I went out from Pondicherry in 1947 when India was on the eve of securing her partitioned freedom. On my return-journey in the month of July 1947, I became conscious of the fact that it was my return to a place where I had passed nearly twenty-five years at a stretch. The memory of my first visit in 1918 awoke in me all the old impressions vividly. I saw then that even at that early period Sri Aurobindo had been for me the embodiment of the Supreme Consciousness. I began to search mentally for the exact time-moment when I had come to know him. Travelling far into the past I found it was in 1914 when I read a notice in the Bombay Chronicle about the publication of a monthly magazine – the Arya – from Pondicherry by Sri Aurobindo. I hastened to register my name in advance. In those days of political storms, to avoid the suspicion of the college authorities and the police, I had ordered the magazine to be delivered to an address outside the college. Sri Aurobindo then appeared to me to be the personification of the ideal of the life divine which he so ably put before humanity in the Arya.

But the question “why did I order the Arya?” remained.

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On trying to find an answer I found that I had known him before the appearance of the Arya.

The Congress broke up at Surat in 1907. Sri Aurobindo had played a prominent part in that historical session. From Surat he came to Baroda, and at Vankaner Theatre and at Prof, Manik Rao's old gymnasium in Dandia Bazar he delivered several speeches which not only took the audience by storm but changed entirely the course of many lives. I also heard him without understanding everything that was spoken. But ever since I had seen him I had got the constant feeling that he was one known to me, and so my mind could not fix the exact time moment when I knew him. It is certain that the connection seemed to begin with the great tidal wave of the national movement in the political life of India; but I think it was only the apparent beginning. The years between 1903 and 1910 were those of unprecedented awakening and revolution. The generations that followed also witnessed two or three powerful floods of the national movement. But the very first onrush of the newly awakened national consciousness of India was unique. That tidal wave in its initial onrush defined the goal of India's political ideal – anindependent republic. Alternating movement of ebb and flow in the national movement followed till in 1947 the goal was reached. The lives of leaders and workers, who rode, willingly and with delight on the dangerous crest of the tidal wave, underwent great transformations. Our small group in Gujarat got its goal fixed – the winning of undiluted freedom for India.

All the energies of the leaders were taken up by the freedom movement. Only a few among them attempted to see beyond the horizon of political freedom – some ideal of human perfection; for, after all, freedom is not the ultimate goal but a condition for the expression of the cultural Spirit of India. In Swami Shraddhananda, Pandit Madanmohan Malavia, Tagore and Mahatma Gandhi – to name

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some leaders – we see the double aspect of the inspiration. Among all the visions of perfection of the human Spirit on earth, I found the synthetic and integral vision of Sri Aurobindo the most rational and the most satisfying. It meets the need of the individual and collective life of man today. It is the international form of the fundamental elements of Indian culture. It is, as Dr. S. K. Maitra says, the message which holds out hope in a world of despair.

This aspect of Sri Aurobindo’s vision attracted me as much as the natural affinity which I had felt on seeing him. I found on making a serious study of the Arya that it led me to very rational conclusions with regard to the solutions of the deepest problems of life. I opened correspondence with him and in 1916, with his permission, began to translate the Arya into Gujarati.

But, though I had seen him from a distance and felt an unaccountable familiarity with him, still I had not yet met him personally. When the question of putting into execution the revolutionary plan, which Sri Aurobindo had given to my brother – the late C. B. Purani – at Baroda in 1907, arose, I thought it better to obtain Sri Aurobindo consent to it. Barindra, his brother, had given the formula for preparing bombs to my brother, and I was also very impatient to begin the work. But still we thought it necessary to consult the great leader who had given us the inspiration, as the lives of many young men were involved in the plan.

I had an introduction to Sj. V. V. S. Aiyar who was then staying at Pondicherry. It was in December 1918 that I reached Pondicherry. I did not stay long with Mr. Aiyar. I took up my bundle of books – mainly the Arya – and went to No. 41 Rue Francois Martin, the Arya office, which was alsoSri Aurobindo residence. The house looked a little queer, – on the right side, as one entered, were a few plantain trees and by their side a heap of broken tiles. On the left, at the edge of the open courtyard, four doors

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giving entrance to four rooms were seen. The verandah outside was wide. It was about 8 in the morning. The time for meeting Sri Aurobindo was fixed at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I waited all the time in the house, occasionally chatting with the two inmates who were there.

