Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

FEBRUARY, 1939

3rd February, 1939

A letter from a lady disciple was read to Sri Aurobindo in which she related some of her experiences. She is losing consciousness, finds the mind floating about as it were, lightning strokes in the head and a feeling of some presence. But these experiences give her very great fear and she complains of bad health.

 Sri Aurobindo : You can tell her that what she calls losing of consciousness is its movement inwards. It is rather unusual to get these experiences. Usually, one takes months and months to make the mind quiet and she did it at the first sitting. The lightning strokes is the action of the Higher Power, or Yoga Shakti to make the Adhar fit for Yoga. All these things show that she has a capacity for the Yoga. But she must get rid of fear. Otherwise, all the experiences will stop. The letter shows that her inner mind is ready but her vital and the physical are not – the

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vital is full of fear and the body suffers from bad health. As she herself says, it produces a conflict in the being which is not desirable. It may be better for her not to take up Yoga seriously, until she is restored to health. But the most important thing is to get rid of fear.

Disciple : But how to get rid of it?

Sri Aurobindo : That is the difficulty. Many complain of when one takes up the Yoga all sorts of experiences come in, which are out of the run of ordinary consciousness; and if one fears, Yoga is not possible. It has to be got rid of by the mind, i. e. by the psychological training and will-power. Any human being, worth the name has a will and that will has to be exercised or developed. She can ask for the protection of the Divine, lay herself in the hands of the Divine and say there is no fear. This is done by the mind. As Vivekananda very insistently said, the Yogi must be "Abhihi" – without fear.

I don't know whether I told you about my experience. After my meeting with Lele I was meditating at Calcutta. I felt a tremendous calm and then felt as if my breath would stop. A silly fear, or rather an apprehension, caught hold of me and I said :  If my breath stops how shall I live? At once the experience stopped and never came back.

 There are all sorts of experiences. What will you do if you feel your head being drilled through, or a nail being thrust inside? These things, of course, are not physical.

Disciple : But why can't the experience come quietly?

Sri Aurobindo : The experience comes quietly but you make a row! If your head or physical body is being split then you could object to it. You ought to know by now that

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all these experiences are in the subtle body.

Disciple : I had also once or twice such fear of presence as the lady speaks of. I sat to meditate before going to bed and I felt everything still and then as if there was some presence. That frightened me.

Sri Aurobindo : Why? You thought it was the devil that brought the stillness? But the devil, generally does not bring stillness; usually he makes a row. Two things are necessary in Yoga :  to get rid of fear and to know the ordinary symbols. (turning to X) You know V once in meditation saw that some golden beings came down and told him :  "Now we will cut your body and make it new." He cried out :  Never, never. He thought that his physical body was going to be cut. But the symbolism is quite clear :  the old elements in the nature would be thrown away and new ones brought in.

 Disciple : I heard afterwards that he turned to Jainism. I don't know if it is true.

 Sri Aurobindo : Was he a Jain by birth?

 Disciple : Yes.

 Sri Aurobindo : Well, that often happens. In one's vital and physical nature there remains a stamp of one's ancestral religion and it comes out at some time. The Christians usually turn towards Catholicism. A Frenchman – I forgot his name – tried all sorts of things, mysticism, Tibetan Occultism etc. When he was informed by one of our disciples that these things won't go with Yoga, he abandoned all connection and turned to Catholicism.

My grand father started by being a Brahmo and ended by writing a book on Hinduism and proclaiming it as thebest religion in the world.

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After a pause :  the topic changed. Sri Aurobindo turned to 'X' and said :   "So Subhas has met Nehru."

Disciple : Yes, Nehru may act as a mediator and Tagore may be the peace-maker between the two parties.

Sri Aurobindo : Subhas speaks of direct action after six months. But what sort of direct action? It seems, Gandhi will leave him to form his own working committee; it will be a great blunder if Gandhi did that. And with Gandhi left out, what direct action can take place? is it that subhas and his followers will take off their coats and fight? or reject seats in the Assembly? Salt Satyagraha is out of question. There remains breaking laws. But the Government will bring in the moderates and rule by them and even run the Federation so long as you don't send better men. No-tax campaign? But that is a tremendous affair. Gandhi himself says, the country is not ready for it. I don't think Subhas has so much influence or capacity to make it successful, or an all India movement. Neither does he himself believe in non-violence. His own followers don't seem to know their own mind.

Disciple : Tagore wants Subhas to compromise with Gandhi, for he knows that Gandhiji is an international figure.

