Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

25th June, 1940

Disciple : We say everything happens, happens according to the Divine Will i. e. nothing happens without it. So the defeat of France happened according to the Divine Will i. e. according to Sri Aurobindo's will!

Sri Aurobindo : "Everything" does not mean every individual act or event. You can say Sri Aurobindo's will on another level of consciousness willed it. For instance, you can't say that I willed to break my leg!!

People think of God as a kind of super-dictator. The Divine Will lays down general lines –  but in actual play (Lila) it consents to limitations that are self-imposed. It has also to pay the price in the play of forces. Otherwise you can argue that Rama willed that Sita may be taken away by Ravana! Christ knew that he had to be crucified for the work and yet something in him wished it may be otherwise.

So, it is not all my "will"; it is the Karma of France and England also that is working.

I am almost getting sympathy and admiration for the British which I never had before. They are standing up alone against Hitler's power without allies – just as they did in Napoleon's time.

Page 278

Disciple : You wrote in a letter to Dilip that your will never fails.

Sri Aurobindo : No, I did not say that. What I said what the I have not seen my will fail (so far as the major events of world were concerned) in major events until now.

Disciple : What events?

Sri Aurobindo : For instance, Ireland's freedom. I wanted Alsace Lorraine to go to France. They were not fulfilled at the time when I willed – many have been fulfilled when I no longer wanted them. For instance, I wanted to break the British Empire. Now Hitler wants to do it. But I don't want it, as it would mean the triumph of Hitler. Wherever he has gone, he has destroyed the higher values of life.

If I want that British must not be destroyed it is not because I like the British Empire, but I see that it would push back the work tremendously. It is not mental utility but there are other utilities also.

Disciple : Does not the Divine Will foresee?

Sri Aurobindo : The Divine Will foresees everything, lays down lines of development and allows the play of forces to work out and in that play of forces it consents to certain things. It does not will for each individual fact.

It may include also running away like Krishna who fled from Kala Yavana.

Disciple : Is the Divine limited?

Sri Aurobindo : Every one who descends for a spiritual purpose, will have to be limited : of course, such a limitation will be self-imposed. That is to say, he will consent to the rules of the play of forces.

Page 279

Disciple : Now Hitler is giving bread to German workers.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, he says the German workers are without food and he is going to feed them. It is the Asura spreading his influence like that. He promises that he will bring peace and world-order etc.

The new order would be that the British should declare dominion status and pass some parts to Germany.

When Sri Aurobindo was told about the efficiency of air-raid shelter supplied by Anderson in England and after knowing how it worked Sri Aurobindo said, now the greater preoccupation of human mind seems to be to find out means of destroying each other and of escaping destruction. Man is said to be a rational animal but there is very little reason in these activities. It is of the same kind as ingenuity of the animal. What man is doing now is only extension of animal ingenuity. Formerly he used to destroy with swords and spears and other instruments.

Disciple : They could not do it so well as now, and you can imagine they are spending lakhs of rupees for one machine or one bomb.

Disciple referred to R. Gregg's article in the 'Harijan' in which he strongly advocates the adoption of khadi in Wardha scheme by European nations.

Sri Aurobindo : But they were destroying each other when they were using Charakha in the past?

Disciple : Perhaps not on such a large scale.

Sri Aurobindo : There are cases of the whole population of the city killed by their primitive method.

Page 280

Disciple : Instance of Baghdad where Ghangiskhan put up a tower made of one lakh of human skulls.

Page 281