Sri Aurobindo was sitting in a wooden chair behind a small table covered with an indigo-blue cloth in the verandah upstairs when I went up to meet him. I felt a spiritual light surrounding his face. His look was penetrating. He had known me by my correspondence. I reminded him about my brother having met him at Baroda; he had not forgotten him. Then I informed him that our group was now ready to start revolutionary activity. It had taken us about eleven years to get organised.

Sri Aurobindo remained silent for some time. Then he put me questions about my sadhana – spiritual practice. I described my efforts and added : "Sadhana is all right, but it is difficult to concentrate on it so long as India is not free."

"Perhaps it may not be necessary to resort to revolutionary activity to free India," he said.

"But without that how is the British Government to go from India?" I asked him.

"That is another question; but if India can be free without revolutionary activity, whyshould you execute the plan? It is better to concentrate on yoga – the spiritual practice, he replied.

"But India is a land that has sadhana in its blood. When India is free, I believe, thousands will devote themselves to yoga. But in the world of to-day who will listen to the truth from, or spirituality of, slaves?" I asked him.

He replied : India has already decided to win freedom and so there will certainly be found leaders and men to work

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for that goal. But all are not called to yoga. So when you have the call, is it not better to concentrate upon it? If you want to carry out the revolutionary programme you are free to do it, but I cannot give my consent to it."

"But it was you who gave us the inspiration and the start for revolutionary activity. Why do you now refuse to give your consent to its execution?" I asked.

"Because I have done the work and I know its difficulties. Young men come forward to join the movement, driven by idealism and enthusiasm. But these elements do not last long. It becomes very difficult to observe and extract discipline. Small groups begin to form within the organisation,rivalriesgrowbetweengroups and even between individuals. There is competition for leadership. The agents of the Government generally manage to join these organisations from the very beginning. And so the organisations are unable to .act effectively. Sometimes they sink so low as to quarrel even for money," he said calmly.

But even supposing that I grant sadhana to be of greater importance, and even intellectually understand that I should concentrate upon it, – my difficulty is that I feel intensely that I must do something for the freedom of India. I have been unable to sleep soundly for the last two years and a half. I can remain quiet if I make a very strong effort. But the concentration of my whole being turns towards India's freedom. It is difficult for me to sleep till that is secured".

Sri Aurobindo remained silent for two or three minutes. It was a long pause. Then he said: "Suppose an assurance is given to you that India will be free?”

"Who can give such an assurance?" I could feel the echo of doubt and challenge in my own question.

Again he remained silent for three or four minutes then he looked at me and added

"Suppose I give you the assurance?’

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I paused for a moment, considered the question with myself and said: If you give the assurance. I can accept it."'

"Then I give you the assurance that India will be free, he said in a serious tone.

My work was over – the purpose of my visit to Pondicherry was served. My personal question and the problem of our group was solved! I then conveyed to him the message of Sj. K. G. Deshpande from Baroda. I told him that financial help could be arranged from Baroda, if necessary, to which he replied, "At present what is required comes from Bengal, especially from Chandernagore. Sothere is no need."

When the talk turned to Prof. D. L. Purohit of Baroda Sri Aurobindo recounted the incident of his visit to Pondicherry where he had come to inquire into the relation between the Church and the State. He had paid a courtesy call on Sri Aurobindo as he had known him at Baroda. This had resulted in his resignation from Baroda State service on account of the pressure of the British Residency. I conveyed to Sri Aurobindo the good news that after his resignation Mr. Purohit had started practice as a lawyer and had been quite successful, earning more than the pay he had been getting as a professor.

It was time for me to leave. The question of Indian freedom again arose in my mind, and at the time of taking leave, after I had got up to depart, I could not repress the question – it was a question of very life for me : "Are you quite sure that India will be free?"

I did not, at that time, realise the full import of my query. I wanted a guarantee, and though the assurance had been given my doubts had not completely disappeared.

Sri Aurobindo became very serious. The yogi in him came forward; his gaze was fixed at the sky that could be seen beyond the window. Then he looked at me and putting his fist on the table he said :

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"You can take it from me, it is as certain as the rising of the sun tomorrow. The decree has already gone forth; it may not be long in coming.

I bowed down to him. That day I was able to sleep soundly in the train after more than two years. And in my mind was fixed for ever the picture of that scene : two of us standing near the small table, my earnest question, that upward gaze, and that quiet and firm voice with power in it to shake the world, that firm fist planted on the table, – the symbol of self-confidence of the divine Truth. There may be rank Kaliyuga, the Iron Age, in the whole world but it is the great good fortune of India that she has sons who know the Truth and have the unshakable faith in it, and can risk their lives for its sake. In this significant fact is contained the divine destiny of India and of the world.

