Sri Aurobindo : conversations
THEME/S
7th January, 1939
Disciple : Can the ego be removed by the psychic attitude and by the realization of Self?
Sri Aurobindo : Psychic humility takes away the egoism but not the ego; removing of the ego of the natural individuality is not the work of the psychic. The psychic depends upon and maintains the natural individuality. The psychic is there, so that the natural individuality would turn to and progress towards the Divine.
Disciple : How is the ego removed?
Sri Aurobindo : Ego is removed by the realization of the Spirit; that is, by attaining to the spiritual consciousness Above, which is independent of Nature, which is self-existent. That Spirit is One in all. Realization of that
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removes the ego, because then one identifies himself with the Spirit.
Disciple : What then replaces the "I" in the divine individual? What is the nature of the psychic individuality?
Sri Aurobindo : In the case of psychic individuality the man may feel the ego of the Sadhu – the Saint – the Bhakta – the devotee, or the virtuous man. He may also get rid of egoism by imposing on the nature one Spirit and a feeling of sympathy for all humanity. But that is not the same as getting rid entirely of the ego. The psychic clears the way for the removal of the ego.
Disciple : What happens when one realizes the Spirit?
Sri Aurobindo : Generally, when one realizes the Spirit, it is the mental sense of the ego that is abolished; but the vital and the physical still retain their egoistic movements. That is what most Yogis mean when they say "It is nature". They mostly allow it to run its course and when the body drops, it also drops; but, it is not transformation. That is what Vivekananda meant when he said that "human nature cannot be changed, that it was like a dog's tail, you can straighten it if you like, but as soon as you leave it, it is curved again."
Disciple : What is really meant by this "nature"?
Sri Aurobindo : It means that the subconsciousness has in it certain gathered powers which impose themselves on the human being.
Disciple : How to transform or change this human nature?
Sri Aurobindo : In order to change human nature you have to work from level to level; you reject a thing from
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the mind, it comes to the vital. When you reject it from the vital, then it comes to the physical and then you find it in the subconscient.
There is a central point in the subconscient that has to be changed. If that is done, then everything is done. It is from there that resistance rises from Nature–that is what Vivekananda meant. To effect complete transformation you have to bring down everything to the subconcient, and it is very difficult.
Disciple : How can one replenish the exhausted nervous being? Can it be done by drawing energy from the Universal Vital or by the help of the Higher Power?
Sri Aurobindo : Both ways can be combined : One can draw from the Universal Vital and the Higher Power can also work. But there should be no Tamas, inertia, and other excuses.
Disciple : Was there a time when these things were experienced?
Sri Aurobindo : When we were living in the Guest-house, we passed through a brilliant period of Sadhana in the vital. Many people had dazzling experiences and great currents of energy were going round. If we had stopped there – like other Yogis – we would have given rise to a brilliant creation, or, would have established some kind of religion; but that would not have been the real work.
Disciple : Could a great progress in the conquest of the physical being have been made at that time?
Sri Aurobindo : If the Sadhaks had taken the right attitude, then with the gain in the vital it would have been easy in the physical, in spite of difficulties. But that was not
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done. Then we came down to the physical. Those brilliant experiences disappeared and the slow difficult work of physical transformation remained. There–in the physical–you find the truth of the Vedik rik–censurers are always ready telling–"you can't do the thing, you are bound to fail".
Disciple : Would it then mean that the new people who would come to the yoga would have no experience of the mental and the vital planes?
Sri Aurobindo : They can have, if they hold aloof. Only, they can't help the pressure on the physical nature as it is in the atmosphere.
There are cases that differ : there is some one X who made very good progress in the mind. In another case the Sadhak became aloof and progressed; but the moment he came to the vital, the whole thing seemed to have stopped.
Disciple : Did he lose the contact with the Brahmic consciousness entirely?
Sri Aurobindo : No, it is only apparently lost. But if he cannot go further, then his yoga stops there, that is all.
Disciple : Can the new comers make rapid progress?
Sri Aurobindo : Certainly they can. I know cases, where they go on very well making good progress.
Disciple : Will the yoga be more easy for the lucky new comers?
Sri Aurobindo : Yes, in a sense; but the conditions may be more exacting, and the demands made on them may be
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high. You had an easy time. You were left to do, more or less, as you liked in your mind, and the vital and other parts. But when the change in the subconscious has to come about, many will find it difficult; there will be some who will progress and others who will not and will drop out. Already some like X had dropped out, when the Mother took a decision about his vital being –"you will have to change". Before that he was swimming in his art and other things, but as soon as this came he dropped out. All these things – attachments, sex-impulse etc. – finally find refuge in the subconscient. One has to throw it out from there – destruction of the seed in the subconscient is necessary, otherwise it would sprout again, as we see in the case of some Yogis.
Disciple : Can one have these things in him when there is complete union with the Divine?
Sri Aurobindo : What is the "complete union"? For instance, Ramakrishna asked the Divine Mother not to send him "Kama" – sex-impulse – and he succeeded, but all cases are not like that. It is quite possible to reject something centrally and totally – that is to say, completely – but one can't make general rule about these things.
Our yoga is like a new path made out in the jungle and there is no previous road in the region. I had myself great difficulties; the suggestion that it was not possible was always there. A vision which the Mother has sustained me : the vision of a carriage moving towards the highest peak on a steep hill. The higher summit is the transformation of Nature by the attainment of the Higher consciousness.
Disciple : Is there nothing that can be taken as established informally in all the yogas?
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Sri Aurobindo : In this yoga you have to go on working out again and again the same thing. Thus it becomes a long drawn out struggle, one falls and rises, again falls. Take for instance, Nirvana, quietude and samata. I had to go on establishing them again and again till when I had done it in the subconscient this accident came. It can be a test.
Disciple : What made the attack possible?
Sri Aurobindo : There were gaps in the physical.
Disciple : Can one take this as a part of Lila or game?
Sri Aurobindo : Well, it is the ignorance and the Divine is working out from there. If that was not so, what is the meaning of the life?
Everything looked all right and it appeared as if I was going on well with the work, then the accident came. It indicated that it is when the subconscient is changed that the power of Truth can be embodied; then it can be spread in wave after wave in humanity.
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