Sri Aurobindo : conversations
THEME/S
7th February, 1939
Disciple : Bose has called his leftist Conference. I wonder what programme they are going to formulate.
Sri Aurobindo : That is what they are not going to say. The only thing they are to do is to give an ultimatum to the British Government. After that they will break some laws or ask the Ministers to resign on the States' issue, if they have not done so by that time.
Disciple : The States' question will be an all-absorbing matter and the split in the Congress may be avoided.
Sri Aurobindo : But it is not definite what the princes will do. They are under the thumb of the British Government. Only a man like Holkar and Nabha may side with the Congress and risk losing his Gadi – throne.
This year there is this threatened split in the Congress between Subhas and his Socialists and Gandhi's followers. Socialism in England is of a watery kind.
Disciple : In Russia some signs of freedom are noticeable.
Sri Aurobindo : That is because Stalin has killed all unpleasant
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to him. He can now wait till some other people come up in future whom he can kill.
Disciple : Spain is finished.
Sri Aurobindo : Yes.
Disciple : But Madrid remains and General Mioja is there.
Sri Aurobindo : When Barcelona has fallen Mioja cannot do anything. Besides, what can he do without arms and food.
Disciple : Mussolini does not intend to remove the troops from Spain.
Sri Aurobindo : That is what he said the other day.
Disciple : It was Gayda who said that.
Sri Aurobindo : Gayda is the mouth piece of Mussolini. When he does not want to say anything himself he speaks through Gayda. But Daladier could make a Spanish legion out of the Spanish refugees as a counter-blast to Mussolini's Italian legionary in Spain and use it in case the French troops are not allowed to come from Morocco. But it is too bold a policy for Daladier.
Sri Aurobindo : That, of course; when somebody comes to take hold of family possession, the family will unanimously refuse.
Disciple : The French Chamber voted unanimously against Italian demand of Colonies.
Disciple : But I wonder how Flandin supports the Fascists.
Sri Aurobindo : He will be lynched if he talks of parting with Tunis, Corsica etc. It is a question of parting with some
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deserts in Africa. French people may agree, as they wanted to, during the Abyssianian war, but Mussolini would say : 'I am not a Collector of deserts'
Disciple : But Italy is sure to push her claims again.
Disciple : Hitler has advised him to keep quiet now.
Sri Aurobindo : Yes, till Franco's victory is complete.
Disciple : Bonnet wanted to come to a compromise.
Sri Aurobindo : Bonnet is not reliable. Daladier has, at least some force. On one occasion he refused to listen to Bonnet and said, he would not tolerate any interference of England in connection with the Italian question. The French people don't know that they have to stand up to the British and speak to them bluntly. During Czech-crisis when Chamberlain told them that he would help them diplomatically so far as possible, but they should not count on his military support, they should have replied that if England was attacked by the Germans they should not count on them as allies. Then Chamberlain would have come down.
9th February, 1939
Dr. R. stayed up to 9-30 P. M. As soon as he left the topic of the local politics was brought in :
Disciple : The Governor has invited the three parties to see if a compromise can be arrived at. What he says is that they may have their own political views of whatever colour but they must not go on killing each other.
Sri Aurobindo : He will be one of the greatest diplomats in the world if he can reconcile their interests and have a common programme.
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(The topic changed to the Congress election)
Disciple : Subhas and his Conference do not seem to have settled on any programme. Today's paper says that Gandhiji has wired to Subhas not to stand for the presidentship. But he does not seem to have paid any heed to it. It may be that many delegates may vote against him.
Sri Aurobindo : The only thing he speaks of is challenging the British Government and attacking the States – rather a tall order.
Disciple : Yes, Gandhiji also challenged the Government. The result was the Round Table Conference. In the end, Willingdon arrested Gandhiji and refused even to see him.
Sri Aurobindo : Willingdon now will look with queer eyes at the Congress ministries and think that all he had done has been undone.
Disciple : The working Committee (of the Congress) has decided to give Subhas the Committee of his choice. But the people he has called at Calcutta for a conference don't seem to be promising.
(The names were read out to Sri Aurobindo)
Sri Aurobindo : Who are these people? They seem to be an army of no-bodies. Except Aiyangar, Aney and one or two others these people were never heard of before.
Disciple : The other States seem to be supporting Rajkot and asking him not to yield.
Disciple : If the states organize, backed by the Paramount Power – the British – and lend their support then Rajkot may stand through and the Satyagraha may not succeed. Look at Mysore and Travancore – Mysore has only appointed
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Committee which may go on for three years and so do nothing.
Moreover it is very difficult to keep the movement non-violent. If it is kept to the middle class it may be possible, but if the masses come in then violence is inevitable. You see the murder of the Bazulgate in Orissa and breaking out of violence in Travancore. Human nature is human – if the movement is confined to a small state like Rajkot it may succeed, but in the big states it is impossible to keep it non-violent.
Disciple : In Travancore it is Sir C. P. Ramaswamy Aiyar who engineered the outbreak.
Sri Aurobindo : I don't believe it. In many cases I have seen that Congress people are not noted for their truthfulness. They say what suits them. But if they propose to come out of the Assembly because of failure in Rajkot or Jaipur, it is not at all good. These small states must be deprived of their power and be made like Jamindars. One never knew that there were so many states.
Disciple : Jaipur has again released Bajaj (hearty laugh).
Bajaj was a little hurt while being forcibly removed. Gandhiji called it 'organized goondaism.'
Sri Aurobindo : I do not understand why Gandhi calls it 'Goondaism'. If Bajaj resisted they will have to use force to remove him and injury is quite possible.
Disciple : Pratap Singh may be persuaded by Krishnamachari to part with some of his privileges.
Sri Aurobindo : I saw his photograph today. He has a weak face, nothing of the grand father in him. His father had more brilliance and dash. Pratap Singh has a soul – but not a strong one.
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Jaysingh Rao was dull. Shivaji Rao was intelligent. I taught him French; he was a good student. Dhairyashil showed signs of premature development of lust. All that was due to the servants of the palace.
Indira was more interesting and there was something sturdy in her. She had the most of her father – Sayaji Rao – in her.
Disciple : There is a criticism of Pujalal's poetry by a poet critic. He says, it is not "rooted in the soil", too Sanskritised and not written for the masses. English poetry, he says, is founded on the Anglo Saxon language.
Sri Aurobindo : Not at all. The great Shakespeare and poets from Milton to Shelley did not write, consciously in the Anglo Saxon language – except William Morris, who used Anglo Saxon words. They have followed Latin and Greek vocabulary. And the idea of writing for the mass is a stupid idea. Poetry was never written for the mass. It is only a minority that read and appreciated poetry. The definition of modern poetry is what the poet himself and a few of his admirers around him understand. Shakespeare and Milton are not mass poets.
Martin Tupper and Mrs. Hymans wrote for the mass – "He stood on the burning deck, when all but he had fled" – That sort of thing. Tupper sold more in his life than all the best poets put together. It is curious, many of the modern poets are communists, but they don't write for the mass.
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