Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

XI

15th August, 1923-1926

Sri Aurobindo spoke on the 15th of August 1923.

Formerly we used to celebrate the event of my physical birth in a "vital" manner. There was the seed of the inner Truth in it, but the manifestation was vital. Now, I wish that if the day is observed it should be in keeping with the Truth it symbolises.

You all know of the Supramental Truth that has to descend into our life. This day that Truth is symbo­lised. But there are several obstacles in the way of its coming down. There is the Mind and the mental ideas that grasp at the Truth coming from Above and try to. utilise the Truth for their own aims. There is, for instance, the Vital, or the Life-force, which seizes upon the Higher Force and wants to throw itself out into impure actions. The Truth that is coming down is not mental, it is Supramental. In order that it may be able to work properly, all the lower instruments must be Supramentalised. The lower forces want to utilise this higher Truth for the satisfaction of their ordinary movements. Whenever a man enjoys the pleasures of life, or spends his life in pursuit of his selfish ends it is, really speaking, these universal forces that take enjoyment through and in him.

In order that this higher Truth may be able to work in its purity, one has to open oneself to the greater Power above, to give oneself up to it and remove all

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that stands in the way of the higher Truth. The capacity to surrender consists in these three things.

I have been working all these years to meet the obstacles and remove them and prepare and clear thp path so that the task may not be very difficult for you As for my helping you in that task it all depends upon your capacity to receive the help. I can give any amount that you can take. There is an idea that to-day every sadhaka gets a new experience. That depends upon your capacity to receive the Truth in yourself. Real spiritual surrender is of course, quite another matter ; but if any of you have experienced even a degree of it, even some faint reflection, then the purpose of the 15th will have been served.

Sri Aurobindo came out at 6 o'clock in the evening.

15-8-1923

Disciple : May we know something about the present state of your Sadhana ?

Sri Aurobindo (in a clear but low voice) : I cannot call it a state, or a condition. It is, rather, a complex move­ment. I am at present engaged in bringing the Super-mind into the physical consciousness, down even to the sub-material. The physical is by nature inert and does not want to be rendered conscient. It offers much greater resistance as it is unwilling to change.

One feels as if "digging the earth", as the Veda says. It is literally digging from Supermind above to Supermind below. The being has become conscious and there is constant movement up and down. The Veda calls it "the two ends" – the head and the tail

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of the dragon completing and compassing the con­sciousness. I find that so long as Matter is not Supra-mentalised the mental and the vital also cannot be fully Supramentalised. The physical is therefore to be accepted and transformed. It is this birth after birth on every plane that makes the process complex. I am trying to bring the highest layer of the Supermind into the physical consciousness.

There are three layers of the Supermind corres­ponding to the three activities of the Intuitive mind. First is what I call the Interpretative Supermind. I call it interpretative because what is a possibility on the mental plane becomes a potentiality on the Supramental plane. The Interpretative Supermind puts all the potentialities before you. It shows the root cause of events that may come true on the physical plane. When intuition is changed into its Supramental value, it becomes Interpretative Supermind.

Next comes what I call the Representative Super­mind. It represents the actual movements of the potentialities and shows what is in operation. When inspiration is changed into its Supramental value then it becomes this Representative Supermind. This is not the highest Supermind. You know certain potentialities working and in many cases you can say what would happen, or how a certain thing happened or can happen. But there may be no certainty. Finally there is the Imperative Supermind which corresponds to Revelation. It is always true as nothing can stand against it. It is Knowledge fulfilling itself by its own inherent power.

I have to distinguish between all these and try to bring down the Imperative Supermind into the physical. Thus, there is a constant movement up and down. The whole being is now made conscious but what is required is that no force should be able to attack the

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physical. Then the second thing is to apply the Imperative Supermind to things within and, thirdly to apply it to things outside. At present, by the Supra-mental Power any force that attacks the body can be thrown aside. But when the process is complete no conscious hostile force -would be able to attack the body at all. In all this I am following a certain programme that was laid down for me when I came down to Pondicherry. :

Disciple : The question, then, is of physical immortality.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, – in case the physical is rendered immune the casting away or retaining of the body would be voluntary. One would be free to throw it away, – it would be, really, dull and monotonous to be forced to keep the same body through all eternity.

Disciple : Is it possible to illustrate the difference between; what one attains in the Mind and what is attained in the

Supermind ?

Sri Aurobindo : I can give one instance : The mental samatā – equality – I attained was not disturbed for months by anything. It was the samatā of the Shankerite outlook. But true spiritual samatā comes when the Imperative Supermind descends : the self-certainty of the Power brings the true divine samatā.

Formerly there was some difficulty in differentiating between will of knowledge and knowledge-will – say between force and knowledge. Now it is not there.

Disciple : When will this work be finished ?

Sri Aurobindo : There can be no definite time-limit.

Disciple : What was the nature of the attack you got last.

Sri Aurobindo : Whenever I am about to finish a definite stage in Sadhana the conscious hostile forces come and first raise up anything in the being and show it to me "Look here, this you have not conquered." They can also attack.

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Disciple : Is this idea of the Supermind present in the Veda ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, it is very clear, though the emphasis of the Vedic Rishis is more on going above – ascending – than on the return movement of conquering and transforming the lower nature.

Disciple : Can one say that the idea of conquest of the physical is also there?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, the idea is definite. :

Disciple : Do you know of any man who has brought down the Supermind to the physical plane.

Sri Aurobindo : No, I, don't.

Disciple : Is there any stress in the Gita on bringing the Supermind down ?

Sri Aurobindo : No. Its insistence is on Karma, on action not so much on the Supermind. Besides, many other things are there in the Gita.