After meeting Sri Aurobindo I was quite relieved of the great strain that was upon me. Now that I felt Indian freedom to be a certainty, I could participate in public movements with equanimity and with a truer spiritual attitude. I got some experiences also which confirmed my faith in Sri Aurobindo’s path. I got the confident faith in a divine Power that is beyond time and space and that can and does work in the world. I came to know that any man with a sincere aspiration for it can come in contact with that Power.

There were people who thought that Sri Aurobindo had retired from life, that he did not take any interest in the world and its affairs. These ideas never troubled me. On the contrary, I felt that his work was of tremendous significance for humanity and its future. In fact, the dynamic aspect of his spirituality, his insistence on life as a field for the manifestation of the Spirit, and his great synthesis added to the attraction I had already felt. To me he appeared

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as the spiritual Sun in modern times shedding his light on mankind from the height of his consciousness, and Pondicherry where he lived was a place of pilgrimage.

Second meeting in 1921

The second time I met Sri Aurobindo was in 1921, when there was a greater familiarity. Having, come for a short stay, I remained eleven days on Sri Aurobindo's asking me to prolong my stay. During my journey from Madras to Pondicherry I was enchanted by the natural scenery – the vast stretches of green paddy fields. But Pondicherry as a city was lethargic, with a colonial atmosphere – an exhibition of the worst elements of European and Indian culture. The market was dirty and stinking and the people had no idea of sanitation. The sea-beach was made filthy by them. Smuggling was the main business.

But the greatest surprise of my visit in 1921 was the "darshan" of Sri Aurobindo. During the interval of two years his body had undergone a transformation which could only be described as miraculous. In 1918 the colour of the body was like that of an ordinary Bengali – rather dark - though there was lustre on the face and the gaze was penetrating. On going upstairs to see him (in the same house) I found his cheeks wore an apple-pink colour and the whole body glowed with a soft creamy white light. So great and unexpected was the change that I could not help exclaiming:

"What has happened to you?"

Instead of giving a direct reply he parried the question, as I had grown a beard: "And what has happened to you?”

But afterwards in the course of talk he explained to me that when the Higher Consciousness, after descending to the mental level, comes down to the vital and even

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below the vital, then a transformation takes place in the nervous and even in the physical being. He asked me to join the meditation in the afternoon and also the evening sittings.

This time I saw the Mother for the first time. She was standing near the staircase when Sri Aurobindo was going upstairs after lunch. Such unearthly beauty I had never seen – she appeared to be about 20 whereas she was more than 37 years old.

I found the atmosphere of the Ashram tense. The Mother and Datta, i. e. Miss Hodgson, had come to stay in No. 41 Rue Francois Martin. The house had undergone a great change. There was a clean garden in the open courtyard; every room had simple and decent furniture, – a mat, a chair and a small table. There was an air of tidiness and order. This was, no doubt, the effect of Mother's presence. But yet the atmosphere was tense because Sri Aurobindo and the Mother were engaged in fighting with forces of the vital plane.

Only a few days before my arrival a dismissed cook had managed to get stones hurled into Sri Aurobindo’s house through the agency of a Mohammedan occultist. This was the topic of excited talk when I was at Pondicherry. Upendranath Banerjee, who hardly believed in the possibility of such occult phenomena, had gone to the terrace with a lantern and a lathi to find the culprit. I heard the whole story from Upen himself. The stone-falling ended when the Mother took the matter in hand and removed the servant-boy, who was the medium, to another house. (The account of this is already given in the “Life of Sri Aurobindo” by A.B. Purani)

The Prabartak Sangh was started at Chandernagore by Motilal Roy and others under the inspiration of

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Sri Aurobindo. In the Yoga of Sri Aurobindo life is accepted as the field for the manifestation of the Divine. Its main aim is not liberation merely but the manifestation of divine perfection. In his vision not only the individual but the collectivity also is a term of the Divine. Acceptance of life includes the collective life.

There is a deeper reason for accepting life. In his vision of the Reality Sri Aurobindo shows the rationality and the inevitability of an ascent by man to a higher consciousness than Mind. This ascent to the Higher Consciousness must lead to its descent in man. If the new element, the Supermind, is to become a permanent part of the earth-consciousness, then not only should it descend into the lowest plane of physical consciousness – the subconscient – but it must become a part of the collective consciousness on earth too.

I asked him many questions about the organisation of a collective life based on spiritual aspiration.

On the last day of my stay of eleven days I met Sri Aurobindo between 3 and 4 in the afternoon. The main topic was sadhana.

