These conversations with the Mother, originally held in French, were noted down from memory by Mona Sarkar. They took place during the period 1959 - 1968.
The Mother : Contact
These conversations with the Mother, originally held in French, were noted down from memory by Mona Sarkar. They took place from 1959 to 1968, and covered such topics as the Mother's way of working with sadhaks, the different nature of the experience when people met her in her interview room, her work to reveal the divine harmony behind appearances, her relation with her own Mahasaraswati aspect, the power of Sri Aurobindo's presence one feels in his room, and the new consciousness that descended on earth in 1969. The last fourteen pages contain the Mother's written answers to questions Mona had submitted to her in his diary in 1951. The book contains many photographs of the Mother and facsimiles of her handwritten notes in the original French.
THEME/S
Mother, … essentially You and Sri Aurobindo are one and the same, isn’t it?
Yes, it is true, … I shall write it:
[essentially, that is to say outside the manifestation, always — in the manifestation, the union occurs when it is necessary and the duality exists when it is necessary.]
… Essentially we are truly one or the same, there is no difference. It is the same consciousness in two forms in the manifestation to support one or the other. This division is necessary for the equilibrium in the creation; but outside the manifestation … there is no division, the unity is complete. It is One or the Unique — One Consciousness. And sometimes the unity is seen when it is necessary even in the manifestation. When one opens oneself to this consciousness, one sees this unity. It is actually that…. One cannot explain what it is. It can only be lived. It is by concentration and by remaining open that one can arrive at this experience. It is not something constructed by the mind. The mind has no access to this region. Go home and try to understand what it is. All is written there (in the notebook). I have given a suggestion … a hint of what it is. I have written here just what it is….
December 3, 1967
(When I saw the Mother the next time, She explained: )
Really speaking, Sri Aurobindo and myself are the same, the same consciousness. Here below, there is a division, this is only to bring in an equilibrium in the creation. Otherwise, it is the same. We are truly one. No, it is very difficult to express. I do not find the words. No, it is not possible. It cannot be expressed.
Mother, last time You asked me to try to understand what You had written.
What is it?
Here. (I show Her the notebook and She reads what She had written last time)
But what is it that you do not understand? It is quite clear, there is nothing to explain.
All the same, Mother, can you elaborate on it a little, what it is exactly, to help me understand better. If you want, Mother, you can say many things about this.
But it is to be lived, it cannot be explained. No explanation is necessary. What do you want me to tell you?…
You understand, outside the manifestation, all is One. There is no difference. It is the same thing, one consciousness, a perfect unity. We do not have a separate existence. But when we descend here below, it seems we have different forms, a separate existence, while being one when it is necessary. Sometimes He is united with me, being at the same time everywhere in the universe. He is here in me. He talks to me. He unites himself with me. And at times He is separate from me, and lives an existence separate from me. And at the same time, He is in me. But in appearance, He is different from me. It is a game that unfolds: once He unites with me and at another time He throws Himself in the manifestation. He is here (Mother indicates Her body), He is there, He is everywhere in the universe. He is in each thing that is found in the manifestation. Sometimes He manifests Himself and sometimes He remains hidden and one does not see Him anymore. It is in this way that He sustains the creation. Once He unites Himself and at another time He separates Himself when it is necessary. One intermingles with the other and it is with a purpose, with a goal that He determines His actions. He is here and one finds Him there, simultaneously. He is … no, it is very difficult to express it. No, there are no words, one cannot understand by the mind what it is.
You know, when He left, … when He wanted to leave His body, He remained from the 5th December till the 9th…. At that time, He was charged with an unimaginable consciousness. It was a dynamic activity of the consciousness which radiated from His body. It was so concrete, so physical, that everything vibrated in Him with an astonishing power. It was so physically concrete…. I was beside Sri Aurobindo at that time. And I was seeing that Sri Aurobindo’s consciousness was coming out from Him and entering directly into me, like this, physically. It was an extraordinary phenomenon. I could feel His consciousness entering into my pores with a friction. It was as concrete as that. It was so intense that it was penetrating into me with a friction, something absolutely physical which I could feel outwardly. Like this, all His consciousness entered in me, because it is the same consciousness.