Celebration of the 15th

15-8-1924

Who can describe this day ? Nothing can be added by the colours of imagination, poetic similes, and loaded epithets. It is enough to say "It was the 15th of August." No other day can come up to it in the depth and intensity of spiritual action, the ascending movement of the flood of emotions, and the way in which each individual here was bathing in the atmosphere.

It is the supreme sign of the Master to assume all possible relations with his Disciples, make them real, and Concrete, Each Disciple knows him as his own, and each

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the Master accepts as his. Each believes the Master loves him most and it is true that he loves each the most. This feeling is not an illusion or delusive self-hypnotism but quite real. The spontaneous dynamic law of the Suprerne Truth which he embodies is love – divine love.

In all the inmates the delight of surrender is over­flowing – the bliss of surrender, its sparkle pervades all. All is given up, everything is surrendered. How free you feel ! How light and unburdened you feel ! There is some one to take up the whole of your burden, – there is a power of Supreme Love. Him you can trust implicitly. You need only to give up your little self, the rest is his work you have no worry, no anxiety! No effort – only the way of loving surrender ! How easy !

Every face is beaming with the joy of surrender, every one is happy and overflowing with joy. And yet there is no external reason, no outer materials for this intense joy. From where is flowing this unlimited Delight ? They say the Master was not in such a happy mood these two or three years.

From early morning the Ashram is humming with various activities : decoration, flowers, garlands, food, bath etc. All are eager to go up to the Master for his Darshan. As the time passes there is a tide in the flood of rising emotion. It is "Darshan" – we see him everyday, but today it is "Darshan" ! To-day each sees him indi­vidually, one after another. In the midst of these multiple activities the consciousness gets concentrated. To-day is "Darshan" – not of human being but of some Supreme Divinity. To-day is the rare chance of seeing the Divine.

There he sits – in the royal chair in the verandah-royal and majestic. In the very posture there is divine self-confidence. In the heart of the Supreme Master, the great Yogin – a sea of emotions is heaving – is it a flood that mounts from or a flood that is coming down on humanity

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Those alone who have experienced it can know something of its divinity. Those who have bathed in it once can never come out of that ocean. He sits there – with pink and white lotus garlands. It is the small flower-token of the offerings by the Disciples. Hearts throb, prayers, requests, emotions pour forth – and a flood of blessings pours down carrying all of them away in its speed. Lack of faith, doubts get assurance. All human needs the Divine fulfils and, after fulfilling, his grace overflows. Love and grace flow on undiminished. The look ! – the enrapturing and capti­vating eyes ! Who can ever forget? – pouring love and grace and ineffable divinity. If some transcendent Divinity is not here where else can he be ?

He is usually an embodiment of Knowledge. But to-day he is different. He is all love. Here is the Great Poet and the Supreme Lover incarnate ! It is an inquiring, loving and blessing in a glance ! Man does wonders with his eyes and looks but to do so much divinity is needed.

The question is what to ask ? love or blessings ! or, should one pray for love and blessings both and in addition for the acceptance of unworthy persons like us ? Standing on the brink of Eternity when the soul saw his dreamy and loving eyes, then was it captured for ever. The inex­plicable mystery of divine love was here a tangible expe­rience ! who can explain a fact ? A fact is a fact and an experience an experience. There is no explanation possible.

"What should I give him ?" is the question of the mind. "What should I ask ?" is the question of the heart. Both refuse to answer and both are unanswered. The mind feels the insignificance of its offering, and remains mute. The heart is ashamed because of its beggar's attitude, it even feels its pride wounded. How to solve this pleasant embarrassment ? The beggar heart carries the day. There even a kind of curiosity to find out how one is accepted, What happens to oneself,

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But all this was before Darshan. As one actually stance in front all curiosity, all pride, all thoughts, all questions all resolutions are swept away in some terrific divine Niagara. Thou embodiment of love Supreme ! what trans­parency ! In the heart of the Supreme Master also an ocean of emotion is heaving. The heart melts and falls at his feet without knowing, it surrenders itself ! where is here a place for speech ! There is only one speech ! – the language of the body and its flexion, that of the ! prostration of the body in the act of surrender, throbbing of the heart and that of the flow of tears from the eyes ! What a peace pregnant with divinity ! What a beauty of this experience !

Everyone is trying to maintain samatā – equality. Everyone is quiet and is trying hard to remain calm. But to-day all the barriers of humanity are swept away by the flood of Divine Love. The soul has its samatā – its equality – but the whole nature is in agitation as unknown waters have rushed into it. Knowledge is laid on the shelf – and it is all a flood of love. To-day the soul has received the certitude of the Divine's victory as it had never done before.

In the dining room are gathered all bathing and bathed in delight. Everyone is happy – supremely happy – in perfect ecstasy. To-day there is an empire of Delight ! O Artist ! what a marvellous art ! So much of delight – for everyone of them ! delight that fills each and overflows. At four o'clock all gather at the usual place of sitting – the verandah. All sit there full of hope in silence ; one or two whisper to each other. The mind of the company is silently repeating, "When will he come ? May he come. It is four fifteen ; – the old familiar and yet new "tick , behind the door ! Slowly a door opens : The Master steps out first behind him the Mother with white creamy san-with broad red border. He sat in his usual broad Japanese chair. The Mother sat on the right side on a small stool.

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For a short time – about five minutes there was complete silence !

Then he glanced at each one separately. The minutes were melting into the silence. There is again a wave of emotion in all, all bathe again into an ocean of some divine emotion. How wonderful if the whole Eternity would flow in this experience ! Time, poor Time and its flow is blamed by men. But where is the fault in the flow of Time ? If so much Love and such Divine Delight can have its play – let poor Time flow and have its Eternity ! And let the world become Divine ! Another powerful aspiration that came to the surface was : "Expression is not needed – let the whole of eternity flow away in this silence !"

