaps not.

... one feels that this time something decisive is bound to come.

Yes.... You know, I have the feeling that the person is like an image for fixing one's attention. Men have need of something—they have always had the need of something of their dimension so that they can fix their attention. And so the body does all it can in order not to be an obstruction to the Divine Force which passes through, it seeks to annul its interception, and at the same time it sees that it is... as though an image that men need to fix their attention.

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4 November 1972

The whole subconscient... (Mother makes a gesture of a rising up from below.)

(Silence)

It is not a sensation, it is not knowledge, it is a kind of... (Mother feels the air with her hand)... it cannot be called a conviction: it is a certitude—a certitude in the perception—that there is a Beatitude which... which is there, ready for us, and that there is a whole world of contradictions suppressed in the subconscient which comes up in this way to prevent us from feeling it. So... one might say it is a battlefield, but in a perfect calm. It is impossible to describe.

Impossible to describe.

So, if I do not move and if I enter into this Consciousness, time passes with a tremendous speed and in a kind of... luminous calm. And then, the slightest thing that pulls me out of it, it is as though I was dragged into a hell. That is it.

The unease is so great that you feel you cannot live one minute or a few minutes in that way. And then... and then you call the Divine... then you feel you nestle within the Divine.

Then it is all right.

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8 November 1972

I have had for a moment—just a few seconds—the supramental consciousness. It was so wonderful, my child!... I have understood that if we were made to taste of that now, we would not wish to live otherwise. And we are in the course of (gesture of kneading) changing laboriously. And the change, the process of the change, seems... One can have it through a sort of indifference (I do not know how to say it). But it does not last for long. And generally it is laborious.

But that consciousness, it is so wonderful, you know!

And it is a very interesting thing, for it is, as it were, an utmost activity in a complete peace. But that lasted only a few seconds.

(Silence)

And you?

It is a total consciousness?

It is extraordinary. It is like the harmonisation of contraries. An activity, yes, total, tremendous, and a perfect peace.

But all these are words.

(Silence)

It is a material consciousness?

The action is a material action—but not in the same manner.

(Silence)

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How can one come into contact with that more easily? How can one reach there or be there?

I do not know, because for me the whole consciousness, including that of the body, is always (gesture of offering) turned constantly towards the... what it feels as the Divine.

And that without "trying", you understand?

Yes, yes.

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20 December 1972

You have nothing to ask?

I asked myself a question about Sri Aurobindo. I wanted to know at what point he had arrived when he passed away—at what point of transformation. What difference in the work, for example, is there between what you are doing now and what he was doing at that time?

He had gathered in his body a great amount of supramental force and as soon as he left... You see, he was lying on his bed, I stood by his side, and in a way altogether concrete—concrete with such a strong sensation as to make one think that it could be seen—all this supramental force which was in him passed from his body into mine. And I felt the friction of the passage. It was extraordinary—extraordinary. It was an extraordinary experience. For a long time, a long time like that (Mother indicates the passing of the Force into her body). I was standing beside his bed, and that continued.

Almost a sensation—it was a material sensation.

For a long time.

That is all I know.

But what I wanted to understand is at what point of the inner work was, for example, the cleaning of the subconscient and all that? What difference is there, say, between the work he had done at that time and the work to which you have come now? I mean to say, is the subconscient less subconscient or...

Oh! Yes, that, surely. Surely.

Well, this is the mental way of looking at things—I do not have it any more.

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Yes, Mother.

(Silence)

The difference is perhaps a difference in the general or collective intensity of this Power, of this Force, is it not so?

There is a difference in the power for action. He himself possesses more action, more power for action, now than when in his body. Besides, it is for that that he left, because it was necessary to act in that way.

It is very concrete. His action has become very concrete. Evidently it is something which is not at all mental. It is from another region. But it is not ethereal nor... it is concrete. One could almost say that it is material.

But this other region, I have often asked myself what is the true movement one must make to get there. There are two possible movements: the movement inward towards the soul, and another in which the individuality is annulled and one is rather in a wideness without the individual....

Both must be there.

Both must be there?

Yes.

(Mother goes into herself.)

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30 December 1972

So it is going to be the new year....

Do you feel anything for this new year?

(After a silence) Things have taken an extreme form. So there is, as it were, an uplift of the atmosphere towards a splendour... almost inconceivable, and at the same time the feeling that at any moment one may... one may die—not "die", but the body may be dissolved. And so the two at the same time form a consciousness (Mother shakes her head)... all the old things seem puerile, childish, unconscious—within there... it is tremendous and wonderful.

So, the body, the body has one prayer—and it is always the same:

Make me worthy of knowing Thee,
Make me worthy of serving Thee,
Make me worthy of being Thee.

I feel in myself a growing force... but it is of a new quality... in silence and in contemplation.

Nothing is impossible (Mother opens her hands upward).

(Silence)

So, if you have no questions... if you want silence... conscious silence...

But I do not know if I am making the right movement.

(After a silence) But when you want to enter into relation with the Divine, what movement do you make?

I place myself at your feet.

(Mother smiles and goes into herself.)

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7 February 1973

On Mother's message of 31 December 1972.

"There is only one solution for falsehood.

"It is to cure in ourselves all that contradicts in our consciousness the Presence of the Divine."

Yes, I insist on that; it is very true, very true. It may not be easy to understand, but it is a very profound truth.

All that veils and deforms and prevents the manifestation of the Divine in us: it is that, the falsehood.

It is quite a labour!

This is what I have been doing all the while—every day and the whole day long, even while I see people. It is the only thing worth living for.

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10 March 1973

I do not know, whenever I try to come in contact with this consciousness,¹ I have always the feeling, as you say, of a luminous vastness.

Yes.

But I have the feeling that it does not move, that one is there and one can eternally remain like that, but...

It is so. This is my feeling.

Is it enough to let oneself be filled with That, is there nothing else to do?

I think, I think that it is the only thing. I am repeating always: "What Thou willest, what Thou willest, what Thou willest... let it be what Thou willest, may I do what Thou willest, may I be conscious of what Thou willest."

And also: "Without Thee it is death; with Thee it is life." By "death" I do not mean physical death—it may be so; it may be that now if I lost the contact, that would be the end, but it is impossible! I have the feeling that it is... that I am That—with all the obstructions that the present consciousness may still have, that's all. And then, when I see someone (Mother opens her hands as though to offer the person to the Light), whoever he may be: like that (same gesture).

(Silence)

All the while (it is amusing), all the while I have the feeling that I am a little baby who nestles—nestles within... (what to call it?) a Divine Consciousness... all-embracing.

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Note on the Text

The conversations in this volume were spoken in French and appear here in an English translation. They were selected from the large body of conversations that the Mother called l’Agenda. These selections were seen, approved and occasionally revised by the Mother for publication in the quarterly Bulletin of Sri Aurobindo International Centre of Education; they came out regularly from February 1965 to April 1973 under the titles "Notes on the Way" and "A Propos" in the original French with English translations. The same translations, with minor revisions, were published in 1980 as Notes on the Way, Volume 11 of the Collected Works of the Mother (first edition). The text of this second edition (2002) is the same as that of the first, apart from a few minor revisions of the translations.

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