Sri Aurobindo : Not only that, his word counts; he has not lost the force yet. I think, if he made a public statement that he wanted Pattabhi to be elected, he would have him elected. But there are  still six months to inaugurate the Federation; what is Subhas going to do in the meantime? Gandhi knew that Subhas will take up this attitude and hence he did not want him. Now with his followers left out of the working committee, the leftists will probably pass laws, abolishing zamindars and capitalists and spoil the work done by the Ministers. They would try to

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introduce social legislation and that would make the Governors use their powers, or, if they keep out of the Assembly, it would be foolish to throw away the powers given. Before I left politics, I wrote :  If you get real power, take it and fight for more like De Valera, who took what was given and grabbed at more. In the present international situation when the Government wants to come to a compromise with the Congress you should accept it, if what they give is acceptable and fight for more.

Disciple : That seems to be Subhas's idea, but he says :  Now is the time to press for independence.

Sri Aurobindo : That would be all right if the country was prepared for revolution, so that even if Bose and a few others were hanged the movement could have gone on and ultimately the Government would have yielded as in Ireland. There, in Ireland, the lives of the people who went against the national movement were not safe. Otherwise, one has to proceed with subtler ways. But what Bose claims now is impossible to get. On the other hand, it will set the Government against you and they will try to crush the movement.

Disciple : But if they work this provincial programme and prepare the country at the same time, and press the States to give rights to the people then, we might get what we want without revolution.

Sri Aurobindo : Exactly. It is a clever drive to bring in the States and if they can carry it through, the Federation will have the Princes and the Congress on one side and only the minority of the Muslims will remain out. Subhas has not done a wise thing.

Disciple : People are severely criticizing Gandhiji's statement.

Sri Aurobindo : Only the leftists are doing that. No right

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wing man has said anything except S. C. Das (after a long pause of silence) :  

The British people have one weakness; they can't drive things to the extreme. They can't go on like the Germans and some other nations with methods of suppression for a long time. They have their prestige to keep before the world and they want people's support. They want to govern with a show of consent or law or constitution. So, they come in the end with a compromise. France comes to a compromise, but takes a much longer time. But Germany or Italy can't hesitate to go to the extreme limit. For instance, in Palestine, the British Government have almost succeeded in crushing the terrorists. If they had persisted they could have easily put Nahashiby against the Mufti and rule the Arabs by the Arabs. But they could not go on and now they have called the Palestine Conference. If the Mufti is clever he will be able to get as much as possible, but not the whole of it.

Disciple : What about the Jews?

Sri Aurobindo : They can leave them to their fate, or they can be sacrificed for their self-interests or they may do something just to save their face. In Ireland, they came to a compromise, even the Conservatives turned round.

In Tunisia, the French have put the Dasturians into prison, but if they can keep us, France will give in.

Disciple : Roosevelt seems to have declared for democracy.

Disciple : Now Hitler will think twice before he tries to do anything.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, if he is capable of thinking. His inner voice may ask him to push on. Mussolini may think twice unless he too is Hitlerised. In that case Hitler will

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say :  I have given you a chance for Colonies. If you don't take it up I will go to Ukraine. Mussolini may not like that. During Czech-crisis, it was mere bluff that he succeeded. He knew from private sources that England and France won't fight.

Disciple : Roosevelt has promised France armaments and U. S. A is selling aeroplanes and other materials. He may come to their help if they are attacked.

Sri Aurobindo : But it is doubtful if he can carry the nation with him. The armaments are increased for the defense. But if they are exported people may think it will involve them in a war. At any rate, his speech has come as a great blow to both Italy and Germany. Chamberlain also may think of supporting France now. A remarkable man, this Roosevelt, he is bold and ready to experiment and take risks. It is the old Roosevelt blood, only the first Roosevelt was Fascist. This one is very refined.

Disciple : J says that there may not be any war after all.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, if the British and the French people go on yielding to the demands of the dictators. The British may say to Germany :  we will supply you raw materials, you can come and settle here.

Disciple : (to another disciple) You have seen Hidayatullah has become a Minister of Sindh?

Disciple : Has he? Allah Bux has won him over, it means. He earned a lot of money from the Sukkur Barrage Scheme during his ministry in Bombay, before the congress government.

Sri Aurobindo : How?

Disciple : He used to sell plots of land to customers through

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his agents and he kept some of the best lands for himself. There were similar charges against some ministers in the Central Provinces.

Disciple : Though people bitterly criticize the High Command, it has done a good job.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. It is the High Command and Gandhi's dictatorship that has kept the country together. That sort of weakness is very common in America and even in France. But you may not find such corruption in England. The public life there is honest and sincere. They may tell lies and may break their promises, but bribery or appropriation of money hardly exists in their public, or political administration. As they say, "they are not done." If a political leader does that sort of thing he is finished for life. Thomas is wiped out – nobody hears of him now. The judges make no distinction between rich criminal and a poor one – as they do in America and France and I suppose India is no better.

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