When the Master came for the evening sitting emanating joy he asked with a smile, "What do you want to-day ? – Silence or speech ?" As if he had come to confer whatever boon we ask. For a time it was silence that reigned. Then from that silence a flow appeared to start. The hearts of the Disciples were tip-toe with expectation, for to-day they were hearing not human speech but words from the Divine. To hear with human ears the Lord speak ! What a fulfilment !

The substance of what Sri Aurobindo Spoke on the 15th August 1924

(This year Sri Aurobindo came out at 9-15 in the morning and again at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. He spoke for about 30-35 minutes, 10-15 minutes he remained silent in the beginning.)

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It has become customary to expect some speech from me on this day. I prefer to communicate through the Silent Consciousness, because speech addresses itself to the mind while through the Silent Consciousness one can reach something deeper. We are practising together a yoga which is quite different in certain essentials from other methods which go by the same name. According to the old method we have to select the intellect, the emotion or the will or to difierenciate between Purusha and Prakriti, the conscious Soul and Nature. By that we arrive at an Infinite of Knowledge, an all-Loving and all-Beautiful Supreme or an Infinite Impersonal Will, Or the Silent Brahman beyond our mind, emotional Being or, Will or our individual Purusha.

Our yoga does not aim at an Impersonal Infinite of knowledge, Will or Ananda but at the realization of a Supreme Being, an Infinite Knowledge which is beyond the limited infinity of the human knowledge, an Infinite Power which is the source of our personal will and an Ananda which cannot be seized by surface movement of emotions.

This Supreme Being that we want to realize is not impersonal Infinite but a Divine Personality ; and in order to realize Him.we have to grow conscious of our own true personality. You must know your own inner y being. This Personality is not the inner mental, the p inner vital and the inner physical being and its consciousness as is many times wrongly described, but it is your true Being which is in direct communication with the Highest. Man grows by gradual growth in Nature and each has to realize his own Divine Person which is in the Supermind. Each is one with the Divine in essence but in nature each is a partial manifestation of the Supreme Being. :

Such being the aim of our yoga we want to return

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upon life and transform it. The old yogas failed to transform life because, they did not go beyond mind. They used to catch at mental experiences but when they came to apply them to life they reduced it to a mental formula. For example, the mental experience of the Infinite or the application of the principle of universal Love.

We have therefore, to grow conscious on all the planes of our being, and to bring down the higher light, power and ananda to govern even the most external details of life. We must detach ourselves and observe all that is going on in the Nature, not even the smallest movement, the most external act must remain unnoticed. This process is comparatively easy in the mental and vital planes. But in the physico-vital and the physical plane the powers of ignorance hold their sway and reign in full force, persisting in what they believe to be the eternal laws. They obstruct the passage of the Higher light and hold up their flag. It is there that the powers of darkness, again and again, cover the being and even when the physico-vital is opened the elements of ignorance come up from the lower levels of the physical being. To deal with them is a work of great patience. The physico-vital and the physical being do not accept the Higher Law and persist. They justify their persistence and their play by intellectual and other justifications and thus they try to deceive the sadhaka under various guises.

Generally, the vital being is very impatient and wants to get things done quickly on the physico-vital and physical planes. But this has very violent reactions and therefore the mental and the vital being, instead of seizing upon the Higher Light and Power, should surrender themselves to the higher Power. We have not to rest satisfied with partial transformation. We have to

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bring down the higher Power to the physical plan^ and govern the most external detail of life by it. Mind cannot govern them. We have to call down the Higher Light, Power and Ananda to transform our present nature This requires an essential utter sincerity in every part of the being, which can see clearly all that is going on in the Being and which wants only the Truth and nothing but the Truth.

The second condition of the Light coming down and governing even the smallest detail of life is that one must grow conscious of his Divine personality which is in the Supermind.

There is sometimes a tendency in the Sadhaka to be satisfied with experiences. One should not rest content with mere experiences.

Another thing is that, here, as we are, all of us together, given to the pursuit of the same Truth the whole time we have arrived at some kind of solidarity so that we can mutually help or retard our progress.

The conditions of transformation of the being are the opening of ourselves to the Higher Light and an absolute surrender. This brings about the transforma­tion, so that if there is the entire essential sincerity, opening to the Light and surrender and a gradual growth of consciousness on all the planes, you can become an ideal Sadhaka of this Yoga.

15-8-1924

Sri Aurobindo came out and anticipating the questions about his own sadhana, asked X. "Do you want me to keep the tradition ?"

Disciple : I was thinking of asking about your sadhana

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but I was afraid of being referred to the "Silent Consciousness".

Sri Aurobindo : Do you then want me to speak about the Silent Consciousness like Carlyle who preached his doctrine of silence in 40 volumes ?

Disciple : The difficulty is that by silent consciousness we can't find where you are.

Disciple : We want to know about your own sadhana.

Sri Aurobindo : All I can say is I am doing the same thing over and over again ; only I am doing it each time better,

Disciple : That is a very encouraging discovery.

Disciple : That is known to us.

Sri Aurobindo : Is that ? I thought it is quite fresh. The physical layer is a very obstinate thing and it requires to be worked out in detail. You work out one thing then think it is done ; something else arises and you have again to go over the same ground. It is not like the mind or the vital where it is easier for the Higher Power to work. Besides there – in the mind and in the vital – you can establish a general law leaving out the details ; the physical is not so ; it requires constant patience and minutie (detail)

Disciple : In the vital you feel galloping like a horse.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, there is a sense of movement and success in the vital but the physical always denies your achieve­ments and repeats the same thing over again, so there is hardly much that can be spoken about it.