When I got up to take leave I asked him:

"What are you waiting for?" I put the question because it was clear to me that he had been constantly living in the Higher Consciousness. "It is true," he said, "that the Divine Consciousness has descended but it has not yet descended into the physical being. So long as that is not done the work cannot be said to be accomplished."

I bowed down to him. When I got up to look at his face, I found he had already gone to the entrance of his room and, through the one door, I saw him turning his face towards me with a smile. I felt a great elation when I boarded the train: for, here was a guide who had already attained the Divine Consciousness, was conscious about it

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and yet whose detachment and discrimination were so perfect, whose sincerity so profound, that he knew what had still to be attained and could go on unobtrusively doing his hard work for mankind. External forms had a secondary place in his scale of values. In an effort so great is embodied some divine inspiration; to be called to such an ideal was itself the greatest good fortune.

The freedom of India, about which he had assured me, came, and I was fortunate to live to see it arrive on his own auspicious birthday, the 15th of August 1947. I had been out and now it was to Pondicherry that I was returning.

I had lived there for nearly a generation but had never felt the Pondicherry Ashram as something fixed and unchanging. I realised this most strongly on the day I was returning to it. Pondicherry has always been to me the symbol of a great experiment, of a divine ideal. It is marching every hour towards the ultimate goal of man's upward ascent to the Divine. Not a city but a spiritual laboratory, a collective being with a daily changing horizon yet pursuing a fixed distant objective, a place fixed to the outer view but constantly moving – Pondicherry to me is always like the Arab's tent.

1920 (Nov. or Dec.?)

Interview with a Disciple

Disciple : What would be the nature of the spiritual commune?

Sri Aurobindo : It would be composed of those who intend to do sadhana.

Disciple : Would it be established on economics as the central basis?

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Sri Aurobindo : No, it would not be based merely on economics

Disciple : Who would be admitted into the commune and what would be the method of selection?

Sri Aurobindo : Those who have taken to sadhana; they are already united though unconsciously.

Disciple : Would it be necessary for members to have some intellectual work in the commune?

Sri Aurobindo : There must be three to four hours' intellectual work everyday. The members must be able to follow what the Yoga is and its processes.

Disciple : What would be the place of personal demand in such a commune?

Sri Aurobindo : Personal demand must not remain; everything would be intended for all. But before one joins it one must make sure of his spiritual aspiration.

Disciple : Will the collective organisation be economically self sufficient?

Sri Aurobindo : No. It will have to produce more things because all its needs cannot be supplied by itself. It will have, therefore to keep connection with the capitalist world. Agriculture is the mainstay. The community must try to stand on its own feet for food.

1920 (Nov. or Dec.?)

Interview with Sarala Devi chowdhurani

Sarala Devi came to Pondicherry to meet Sri Aurobindo. It was evident she wanted to ascertain his future programme and his views on current politics. She met him for two days.

As she came up to meet him at the fixed time, 4-30 p. m. Sri Aurobindo got up from his chair to greet her. Both greeted each other with folded hands. After formal exchanges Sarala Devi began:

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Saraladevi : Is it true that you are against the non-cooperation movement?

Sri Aurobindo : I am not against it; the train has arrived, it must be allowed to run its own course. The only thing I feel is that there is great need of solidifying the national will for freedom into stern action.

Sarala Devi : Non-cooperation has declared waragainst imperialism.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, it has, but I am afraid it is done without proper ammunition, and mobilisation and organisation of the available forces.

Sarala Devi : Why don't you come out and try to run your own train ?

Sri Aurobindo : I must first prepare the rails and lay them down, then only can I get the train to arrive.

Sarala Devi : But you must do something, should you not ?

Sn Aurobindo : As for myself, I have a personal programme. But if I was in politics, even then I would have taken another stand. I would first be sure of my ground before I fought the government.

Sarala Devi : Don't you think that sufficient work has been done in the country to start the fight?

Sri Aurobindo : Uptil now only waves of emotion and a certain all round awakening have come. But the force which could stand the strain when the government would put forth its force in full vigour is still not there.

What is needed is more organisation of the national will. It is no use emotional waves rising and spreading, then going down. Our leaders need not go on lecturing. What we should do is to organise local committees of action throughout the country to carry out any mandate of the central organisation. These local leaders must stay among the people.

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SaralaDevi : But I find many people ridicule non-cooperation. Rabi Babu¹ is choked by it. What is your frank personal opinion?

