Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

29th January, 1939

Sri Aurobindo was in a communicative mood. Looking at X he said. "Have you read Hitler's interview with Col. Beck in the 'Sunday Times'?

Disciple : No. What about it?

Sri Aurobindo : It was shouting at each other. It is said that when Hitler begins to shout his eyes become glassy and it means disaster.  But in this interview when he began to shout and eyes turned glassy, Beck began to shout louder. Hitler was much surprised to find this unexpected return and himself toned down.

 Disciple : What was the result of the interview?

 Sri Aurobindo : Relations with Poland were not much improved I suppose. (The topic changed) Sri Aurobindo turned to X :  "Did you see Subhas Boses' statement?

 Disciple : Yes, it seems unfortunate that at this time the Congress should be divided.

 Sri Aurobindo : Quite so. Whenever he has been in authority there has been trouble. Congress-split in Bengal came in his time. He is an intellectual without grasp of the

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realities. He talks of India exerting international influence! You are not even a nation and you talk of being international! You have to be first independent. Even in a small affair like the China-Japanese war, what you have been able to do is to send an ambulance unit.

 Disciple : Our Y who was in Bengal politics has not a very high opinion about Subhas Bose. He says, he is a good lieutenant but can't be a great leader.

 Sri Aurobindo : That has been my impression all along.

Disciple : It seems as if what he is doing is more for satisfying his ambition for power and egoism.

 Disciple : And all the talk about influencing the votes is meaningless. They are all trying to influence the voters on their side.

 Sri Aurobindo : Quite so. He says, he stands for principles, but all the time he is asking 'vote for me'.

 Disciple : But he is very sincere and honest.

 Disciple : Many leaders are that.

 Disciple : Not in Bengal – they are almost all dishonest.

 Sri Aurobindo : What do you mean by sincerity? Sincere means ready to suffer for the cause and honest means, he accepts no bribe or money. Is it not? But even during our Swadeshi movement though the leaders were egoistic and quarrelsome they were honest and sincere. Our fight was over principles e. g. Reform or revolution or as somebody put it, Colonial self government or Independence. We never fought on personal grounds as you now find between Bose and Sen Gupta or Khare  and Shukla. You know what Das said about criminals? He said :  "In my whole legal career I have not met such worst types of criminals as in politics." Evidently he knew about his own followers.

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Disciple : But if Bose sincerely believes that the Congress is going to compromise with the British Government on federation, is not he justified in fighting the federation in the congress? He says that some suspicious negotiations seem to be going on behind the scenes.

Sri Aurobindo : But what is there objectionable in negotiations?  Every country and every big party has to do it. The Germans before and during the war were doing it. Negotiation does not mean acceptance. There is no harm in seeing how far the other party will go in granting concessions, rights and privileges.

 Disciple : When Nehru visited Nahas Pasha in Egypt, Nahas said that their Wafd party had become demoralized after accepting office and now they are defeated. He wondered how the congress ministers have remained pure after accepting office. Nehru explained to him about the Parliamentary Board which acts as a check on the ministers. The Board has no administrative powers and ministers are not members of the Board.

Sri Aurobindo : I was surprised to hear about the dissolution of the Wafd party and wondered what it might have been due to. But then they ought to have turned out the king as Kemal did in Turkey. The present king is following the policy of his father. So, instead of quarrelling among themselves they should have – now that they have power – tried to build up their nation first, by giving people education and training. Secondly, they should make efforts to increase the wealth and lastly, they must build up military power. The same thing should be done in India by the Congress ministry.

Disciple : What sort of education? Technical?

 Sri Aurobindo : Technical, agricultural and other. How will they develop industries without properly educated and trained people?  India is such a vast country that if she can

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produce her own necessary things, she can consume them herself. External trade is not necessary at the beginning. That is what U. S. A. did. She developed first her internal trade to meet all the necessities of her own people; and when by that means she had increased her wealth she began to develop external trade. The government should have a plan for the economic survey of the provinces to see what could and should be taken up in each province.

Disciple : That is one good thing Bose had done; he has organized an economic planning committee.

Sri Aurobindo : But they must not neglect secondary education. You can't have efficient people without education. It creates common interest and a basis of common understanding. I don't mean the present form of education. It has to be radically changed. The Indian boys are more intelligent then English boys of the same age and status but three-fourths of their talent and energy are wasted, while the English boys use their talent ten times better than the Indian because of the training and equipment.

Disciple : The Bombay Premier has approached the merchants for donation to the Government, as there is going to be substantial loss due to prohibition. The government will have to levy new taxes if they don't get money.

Sri Aurobindo : It is better not to destroy the capitalist class as the socialists want to. They are the source of national wealth. They should be encouraged to spend for the nation. Taxing is all right, but you must increase production, and raise new industries, also  raise the standard of living; without that if you increase the taxes there will be a state of depression. Other nations tax enormously because they produce also on a large scale.

 Disciple : The congress ministers are opening agricultural schools training centres for small industries.

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Sri Aurobindo : It is a pity to give up all that work for merely fighting the Federation. You can fight it even after it is established. One has to accept what one gets and on that basis work out the rest. If the British Government finds that the federation is perfectly worked out it may not object to give more. They expect a crowd of demagogues shouting together in Assembly, not people capable of governing. But if socialism comes that might frighten them.    

Disciple : The present governor of Bombay seems to be sympathetic to his cabinet.

Sri Aurobindo : The English people have constitutional temperament, except of course, a few autocrats like Curzon. They will be violently opposed to their being kicked out, but they don't object to their being gently shouldered out as in the dominions. The dominions are practically independent. The British people will be quite content if they get India's help in case of an international war. But these declarations of anti-imperialist policy and 'no compromise' might tend to stiffen their attitude,What is the use of declaring your policy in advance? Even as regards the states one must not be too exacting in one's demands. They won't tolerate the idea of reducing them to mere figure-heads from the very beginning.

Disciple : Patel is a very capable man, but he is not liked by his colleagues.

Sri Aurobindo : He did not seem to me to be a very likable person. But if one has sincerity and capacity that is enough in politics.

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