Disciple : What are the signs by which one can know that the higher calm has settled in the physical ?

Sri Aurobindo : In part or in the whole ?

Disciple : In the entire range of the physical.

Sri Aurobindo : But before the higher calm can settle there, you. must grow conscious of the physical.

Disciple : How ?

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Sri Aurobindo : As you have got the consciousness of the mind, of the vital being so the body must get its own consciousness. When that consciousness is present you feel the calm like something solid (substantial) settled like an immovable block which cannot be shaken even by the most material shock (less so by the mental or vital shocks).

Disciple : In your present stage of sahdana where do you stand with regard to the question of Death ?

Sri Aurobindo : In my own case ?

Disciple : Yes ?

Sri Aurobindo : There are three things that can bring it about : –

1. Violent surprise and accident.

2. Action of age.

3. My own choice, finding it not possible to do it this time, or by some thing shown to me which would prove it is not possible this time. .

Disciple : Sometimes I have a suggestion that if the body can retain the higher calm, power, and ananda, then the body would be free from death.

Sri Aurobindo : That is only the general principle. But that won't do on the physical plane. You must work out all the details. It is just like the .political move­ments of India where to establish a general rule (or maxim) is regarded as quite sufficient ; the details are never worked out.

Disciple : When the vital being has got the calm and power and ananda then sometimes there is an idea that the body is also immortal.

Sri Aurobindo : That is due to the vital casting its own glow upon the physical. The vital Purusha is immortal and that creates a sense of immortality in the body but that is not the real conquest. In the case of Swami Brahmananda (of Chandod) he lived upto 300 years

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so that he was practically immune from the action of age but one day a rusty nail pricked him and he died of that slight wound. On the physical plane some­thing you have not worked out turns up and shows that your conquest is not complete. That is why the process takes such a long time. You must establish the higher Consciousness in every atom of the body, otherwise what happens is that something escapes your view in the hidden depth of the lower physical being which is known to the hostile forces and then they can attack through that weak point. They can create a combination of circumstances which would give rise to the thing not worked out and before you can control them they are already beyond control. In that case they can destroy you.

Disciple : Why is the physical so very obstinate and obscure?

Sri Aurobindo : Well, it is the nature. That is the arrange­ment. If the physical were not like that then the thing would have been done much easily and long ago instead of taking Kalpas and Manvantaras. The Sadhana would have been very easy. God does not want it to be easily done.

Disciple : Some time back you told us that this attempt was done several times in the past but on account of various reasons it was not successful. Will it be success­ful this time or not ?

Sri Aurobindo : I can't say.

Disciple : But you said that this can be done and this time something will be done.

Sri Aurobindo : But "this can be done" is not the same as "this will be done this time".

Disciple : No. What he wants is whether you. want to improve upon that statement ?

Sri Aurobindo : All I can say is ‘ask me next August’ ; this time I am more hopeful than I was last. year. It is

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more possible now than it was last year. Last was a very hard year in my sadhana. There was attack from the darkest physical forces on me. This year they are all gone.

Disciple : When will it be finished ?

Sri Aurobindo : You want me to prophesy ? It does not! depend totally upon me ; time is about the last thine-1 one knows. And fixing the limit is more likely to prolong it" like "Swaraj in one year". Besides, a Yogin who is to take part in action is not shown all the things by the Supreme. Only when the universal conditions are ready then all things are shown to him ; while one who is detached sees many things more. Also, the Supreme does not decide every detail before the universal conditions are ready when it comes down with an imperative .decision. In between, it is all a working of universal forces. For example, take the case of physical disease to which you are prone by nature. When you have worked it out you find the same thing comes up in other forms. You cannot leave it off without working out all details and in each detail you can see only possibilities and moral certainties. Not that the Supreme does not know it all the time ; only, it does not interfere till the universal conditions are ready. The decision which the universal forces work out is also the decision of the Supreme.

Disciple : Are the universal conditions fulfilled so far as the physical is concerned?

Sri Aurobindo : The general conditions have been fulfilledl in the case of the physical consciousness ; but now the most material level remains and that is the most dangerous.

Disciple : Why is it most dangerous ?

Sri Aurobindo : Because it is solid, compact, and can refuse or give up its own stuff completely. It is the least open

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15-8-1925

Evening conversation. Sri Aurobindo came out 7 o'clock.

Sri Aurobindo : Anybody going to keep up the tradition!

Disciple : We are only waiting for the signal

Sri Aurobindo : The whistle is given, you can start.

Disciple : We want to know something about your sadhana

Sri Aurobindo : (in Bengali) Amār sādhanā ! Ami ki sādhanā korchi ? My sadhana – Am I doing sadhana? Ask some other question.                             

Disciple : From experience of the physical plane till now, do you think that it is possible to bring down the Supermind into the physical plane ?

Sri Aurobindo : Why not ? I would not attempt it if it were not possible. If you mean, by that question, "whether it is possible this time and now," then that is quite another matter.

Disciple : That is what I mean.

Sri Aurobindo : It all depends upon things outside myself. It is to be seen whether the physical plane is ready to receive the Light, for it is not always that the physical plane is ready when the Light descends.

Disciple : Can you not give any certainty about it ?

Sri Aurobindo : I never said it was certain.

Disciple -.Last year when this question was put to you

Sri Aurobindo : What did I say ?

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Disciple : You said "Ask me next August".

Disciple : When the question was put to you, you said "It is more possible this year than it was last year."

Sri Aurobindo : That is quite another matter. I could not have used the other expression. I can say now, "It is more possible this year than it was .last year." (All burst into Laughter as he evaded the answer).

