Sri Aurobindo : conversations
THEME/S
3rd January, 1939
There was hearty laugh over the thesis of a Marathi writer with Socialistic tendencies who tried to prove that Swami Ramdas was a socialist!
Disciple : Some of the Sadhaks seem to become too delicate, – a small cut or even smell of burning ghee upsets them. Sometimes other people who cannot understand this say this is mere feinting.
Sri Aurobindo : They used to brand the body with hot iron to see if the man was in trance or not! They thought perhaps that it might be only deep trance and not Nirvikalpa Samadhi! (Laughter)
Disciple : Can it be that the man would not feel anything?
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Sri Aurobindo : There are cases of people who, when under hypnotic influence, are unaffected by pins being introduced into their bodies. And also there are cases where the man is made to stretch out his hand and even two or three strong people cannot bend it. There are also cases in which sugar tastes bitter under hypnotic influence. And the question is whether sweetness or any other property is in the subject – as in the sense of beauty – or in the object.
Disciple : What is that capacity due to?
Sri Aurobindo : There are no physical causes, these phenomena are due to supraphysical causes and there the laws of the physical do not apply.
Disciple : But then what is sweetness due to – in the case of sugar?
Aurobindo : The question is whether experience of sweetness is a common reaction of all human beings, or has the object anything in it corresponding to the experience of sweetness.
Disciple : But something of the property of the object persists, like the effect of medicine in opathic doses,m – the smallest quantity retains the quality.
Disciple : But what is your conclusion, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo : I don't know.
At this point the Mother came and the subject matter was reported to her.
Mother : I do not believe that the phenomena were due to hypnotism. In hypnotism you impose control on another man, the subject, i.e., your will replaces his will.
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But I know what I have seen. In most cases I have seen that both the hypnotizer and the hypnotized lend themselves unconsciously to the influence of occult forces. Anything that takes place in that condition is due to the influence of those forces. I know one case, – an extraordinary case, of exteriorization in which almost the material, – the vital and the vital-material, form of the subject was separated from the body of the hypnotized person. If the hypnotizer controls the man and if he has good will, it may do the "subject" no harm. But in most cases he keeps himself aloof to direct the person and cannot take charge of the body and in the interval it is some other forces that take possession of the body.
It is dangerous to do these things except under guidance, or in the presence of somebody who knows these things. You find people speaking languages in that unconscious condition which they do not know at all. It is because some of their being in the past, or subconsciously, knows the language and in that state, a contact is established between the part of the subconscient and the man speaks the language. It is not as if the hypnotist willed that : "the man shall speak a particular language" and the man begins to speak that language even though there may be no part in him that knew the language. Such a thing is impossible. Only, if there is a part that knows and if one can establish a contact then he can speak that language.
Disciple : Is this knowledge indispensable for yoga?
Sri Aurobindo : Not necessarily. It is useful for knowledge of the physical and also for mastery over death, it is essential.
There is an ancient prophesy in the Jewish Cabala
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that the kingdom of God would be established in humanity when the man will come who would have the power to die and come back, i.e. take up his body again, – after death. It is essential to know what is death if you want to conquer it. That shows that the ancients foresaw the need for the knowledge and also that of transformation of the physical.
It is curious how some people can easily separate their subtle bodies from the physical, say in three or four days even. They go out of the body and see their body lying in front of them, while in other cases they do not succeed.
This knowledge is also useful in curing diseases. For instance, it is perfectly easy to prevent diseases and to cure them if you have the knowledge of these planes. There is what is called "the nervous envelope", which is an intermediary between the subtle and the gross body. It is that which acts as a sheath protecting you against all attacks of diseases. If the nervous envelope is intact no disease can come to you. In most people, with aging, this envelope wears out and then gradually the forces are able to penetrate and pierce it. That is one of the causes of death.
Disciple : Can this nervous envelope be seen in the patient?
Sri Aurobindo : Yes; and if you can see what is necessary you can put it in. In order to keep it in tact you must have quiet, a balanced life, rest, etc. People generally spoil it by excitement and other irregularities.
In the case of exteriorization done by the Tibetans, a thin thread is maintained when one leaves the body
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and if that is snapped the man may not be able to return to his body.
Disciple : There are cases of Tibetans who expose themselves to ice without any bad reactions and also there was report of the messenger who practically flies throughout Tibet carrying the tidings of the lama.
Sri Aurobindo : These are known phenomena.
Disciple : There are so many miracles reported about Sj. Bijoy Goswami. Do you think they are all true?
Sri Aurobindo : I have no personal knowledge of them. But I believe most of the miracles attributed to Bijoy Goswami are more possible with the subtle than with the physical body.
Sri Aurobindo then recounted the story of how Mother was once on the point of death in Algeria when she was practicing the yoga with Theon and his wife both of them great occultists. Madame Theon particularly was a remarkable woman.
The Mother exteriorized and visited Paris and met her friends. The exteriorization was sufficiently material to enable her to write on a piece of paper with pencil. The Tibetans are more familiar with occultism than with spirituality.
The Europeans are more taken up with the occult things. They either believe everything or nothing. That explains their attraction for Tibet, Bhutan and other places of occult atmosphere. Now-a-days stories and novels are being written with these themes. Japanese Zen Buddhism, and also Chinese Laotze have also attracted their attention.
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I also wrote some stories but they are lost; the white ants have finished them and with them has perished my future as a story-teller. It is a pity that the translation of Megh Duta which I did is lost. It was well done. Most of my stories were occult.
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