Talks with Sri Aurobindo

10 DECEMBER 1938

Evening about 7:00 p.m. Sri Aurobindo lying on his bed. We, the regular attendants, sitting on the floor, very close together. Dr. Manilal opens the conversation with a question. Sri Aurobindo's voice is very soft, his speech slow

DR. MANILAL: Why did you choose Pondicherry as the place for your sadhana?

SRI AUROBINDO: Because of an Adesh, a Command. I was ordered by a Voice to come here. When I was leaving Bombay for Calcutta, I asked Lele what I should do about my sadhana. He kept silent for a while, probably waiting to hear a voice from within, and then replied, "Meditate at a fixed time and hear the voice in the heart." I didn't hear any voice from the heart but a quite different one from above, and dropped meditation at a fixed hour because meditation was going on all the time. When Lele came to Calcutta and heard about all this, he said to me, "The Devil has caught hold of you." I replied, "If it is the Devil, then I will follow him." The same Voice from above brought me to Pondicherry.

DR. MANILAL: We have heard that spirits used to come to you. The book Yogic Sadhan is said to have been written by the spirit of Keshab Sen.

SRI AUROBINDO: Keshab Sen? When I was writing it, always at the beginning and at the end the image of Ram Mohan Roy came before me. Somebody has evolved Keshab Sen out of Ram Mohan Roy. Do you know the origin of the name "Uttara Yogi" who is put as the author of the book?

DR. MANILAL: No, Sir.

SRI AUROBINDO: There was a famous Yogi in the South who, while dying, said to his disciples that a Purna (Integral) Yogi from the North (Uttara) would come down to the South and he would be known by three sayings. Those three sayings were those I had written to my wife. They are published in Mrinalinir Patra. A Zamindar disciple of that Yogi found me out, took the book Yogic Sadhan, gave the author's name as Uttara Yogi and bore the cost of publication.

DR. MANILAL: Did Lele have any realisation?

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course he had.

DR. MANILAL: It is said that Christ used to heal simply by a touch. Is such healing possible?

SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? There are many instances of such cures. No doubt, faith is necessary. Christ himself said, "Thy faith has made thee whole."

NIRODBARAN: Is faith always necessary?

SRI AUROBINDO: No, not always. Cures can be effected without faith, especially when one doesn't know what is being done. Faith is above mind, so any discussion or dispute spoils its action.

DR. MANILAL: Yes, I know of instances of cure or help by faith. When I first came to see you, you told me to remember you in any difficulty. I followed your advice and passed unscathed through many troubles. But when I came here again, I heard many conflicting things from people and didn't get the same result. I thought perhaps I couldn't open myself to you.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yours was what is known as simple faith. Some call it blind faith. When Ramakrishna was asked the nature of faith, he replied, "All faith is blind; otherwise it is not faith." And he was quite right.

DR. MANILAL: Is it because there is something in our nature or in the surrounding atmosphere that doubts come and the results are not as before?

SRI AUROBINDO: For both reasons. The physical mind has doubts inherent in it and they come up at one time or another. By contact with other people also, the faith gets obscured. I know one or two shocking instances in the Ashram itself. Once a truthful man came to pay a visit. Someone told him that the habit of always speaking the truth was nothing but a superstition and that one must be free to say whatever one likes. There is another instance of someone advocating sex-indulgence. He said that it was not a hindrance to Yoga and that everybody must have his Shakti! When such ideas are spread, it is no wonder they cast a bad influence on people.

DR. MANILAL: Shouldn't those who broadcast these ideas be quarantined

SRI AUROBINDO: I thought of that. But it is not possible. The Mother tried at one time to impose restrictions and regulations; it didn't work. One has to change from within. There are, of course, other Yogic systems which enforce strict disciplines. Buddhism is unique in that respect. In France also there is a school which enjoins rigorous silence.

NIRODBARAN: Is exterior imposition good?

SRI AUROBINDO: It can be good, provided one sincerely keeps to it. In that school in France, for example, people who enter know what they want and so keep to the regulations meant to help their object. Here the object is different. Ours is a problem of world-change. People here are an epitome of the world. Each one represents a type of humanity. If he is changed, it means a victory for all who belong to his type and thus a great achievement for our work. But for this change a constant will is required. If that will is there, lots of things can be done for the man.

NIRODBARAN: We gather that sadhana was going on very well in the Ashram at the beginning and things became sluggish only afterwards.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it is when the sadhana came down into the physical and subconscient that things became very difficult. I myself had to struggle for two years. For the subconscient is absolutely inert, like stone. Though my mind was quite awake above, it could not exert any influence down below. It is a Herculean labour. If I had been made to see it before, probably I would have been less enthusiastic about it. There is the virtue of blind faith! When one enters into the subconscient, it is like stepping on an unexplored continent. Previous Yogis came down to the vital level, they did not descend farther, and they were quite sensible in not doing so! But if I too had left it there, the real work would have remained undone. Once the subconscient is conquered, things will become easy for those who come after. That is what is meant by the "realisation of one in all".

NIRODBARAN: Then why should we take so much trouble? We can wait for that victory.

SRI AUROBINDO: You want an easy path?

DR. MANILAL: More than an easy path; we want to be carried about like a baby. Not possible, Sir?

SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? But you have to be a genuine baby!

NIRODBARAN: Ramakrishna has said that one need not be like a drawn bow.

SRI AUROBINDO: Where has he said that? A Yogi has to be always vigilant, especially in the early part of his sadhana, otherwise all he has gained can come down with a thud. People usually don't make sadhana the one thing of their lives. They have two parts, one internal and the other external which goes on with its ordinary movements, social contacts, etc. Sadhana must be made the one central thing.

NIRODBARAN: You once spoke of the brilliant period of the Ashram.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it was when sadhana was going on in the vital level. Then everything was joy, peace, Ananda. And if we had stopped there, we could have started a big religion or a vast organisation. But the real work would have been left unattempted and unachieved.

DR. MANILAL: Why did you retire? Was it to concentrate more on your work?

SRI AUROBINDO: No. It was in order to withdraw from the general physical atmosphere. If I had to do what the Mother is doing, I would hardly have found time to do my own work; besides, it would have entailed a tremendous labour.

NIRODBARAN: The Mother's coming must have greatly helped you in your work and in your sadhana.

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course, of course. All my realisations—Nirvana and others—would have remained theoretical, as it were, so far as the outer world was concerned. It is the Mother who showed the way to a practical form. Without her, no organised manifestation would have been possible. She has been doing this kind of sadhana and work from her very childhood.

NIRODBARAN: Yes. We also find in the Mother's Prayers and Meditations a striking resemblance between your ideas and hers.