Sri Aurobindo : I am not joking. There have been mani­festations of it now that were not there before. The Power is working more directly on the physical plane.

Disciple : Then can you not give the certainty ?

Sri Aurobinde : You can give the certainty, instead of me, I can't. You can see for yourself.

Disciple : If I could see I would not have asked you.

Sri Aurobindo : Then, you want to throw the whole burden on me and evade your responsibility ?

Disciple : If you push me like that into a corner then I can't say anything.

Sri Aurobindo : Well, you want the truth from me and not a pleasant falsehood, I suppose. I have been feeling this very strongly for the last two days, that is why I say this. It is not a personal question, I am speaking of the general atmosphere. I find that the more the Light and Power are coming down the greater is the resistance. You yourself can see that there is something pressing down. You can also see that there is the tremendous resistance.

Disciple : This is quite a new thing this time.

Disciple : It is not at all new. It is only expressed this time.

Sri Aurobindo : Now that we have all come to the lower vital and the physical planes where the struggle is most acute I am speaking from there and not from any higher standpoint. (Short pause : then to a Disciple : ) No, K – you can't evade your responsibility. {Laughter).

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I am not doing an isolated yoga. When I wrote that much-abused sentence about humanity in The Yoga and its Objects there was a truth behind it though I was not conscious of it. It is true that my yoga is not for humanity ; but it is not for myself either ; of course, my attaining to the Siddhi is the preliminary condition to others being able to attain it. If I were seeking my own liberation and perfection, my yoga would have been finished long ago.

Disciple : You said in your speech in the afternoon that the physical plane had not been worked upon by any­one before.

Sri Aurobindo : I did not say that no attempt had been made in the past. Attempts were made but nothing stable was attained on the physical level ; nothing fundamental was established. If it were established, the thing would be there, however partial the achievement.

You see, however imperfect the achievement, it is there in the Mind and you find it, so also in the Vital. But you find nothing like that in the physical plane.

Disciple : It means that the necessary atmosphere for bring­ing down the Supermind on the physical plane is to be  created ?

Sri Aurobindo : That is the whole attempt. You ought to help in it by creating the necessary condition, if you want it to be done this time.

(pointing to himself) There is the centre. You can take from it. But we must be all on one side if we want to succeed. If you give room to hostile sugges­tions you retard your own progress and also the general advancement.

Disciple : What should be done to reduce the resistance of the physical nature ?

Sri Aurobindo : You must have an integral aspiration for the truth. It is true, of course, that there come times in

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the Sadhana when the mind gets depressed, and the higher Presence is veiled, the knowledge obscured. At that time it is the aspiration and the faith – what Ramakrishna balls "blind faith" – that supports one. That faith is not really speaking "blind". It is the memory of the soul. If faith is .necessary to Couẻ out a disease, much more is it necessary to bring down the Supermind. If I had lost faith I would have given up the effort long ago.

Disciple : Anybody else would have given it up long ago. {Laughter).        

Disciple : Is the transition from the Mind to the Supermind more radical in its nature than that from the Super­mind to the planes above it?            .

Sri Aurobindo : What do you mean by that ? Do you mean it as decisive a step as from Ignorance to Knowledge ?

Disciple : Yes.

Sri Aurobindo : You see, the Mind works on the basis of division.  It always takes the truth .piece-meal, – one . aspect at a time and acts as if a part were the whole. Now this very basis is false.

The Supermind is unity and on the basis of that unity it knows the division. It is the stage nearest to us towards the Divine. Of course, it is also working in the Mind. But in the Mind you seek and find truth partially. Mind is an effort at knowing, but not know­ledge.  Mind only represents, it cannot attain.  It cannot fully express the truth.

On the vital plane also the Supermind works. There its working is Instinct, a precise but covert working which is nearest to the Supermind. But the Supermind is something quite different.  You may say it is something automatic though not in the mecha­nical sense. You can say it is "self-active" Truth. Once you attain to the Supermind you can escape

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Page – 320 – 321 missing

when she put too many questions, "Don't ask many questions, otherwise your head will fall off".

Disciple : It would be a blessing if the head fell off.

Disciple : If this conquest of the physical plane is once achieved, would it mean the defeat of the hostile forces in cases where there might be no opening to the yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : You come back to the same question of humanity in another form. That is to say, you want to know whether this victory would mean universal a victory. Well, let us wait and establish the thing on the physical plane first, then we shall see.

Disciple : {On behalf of X) How are the universal conditions more ready now for the coming down of the Supermind than they were before ?

Sri Aurobindo : Firstly, the knowledge of the physical worlds has increased so much that it is on the verge of breaking its own bounds.

Secondly, there is an attempt all over the world towards breaking the veil between the outer and the inner mental, the outer and the inner vital and even the outer and the inner physical. Men are becoming more "psychic".

Thirdly, the vital is trying to lay its hold on the physical as it never did before. It is always the sign that whenever the higher Truth is coming down, it : throws up the hostile vital world on the surface, and you see all sorts of abnormal vital manifestations, such as increase in the number of persons who go mad, earth-quakes etc. Also, the world is becoming more united on account of the discoveries of modern science, the aeroplane, the railways, the wireless telegraph etc. Such a union is the condition for the highest Truth coming down and it is also our difficulty.

Fourthly; the rise of persons who wield tremendous vital influence over large numbers of men.