Sri Aurobindo : We have qualified sympathy with the movement; sympathy is there because we have the same objective; it is qualified because we feel that the basis is not sound. The Punjab martial-law and atrocities, the Khilafat are there, and non-cooperation is based on those wrongs. The students from Madras came here the other day and told me they wanted to non-cooperate because the government was unjust. Asked whether they would put up with a just British government they could not reply.

India must want freedom because of herself, because of her own Spirit. I would very much like India to find her own Swaraj and then, like Ireland, to work out her salvation even with violence – preferably without violence. Our basis must be broader than that of mere opposition to the British government. All the time our eyes are turned to the British and their actions. We must look to ourselves irrespectively of them and having found our own nationhood make it free.

+ + +

9–4–1923

A vistor from Madras to Pondicherry came in connection with non-cooperation work and met Sri Aurobindo.

Question : Dr. Bhagwandas and some others are trying to spiritualise politics – particularly the western institutions in our politics, and there is the village organisation work also. What is your opinion in this matter?

Sri Aurobindo : These are two things which must be kept apart. There are first those who want to work for political

____________________

¹ Rabindranath Tagore

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freedom and they fix that as their final goal. Secondly, there are those who want to organise the future life of the community in India.

These two require different kinds of organisations and they must be allowed to work with the utmost rapidity. It goes without saying that without organisation there can be no success in any work. But the political worker’s path is straight. He need not go in for constructive work. He has to organise in the village something like the Peasant organisations and associations in Ireland. When they are sufficiently well-organised thenthey can throw their weight into politics. The second path is much harder and longer and the worker's method also will be different. If he succeeds he is one of those who win the highest victory.

Of late, in some quarters, too much weight is being put upon village-work. I know in India it is a very very important work to do. But I do not like people trying to picture future India as a mass of villages only. The village has a lot of life-problems and the villagers must be rescued from their living death. But they cannot be leaders of thought

Question : Don't you think that some kind of political organisation and work is necessary in the villages and that the village also can be a centre of culture and creative activity?

Sri Aurobindo : Organisation and work in villages are certainly necessary, but I doubt very much whether the village could be a creative centre. At least in the past it was not, so far as we can see. In the past there were village-communities but they do not seem to have been creative. The reason is that the man in the village has his view of life bound up with a small portion of land and things so that he cannot easily breathe that liberal and free air which is necessary for great creation. That is why leaders always came from the cities even in ancient times.

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I do not think that the villages in India, or anywhere in the world, are able to rule even in democracy. For creation a certain leisure and mental development are wanted.

Question : Do you think that in Russia what they have attempted is real democracy?

Sri Aurobindo : In Europe they have always tried for democracy. Real democracy has always failed, and failed because it is against human nature. There are certain men who are bound to govern. One must be prepared to face facts. Even in the democracies those men manage to rule and one knows too well the villagers do not. Only, those people govern in their name, and it sometimes makes them more free and reckless. In Russia – one does not know the exact situation – the attempt was for creating real rule of the people, i.e. of the village. You see in what it has ended? It has established again an oligarchy of the Lenin-party. One may even ask : What has Russia created? It has tried to destroy capital and thus tried to destroy and perhaps succeeded in destroying city life. It is trying mechanically to equalise men. But it is not a success. The Western social life rests on interests and rights. It depends upon the vitalistic existence of men which is largely governed by his rational mind helped by scientific inventions. Reason gives man the rigid methods of classification and mental construction and theory to justify his interests and rights, and science gives him the required efficiency, force and power. Thus he is sure of his goal. But one may say that, though organised and effective, European life is not organic. The view that it takes of man is a very imperfect view, and the ideal it sets before man an incomplete ideal. That is why you find there class-war and struggle for rights governed by the rational intellect. European life is very powerful because it can put the whole force of its life at once

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in operation by a coordination of all its members. In old times the ideal was different. They – the ancients – based their society on the structure of religion. I do not mean narrow religion but the highest law of our being. The whole social fabric was built up to fulfil that purpose. There was no talk in those days of individual liberty in the present sense of the term. But there was absolute communal liberty. Every community was completely free to develop its own religion – the law of its being. Even the selection of the line was a matter of free choice for the individual.

I do not believe that because a man is governed by another man, or one class by another class, there is always oppression; for instance, the Brahmins never ruled but they were never oppressed by others rather they oppressed other people. The government becomes useless and bad when one class or one nation keeps another down and governs it for its own benefit and does not allow the class or nation to follow its own Dharma – the law of its being.