And He gave me everything before leaving. Everything, everything, without restraint and with a total self-giving, as if all His consciousness merged into me. And it continued for hours and hours. Ah, it was so material an event that one cannot imagine. I cannot describe it… He has left everything for me.
Well, it is this physical body which is limited, which is bound and which does not allow a free play. Once the consciousness enters into this (the body), it is completely restricted in this material form. But He, He is everywhere. He is here in me, as well as everywhere in the world. He speaks to me. I ask Him things and he replies. We have conversations and at the same time He speaks to others in different places when it is necessary. We decide the fate of the world and the destiny of humanity and all that will happen, what is necessary for the next stage. All this we decide.
His presence is everywhere, wherever one needs Him. Everywhere, everywhere. He is united with me and at the same time he is in different places. He is not limited, it is only the physical body that is limited, but not the subtle physical. The subtle physical penetrates everything and can go everywhere. It is not limited by the body. It is this (the body) that limits. It is the mind that cannot grasp. It is not with your mind that you can understand this. The mind cannot express, there is no means to express this. Only by experience…. My child, only the like knows the like, therefore one must rise to that consciousness to know what it is, to have the experience of this identical consciousness of the One….
Yes, it is always like that, — constantly there is a complete unity and a movement towards the exterior … this, everywhere and at the same time. This happens constantly, this unity, and this sort of ramification everywhere, everywhere. It is true, it happens incessantly; for those who have the vision, it is this that they see. It is the psychic vision.
December 10, 1967
The Work is the Same
Mother,
Did You have any communications with Sri Aurobindo before You came to know Him? For I have read some books where it is said that He and You have done almost the same work.
The work was and is the same, because the source of his inspiration and mine is the same: the Supreme.
February 23, 1951
(From another letter of the Mother)
The work consists in helping humanity as a whole to prepare itself for the new creation, that is to say, the supramental race.
May 19, 1968
Bonjour!
Bonjour, Douce Mère.
Are you all right? … What have you brought?
(I give to the Mother my notebook. I had written there that I had seen Her placing in my hands the book The Mother on Sri Aurobindo and telling me, “Therein is to be found all that you seek.” After reading my note She asked:)
Do you have this book?
Yes, Mother.
And you have found what you were searching for? Have you found in the book what you are looking for? What have you found…?
Mother, what I am looking for is found in each book of yours and Sri Aurobindo’s. In each book one can find what one seeks.
You have spoken well; in each book one can find it if one knows how to search. In each book…. One should know how to read with the true attitude, then one finds what one is seeking for, you understand?
It is true, you will find in this book what you are looking for.
Mother, the last sentence in this book is interesting and touching. Without Him, You do not exist, and without You, He cannot manifest.
You know, it is perfectly true. I do not know exactly how I have put it in the book[11], but without Him, I cannot exist and without me, He cannot manifest. One is complementary to the other. But in truth, we are both one and the same. It is the same thing, the same entity, which in the manifestation takes two separate forms to uphold the creation. Without that, it is the same — me and Him. There is no difference, no separation, no division, One, unique and the same. What He is, I am, entirely, in essence. It is like this (Mother locks the fingers of both hands) we are united, the same and identical, the One without division. But in the manifestation, it seems, the One divides itself, the One becomes two, like this (the Mother separates the fingers) to come into the manifestation. But it is only in appearance that the One divides itself in order to uphold the manifestation. In fact, it is the same, the One who takes two bodies — me and Him, only for the manifestation. In reality, these two entities are one and unique. It is in this way that the One appears in the manifestation. But what He is, I am. There is no difference. It is apparently a difference formed in the manifestation. We have two separate bodies but we are, one and the other, the same. No difference at all. We are like this (the Mother makes the same gesture). And beyond that, there is yet something, — what we are in reality, beyond, up there. But that is not to be spoken of. One cannot say in words what that is. And all that one says about That is nothing but stupidities. The words express nothing of that existence. Nothing, nothing, it is not meant to be spoken of…. The Supreme who manifests Himself in two forms.
October 28, 1969
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