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These are some of the signs to show that the uni­versal condition may be more ready now. Of course we do not know anything about the conditions of past attempts. But in so far as we can see now there are conditions to warrant the attempt

Disciple : Do you consider the knowledge of the world-forces a necessary part of the yoga.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes ! You have to deal with world-forces because they make themselves felt, especially the hostile ones ; and so also you have to know the forces that make for help. Even when one is doing individual Sadhana, these universal forces make themselves felt. Of course, as you develop, their aspect changes com­pletely. " The movement of these world-forces does not begin on the lower planes. It begins high above. All decisions are made high above, it is true, but they are not allowed to be known to the planes to which they concern. A veil is interposed, and each plane is left free to make its own decision. The struggle is left to be decided over again by the contending forces. It is only when the decisive turn has been taken that the highest decision is made known. You can help the greater knowledge to grow into you by trying to get the lesser knowledge.

Disciple : What is our place in this yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : Your place ? What do you mean by the question ?

Disciple : I can't explain it, I think.

Sri Aurobindo : You roust put precise questions if you want precise answers.

Disciple : Probably he wants to know what is the responsi­bility of the sadhakas ?

Disciple : Yes, I mean that.

Sri Aurobindo : But I simply said that as a joke, because K wanted to back out.

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Disciple : But I took it seriously.

Sri Aurobindo : Well, I did not say it seriously, though there^ was something behind which was serious. {All laughed)

Disciple : This is the Supramental reconciliation of the opposites. (Laughter again).

Sri Aurobindo : Well, you can help the attempt by one-pointed aspiration. You should reject everything that Stands in the way of fulfilling this ideal. But, if instead of doing that, you go on accepting the sugges­tions of the hostile forces and repeat their mantrams which would give you or give others the idea that it is not possible then you help them.

Disciple : I will put one question.

Sri Aurobindo : It is time now, put it some other day. (End).

Sri Aurobindo’s speech on l5th August 1926.

I shall say a few words to-day about the 15th of August. The question was one that was recently put to me and I gave a negative answer in order to remove - certain mental and conventional notions on the matter.

I shall now speak about the positive side of the matter. There is another side to it and if there were not that other side there would be no use in this cele­bration. I shall not refer to the personal aspect for very obvious reasons, but I shall say something in general with regard to what it can and ought to mean in regard to the yoga, the common object we all have in view.

What that object, – that yoga – is you know in principle. It is the bringing down of a Consciousness, a Power, a Light, a Reality that is other than the consciousness which satisfies the ordinary man upon earth : a Consciousness, a Power and Light of Truth,

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a Divine Reality which is destined to raise the earth-consciousness and transform everything here.

That cannot take place unless there is a decision from Above. But, also, it cannot be unless the earth-consciousness itself is in some part of it, in some of those who dwell here upon these lower planes, ready to receive.   Once this Consciousness, the Power descends it is there for all times and everyday for those who are willing and fit to receive it.

But we have attached a special importance to this day and it is justified if we live in the light of the Truth it symbolises. For this day we can fix a mark in the stage in the individual and general progress. It is a day which ought to be a day of consecration, of self-examination and a preparation for future advance, if possible, for the reception of a special Power which would carry on the work of advance.

This can only be done in each individually if he takes up the true attitude and lives on that day under the right conditions.

That was what I meant when I spoke the other day. It is we who can make it a decisive day in this sense, and it is we who can help to fulfil it.

There must be a consecration from beforehand, and a looking inward on the past to see how far we have reached, what in us is ready, what in us has not yet changed and has yet to be changed, what stands behind waiting for a complete transformation ; what still resists and what is still obscure. There must be the aspiration, a calling down of the Power to effect the change which we see to be necessary.

All this we cannot do if we throw ourselves out on this day, but only by an intense concentration so that the internal being is ready, and turned upwards to receive the Light. In proportion as we admit an

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externalising movement we disturb the higher working and waste the energy needed for the work of inner" change. Whatever is done other than on ordinary days should be done either as a part of the movement itself or as something which is held on the outskirts of the being and cannot disturb the inner movement. And all the customary circumstances of the day must be used for advance.

And if you came to me in the morning, it should not be in fulfilment of a customary ceremony but with your souls and minds prepared to receive. If you listen to me now and if it is merely something that touches your mental interest and satisfies a mental interest I had rather remain silent. But if it touches somewhere the inner being, the soul, then only this day has a utility or a purpose. And the meditation too ought to be under such conditions that even if nothing decisive descends there would be a certain infiltration the results of which would come afterwards.

That is the one meaning of the 15th of August from the point of view of our yoga.

As to taking stock of the work, where you are and the work, how far it is done, etc., certain things ought to be remembered. You know them with the mind.

First, remember that what are the objects of other yogas are for us only the first stages, or first conditions. In the former ways of yoga men were satisfied if they could feel the Brahmic Consciousness or the cosmic consciousness or some descent of Light and Power, some intimation of the Infinite.

It was thought sufficient if the mind got certain spiritual experiences and underwent partial trans­formation and the vital being was in contact with it.

They sought for a static condition and considered release as the final goal, and final aim.

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To realise all this, to be open to the Infinite and Universal Power, to receive its intimations and to have experiences, to completely go beyond the ego, to realise the Universal Mind, Universal Soul, the Universal Spirit, that is only the first condition.

We have to call down this greater Consciousness directly into the vital being and into the physical being, so that the supreme calm and universality will be there in all its fullness from top to bottom.

If this cannot be done then the first condition of transformation is not fulfilled.

Second thing we have to know and remember is that nothing is perfectly done unless all is perfectly done. It is not sufficient to open the Mind and the Vital Being and leave the Physical being to its obscurity.

So in the transformation also, mind cannot be transformed unless the Vital Being is transformed. And if the Vital Being is not transformed nothing can be realized ; because it is (he Vital Being that realizes. So if the mind is only partially changed and if the Vital Being is open and also partially changed it is not sufficient for our purpose. Because the whole range of the Vital Being cannot be done unless the Physical Being also is opened and changed, for the divine Vital cannot realize itself in an unfitting environmental life.