In ancient times each community had its own Dharma and within itself it was independent. Every village, every city had its own organisation quite free from all political control and within that every individual was free – free to change and take up another line for his development. But all this was not put into a definite political unit. There were, of course attempts at that kind of expression of life but they were only partially successful. The whole community in India was a very big one and the community-culture based on Dharma was not thrown into a kind of organisation which would resist external aggression; and ultimately we were brought to the present stage.

Now the problem is how to organise the future life of the country. I myself am a communist in a certain sense

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but I cannot agree with the Russian method. One may ask : after all what has Russia created? Even among our present workers in India there is a lack of that definite idea as to what they are about and what kind of thing they want. That is the reason why men like Dr. Bhagwandas propose some mental constructions like asking men to go in for politics after 50 years age and so on. That does not seem to me to be the correct method, and I believe whoever pursues it will encounter complete failure.

Question : Anything would be better than the present condition.

Sri Aurobindo : That is of course the common ground of agreement.

11–4–1923

An interview with a Sadhak

Sri Aurobindo today met X from Madras. X asked him to give him the Yoga.

Sri Aurobindo : This is a very difficult path and therefore demands complete surrender and one-pointed concentration. One must be after the Truth alone. One has to be prepared to leave ideals of altruism, patriotism and even the aspiration for personal liberation and follow the Yoga for the sake of the Divine alone. Aspiration must be firm but it must not be only an intellectual aspiration, it must be of the inmost soul. It, then, means a call from Above. One has to take an irrevocable decision before he begins the Yoga. Such a decision may take time to arrive but it is better to wait till then.

Disciple : I have decided to take up the yoga.

Sri Aurobindo : There are so many difficulties in this path – this Yoga is not meant for all. At one time I had the idea that

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this yoga is for humanity, but now the idea is changed. This Yoga is for the Divine, for God. Man has first to attain the Truth-Consciousness and leave the salvation of mankind to that consciousness. This does not mean that one has to abandon Life in this Yoga. My mission in life is to bring down the Supermind into Mind, Life and Body. Formerly I did not care if the sadhaka accepted other influences, but now I have decided to take only those who will admit the influence of this Yoga exclusively.

Disciple : What should be the Sadhaka's attitude with regard to physical illness?

Sri Aurobindo : He must first of all remain completely detached in the vital being and in the mind. The illness is the result of the working of the forces of Nature. He must use his will to reject the illness and one's will must be used as a representative of the Divine Will. When the Divine Will descends into the Adhara then it works no longer indirectly through the Sadhak's will but directly and removes the illness. When the psychic being awakens then it is able to perceive the influence of the disease even before it enters the body. Not only does one perceive it, but one knows which organ is going to be attacked and one can keep off the attack with the help of the Higher Power.

28–4–1923

A Sadhak's interview :

Sri Aurobindo generally used to see his disciples and visitors from outside, who came with the express purpose of seeing him, between 9 and 11 in the morning. He used to glance at the daily paper – The Hindu – and then grant interviews. These were very informal and often intimate in the sense that the disciple would relate his experiences

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and difficulties, and visitors from outside generally sought his advice on spiritual matters or individual guidance in some public activity.

One such interview is given here to illustrate how he dealt with the questions of Sadhana, – spiritual practice.

Disciple : I have, at present, a very strong impulse to realise the infinite Transcendent Shakti. I want to know whether it is safer to leave the Sadhana to the Universal or to the Divine?

Sri Aurobindo : The Transcendent and the Universal Powers are not always exclusive of each other; they are almost mutual: when the Transcendent is realised in Mind it is the Universal. One has to have that realisation also.

Disciple : What is the distinction between the two ?

Sri Aurobindo : The Universal is full of all sorts of things, – true as well as false, good as well as bad, both divine and undivine. One has to get the knowledge and distinguish between them. It is not safe to open oneself to the Universal before one has the power of discrimination, because all kinds of ideas, forces, impulses, even Rākshasic and Paishāchic rush into him. There are schools of Yoga that consider this conditions as "freedom" or Mukti and they also take pleasure in the “Universal manifestation”, as they call it. But that is not perfection. Perfection only comes when the Transcendental Power manifests itself in human life, when the Infinite manifests itself in the finite.

Disciple : Cannot those who attain the Universal manifest perfection?

Sri Aurobindo : Generally, these are men who want to escape into the Universal – that is, into the Infinite, – Satchidananda, – on the mental plane. The Universal, as I told you, is full of all kinds of things, good and bad.

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The Sadhaks, who enter into it and look upon it as their goal, accept whatever comes from it and, sometimes, behave in life with supreme indifference to morality. But their being is not transformed. Among, our known Sadhaks – K opened himself to the Universal, could not distinguish, or rather refused to distinguish and at the end went mad. Or take the case of L, an outsider, who was trying to remain in the Universal consciousness with the vital being full of all kinds of impurities. That is not perfection.

When the Divine Power – the Supramental Shakti – works She establishes harmony between the various instruments of nature and also harmony in the whole of our life. R and people like him feel that such a harmonisation of the being is a limitation. But it is not a limitation – because that action is in keeping with the truth of our being and our becoming.

Disciple : Is the Transcendent Power the same as the Supramental Power ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, when that Power awakens, one knows not only the truth of being but also that of manifestation. There is inherent harmony on that plane between Truth knowledge and Truth-action.

Disciple : Manifestation may mean limitation; is that so?

Sri Aurobindo : No human manifestation can be illimitable or unlimited. But the manifestation in the limited should reflect the Transcendent Power. Human manifestation has a truth behind it and the Supermind shows the truth to be manifested. It is, really speaking, the clue to perfection.

Disciple : I feel a sense of pressure when the Power descends, particularly in the head.

Sn Aurobindo : One must get rid of the sense of pressure. The head indicates the seat of mind and gradually the Power should be made to descend below. When it descends below then it is not felt as pressure but as power which nothing can destroy. The whole being, down to

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the cells of body, has to be prepared to receive the Power when it descends

8–8–1923

Interview with V:

V : I am going back to my place and will try to practise the yoga there. I want to know whether I ought to cut myself away from all public activity.

Sri Aurobindo : There is no general rule that all who practise yoga should give up all external work. Do you think that the work would stop if you gave it up?

V : There are one or two friends and co-workers to whom I can entrust the work; but even then it would require two or three hours of my attention.

Sri Aurobindo : Well, there are two or three considerations. First of all the necessity of giving up work depends on the demand from within. In the process of Sadhana there comes a stage when even two hours' attention is felt as a disturbance; then that work has to be given up. Or, if one finds that it is not the work that one has to do, then one has to give it up. So long as such an intense state of Sadhana does not come there is no harm in continuing the work.

V : I have started an organisation for the spread of our literature in my part of the country. What is your advice with regard to it?

Sri Aurobindo : I am neither for it nor against it in the intellectual sense. In this yoga, external action is not to be abandoned. Sometimes action has to be done.

But ordinarily, we have not to do philanthropic work from thesame motives. Philanthropy has an egoistic motive, however high it may be. We have to look beyond. For instance, we need not start schools

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for the Depressed Classes in order to serve humanity. We have to work as a sacrifice to God and we have therefore to go beyond mental ideals and constructions. When men begin work with these mental or ethical motives, they find them to be true and therefore they are not willing to leave them behind and go beyond. We have to take up the work from the yogic point of view. For example, it is necessary to spread our literature because it spreads the new thought. Some men may receive it correctly and some incorrectly. A movement is set up in the universal mental plane. So also in social work the whole frame is shaken by the new thought and inasmuch as it moves men out of the old groove it is useful. But we have to act from the inner motives.

9–8–1923

Interview with G :

G : How to do action without desire? How can one be free from action and egoism?

Sri Aurobindo : The word 'egoism' is used in a very limited sense in English, it means anything for the self. That which is not done for the self is regarded as unegoistic. But that is not so in yoga. One can do all unselfish actions and have full egoism in him. He will have the egoism of the doer. 'Nishkam Karma' means first desirelessness. You have to first establish that condition in which good or bad desires are absent. You must realise that it is the power of God – his Shakti – that does the work in reality. All work, good and bad, in you and in the world is her work.

G : If a man takes up that attitude he may go on indiscriminately doing good or bad actions and say that God is doing them.

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Sri Aurobindo : He may say so but he will get the return in proportion to the sense of egoism he puts into it.

G : What about the actions done in the past ?

Sri Aurobindo : They are also in the hands of the Shakti – the divine Power. She knows what fruit to give and what not. When that kind of desirelessness is established you have to go on offering all your actions as a sacrifice to God. You must realise that it is the Shakti that does the work in yourself and She offers the same as a sacrifice to the Lord. The more desirelessness in the action, the purer the offering.

The action and the fruit of action both belong to God, not to us. There should be no insistence on the fruit of good or unselfish action. When this is done then everything becomes easy.

G : How will a man act when he has no impulse of desire ?

Sri Aurobindo : When you have realised desirelessness then there will be no impulse of either good or bad desire in .yourself. Then there will be an impulsion from the Shakti – the divine Power – and She takes up the work. Slowly the whole of your being opens and everything comes from Above. We merely become the instrument.