And it is not enough for the inner Physical Being to be changed if the external man is not transformed. In this process of yoga there is a whole totality and each depends upon the other. Therefore to stop short may be a preparation for another life but it is not the victory. All has to be changed before anything permanently can be changed. The third thing to remember is that if all is to be changed and done then there must be complete surrender

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It means there must be no reservation in any part of the being ; any compromise with old customary thoughts and human ways of doing things. . Wherever anything is reserved, it means the Truth is not accepted and we shall commit, again, the old mistake of partial achievement and transformation. We should leave no field for the indulgence of ignorance.

For us there can be no such theories, no such com­promise between falsehood and Truth ; between the Supreme and the Lower Nature.

It is remembering these things that we have to take stock of our work. To see how much is to be done, not in any spirit of pessimism because the way is long and hard and cannot be done by a miracle. It can only be accomplished by a large and thorough movement. Each step you have to take as a mark, as an encouragement, for a step towards the Beyond. On one side no lack of resolution and the zeal for the victory to be won, on the other no hasty impatience nor de­pression. But the calm certainty for the Divine Will,  – and the calm will that "It shall be done in us" and the aspiration that "it may be done for us so that it may be done for the world."

Conversation with Sri Aurobindo on the l5th August 1926.

Disciple : What would you say this time about the success of our efforts ? Last time you said that you were certain about it.

Sri Aurobindo : I did not say that I was certain. : Let us ask X for information.

Disciple (to the first one) : Why do you put a question in that way? You can put the question anew on your own account without referring to the past.

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Disciple : From the general conditions prevailing now, can you not say whether you are sure or not ?

Sri Aurobindo : I am sure and I am not sure.

Disciple : How?

Sri Aurobindo : I can say that I am morally sure but practi­cally not sure. I am not sure practically because the material world is unrepentant.  The chief obstacle which may prove to be insurmountable is the resistance of the material world.

Disciple : What do you mean by- "unrepentant" ?

Sri Aurobindo : 1 mean, that the material world does not care a jot for the Divine or the Divine Life.

Disciple : What do you mean by the resistance of the material world ?

Sri Aurobindo : Its impossibility of opening to something high, of conceiving something different from what it is accustomed to. I am referring to the obscurity and stupidity of the human being, if I may say so. When I speak of the resistance of the material world, I do not mean the external material but the subtle material. There is the subtle and the external material and when I say that Matter is impenetrable, I mean that the subtle material has not accepted the Truth, the material mind has not accepted the higher truth. The cells of the material body have a consciousness of their own and that consciousness has to open itself to the Truth. But the material mind does not believe in the Divine possibility of transformation. And as I already said for us nothing is done unless all is done.

Disciple : How are you morally sure ?

Sri  Aurobindo : Because I see more and more power coming down into the physical and the physical being is showing signs of awakening.

Disciple : But we know that once the Truth is accepted by the mind, then it presses upon the vital being and

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opens it to the higher Truth. And when the vital hi opened, it presses upon the physical being. So now asT you say that the power is coming down on the physical plane, does it not follow that it will overcome the resis­tance of the material plane in course of time and the rest will follow naturally ?

Sri Aurobindo : It does not necessarily follow.

Disciple : Suppose the material being does not change ?

Sri Aurobindo : If it does not, then it would become an insuperable obstacle.

Disciple : Is there no other obstacle to the success except the resistance of Matter ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, practically none else.

Disciple : Does it mean that no obstacle will arise from the Asuric forces ? I do not mean the Asuric vital world itself but the obstacles from the physical world backed by the Asuric.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. All this resistance of Matter is backed by the Asuric forces. But if Matter itself yields, then those forces do not count. I do not mean there would be no difficulty from them, but what I mean is that it would have only a secondary importance.

Disciple : What are the conditions to be fulfilled before the resistance can be overcome and have we any responsi­bilities in fulfilling them ?

Sri Aurobindo : Conditions ! It is more than I can say {Pause). You would not understand it even if I were to say it.

Disciple : Let us hear it. We shall try to understand it.

Sri Aurobindo : Well, the condition is that if man could open a direct connection with the world of the Gods, then only it would be possible.

Disciple : I do not understand unless you explain every word of it.

Sri Aurobindo ; So I said.

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Disciple : Do you mean the lower or the higher gods ?

Sri Aurobindo : I mean the gods, and not the vital gods nor the mental gods.

Disciple : But if the subtle physical accepts the higher Truth ?

Sri Aurobindo : It may have accepted in my case but that proves nothing. It does not mean that it is established in the universal or that it is fundamentally and radically changed.

Disciple : Will not the whole physical yield to it ?

Sri Aurobindo : Of course, it is logically but not practically certain.

Disciple : But then is there no sign of its changing its attitude ?

Sri Aurobindo : No, as yet there is no decisive sign of any change ; but as more and more Power is descending into the physical, I may say that I am morally sure that the material will yield.

Disciple : If the laws of Matter change, will not Matter cease to be Matter ?

Sri Aurobindo : Why ?

Disciple : Because certain laws define the nature of Matter.

Sri Aurobindo : What do you mean by laws ? What you call laws are mere habits. If you change your habits you still remain yourself.

Disciple : Can a few persons by their Sadhana change the laws of the material world ?

Sri Aurobindo : We do not intend to change the external material being. Only, in certain cases where the man is open to the Higher Power, this change would take place and not in everybody's case. Its success would not mean success for all and equally for all.

Disciple : Is the attitude of humanity as a whole a factor for success or failure in the effort ?

Sri Aurobindo : Of course, it does count for something, but it does not radically affect the issue.

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Disciple : What is the difference between the physical mind and the material mind ?

Sri Aurobindo : The material mind is a part of the physical

Disciple : What is the physical?

Sri Aurobindo : As I have not got the same inspiration of the subject, I shall ask X. to explain it {a pause).

I spoke about four things in the physical : (1) physical mind, (2) Physical Vital, (3) Matter proper and (4) The Supermind in the physical.

The "physical mind" is, so to say, that end of mental being which comes in contact with the physical world. It is mind limited by matter, working without the help of ideas, looking only to the physical aspect of the world and taking things as they are. It does not go beyond that view. It depends upon the evidence and know­ledge of the physical plane or the knowledge of the exter­nal world, it depends upon the evidence of the senses.

The "physical vital" is life limited by the material body, – the life-force bound up in matter. It is life moving in the nervous system. It cannot exist apart from the material body. It is quite different from the vital being proper with its relative freedom. It is life subject to the laws of matter. There is a tremendous power in matter also, but that is not life-force. Life-force is quite apart from the material world. It exists by itself and for itself and does not limit itself down to the material conditions. To the vital being, nothing, however fanciful and even idiotic, seems impossible. That is the grandeur of the vital being. When Napoleon said, "Nothing is impossible, erase the word 'impossible' from the dictionary", it was the vital being that was speaking through him. And it is true that the vital plane does not admit anything as impos­sible. It does not reject the higher possibilities as the material plane does.

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Then comes the material (world) proper. It is what the Europeans call the "Inconscient". But this matter which they say is "Inconscient" has a tremendous force behind it. In fact it would be the decisive factor in this effort. If it can't be done this time, it has to be done some day, – at some other time.

Disciple : It is apparent that there is great energy in matter.

Disciple : Matter and energy are one.

Sri Aurobindo : That is only an aspect of it which the Scientist knows.

Disciple : If an atom were broken up, so much energy would be liberated that some scientists say it can blow up the whole world. And merely changing the position of the atoms in a substance, the properties of the sub­stance entirely change. Is this energy you speak of in matter a form of the same that the scientists speak of?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. What they know is only one aspect of it. For it is not merely force but has a consciousness of its own, also it can accept and reject things.

The material is dull, inconscient.  It does not want to change. It does not want to establish any­thing. It is the same under all the material conditions, obeying the laws of matter. Even up till now in the process of evolution nature has taken thousands and thousands of years to effect this little change in matter. And even then it has been effected always by some pres­sure from above, i.e. from the mental or the vital planes, but not by Matter's own inherent power or strength or consent.

When the vital began to press on the physical (material) it could not carry out its ideas of possibilities and impossibilities there.  It established a kind of understanding (compromise) with matter and it had to accept the limitations of material life.

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Disciple : You said that to overcome the resistance of the material plane is possible if one can open a direct connection with the plane of the Gods. I& there a method of attaining to that plane or does it come of its own accord or is it done for one by the Higher Power ?

Sri Aurobindo : You have to get rid of the European mentality in you for that. All of you are semi-demi Europeans in your mentality.

It requires a definite decision to go beyond the mind and giving up human ways of looking at things. You must avoid the two opposite mistakes of accepting the vital powers as true gods and of being bound by the materialistic attitude.

Disciple : But you said that all decisions are taken Above already before they are accomplished here in this world.

Sri Aurobindo : Long before they occur here.

Disciple : Then the decision as to whether the Truth is going to succeed on the material plane or not must have already been made ?

Sri Aurobindo : It may be. But it may not be made known to you. Even if you know it, you have to work in the plane of ignorance. Who can say ? We do not know.

Disciple : It will lose all the interest if the decision were known beforehand.

Sri Aurobindo : Ignorance is bliss.

Disciple : The first person plural may not know, but I am asking about the first person singular.

Disciple : If the decision is there, then it is also decided; whether it will succeed this time or not.

Sri Aurobindo : Decision where ?

Disciple : There (above).

Sri Aurobindo : I can say because I know the decision there, and there is not the slightest shadow of doubt that it

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will one day succeed ; but the question is whether it will succeed through us and our endeavours.

Disciple : If it does not succeed this time, will the Light retire ?

Sri  Aurobindo : It may retire or it may wait. The question is whether ; the physical plane is ready to accept the light. Each time up till now it has not accepted the Truth when it came.

Disciple : What do you mean by saying that the European mind is materialistic ?

Sri Aurobindo : We mean by the European materialism the attitude that takes matter as the fundamental basis of evolution and the impossibility of accepting what it is not accustomed to.

I am not running down the European mind. It is fine in its own way, but we are trying to effect a decisive change in the physical being. The opposite mistake is also made by those Europeans, who have left the materialistic formula binding down the mind to the acceptance of the laws of the physical being as final, the mistake of accepting the vital powers as the true gods. For example, the people who do psychic research, mediumistic experiments, automatic writing, spirit communication etc. are the people.

Disciple : Do you mean to say that the physical laws also will be changed ?

Sri Aurobindo : What do you mean by a law ? What are called laws are mere habits of the physical being, as I have already told you.

Disciple : Will the human body be obliged to change ?

Sri Aurobindo : It is not necessary that it should change. It would involve a change in the possibilities and capa­cities of functions of the physical being. It would not mean a change in the universal physical. It would take place only in the case of persons who are open

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to the Higher Power. Of course, it would be a miracle if the impenetrable were penetrated.  

Disciple : Discoveries of science are not less miraculous to-day.

Sri Aurobindo : It is the material mind that requires the miracles. It believes in the miracles of the past but not in those of the future. It is satisfied when the miracle has become habitual.

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