G : But how to distinguish between the work that the Shakti impels and that which is prompted by our lower self?

Sri Aurobindo : In order to distinguish the work intended by the Shakti and that dictated by the lower nature you have to be very careful. You must develop the power of looking within. When you look within you must first realise yourself as the Purusha – that is to say, the being quite separate from the movements of Prakriti, nature, going on in the Prana (the vital parts), the Chitta, the Mind etc. Any movement that arises there (in Prakriti) has to be rejected and anything that comes from Above has to be accepted. Not only must you separate yourself,

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but the Purusha must become the calm and passive witness. Thus there will be a portion in yourself which will be quiet, unaffected by anything in Prakriti. The calm of the Drashta – witness – then extends to the nature and then nature remains quite unmoved by any disturbance. You can not merely remain unmoved but also, as Anumanta, give the sanction to certain movements of nature and withhold others.

G : Is this the Yoga? No Asanas, no Pranayama !

Sri Aurobindo : It is not so simple as it appears. If there is sincerity in the offering then the help comes from Above. You must also have persistence.

G : It might require the learning which, I am afraid, I have not got.

Sri Aurobindo : Learning is not indispensable. The yoga is done by the Shakti only. You do not know it because you are not aware of the higher movement. You have only to keep the attitude described and be sincere in the offering.

28–9–1923

Instruction about Sadhana to a Disciple :

Disciple : What is the nature of realisation in this yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : In this yoga we want to bring down the Truth-consciousness into the whole being – no part being left out. This can be done by the Higher Power itself. What you have to do is to open yourself to it.

Disciple : As the Higher Power is there why does it not work in all men – consciously?

Sri Aurobindo : Because man, at present, is shut up in his mental being, his vital nature and physical consciousness and their limitations. You have to open yourself. By an opening I mean an aspiration in the heart for the

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coming down of the Power that is above, and a will in the Mind, or above the Mind, open to it.

The first thing this working of the Higher Power does is to establish Shanti – peace – in all the parts of the being and an opening above. This peace is not mere mental Shanti, it is full of power and, whatever action takes place in it, Samata, equality, is its basis and the Shanti and Samata are never disturbed. What come from Above are peace, power and joy. It also brings about changes in various parts of our nature so that they can bear the pressure of the Higher Power.

Knowledgealsoprogressivelydevelopsshowing all in our being that is to be thrown out and what is to be retained. In fact, knowledge and guidance both come and you have constantly to consent to the guidance. The progress may be more in one direction than in another. But it is the Higher Power that works. The rest is a matter of experience and the movement of the Shakti.

23–12-1923

interview with a Sadhak – R . – a professor:

Sri Aurobindo : What is your idea of yoga ?

Sadhaka : I have come to learn that from you.

Sri Aurobindo : That is not possible. How can you undertake to go in for it if you have no idea about it?

Sadhaka : I need the peace of mind which would be the first result of this yoga. Secondly, I want to know what I should do in my life. I have read Yoga and its Objects and I would like to attain the ideal set forth in it.

Sri Aurobindo : The peace, of course, is the first condition of any yoga and it must not be only mental peace. It must be deeper still, it must pervade all the parts of the being and it must descend from Above.

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What is your idea of Kartavyam Karma ?

Sadhaka : It is ‘my duty’ in life.

Sri Aurobindo : Kartavyam Karma does not mean duty. Duty is a western notion. It is a wrong interpretation of the text of the Gita. It means that which should be done, that which is ordained.

It is possible to know the Kartavya Karma in that sense, if one can rise to something beyond Mind. You spoke of Yoga and its Objects. It was written at a time when my Sadhana had not reached its perfection. It marks a certain stage of my development. But it is not complete. I am not following the idea that is in it.

At present what I am doing is the Supramental yoga. Man, as constituted at present, is a very imperfect manifestation of the Divine – he is very crude. It is so because man is living in an envelope of ignorance – in Mind, Life and Body – so that he is not conscious of the Reality that is beyond Mind. The Supramental Power is above the Mind. What I am trying to do at present is to call down the higher Power to govern Mind, Life and Body. The object of this yoga is not the service of humanity, nor the ordinary perfection of man but the evolution of the Supramental Power in the cyclic evolution of the Spirit in the material universe. What one has to do is to rend the veil – the thick veil – that divides the Mind from the Supermind. That work a man cannot do by himself.

Sadhaka : Then where is the place for the use of will ?

Sri Aurobindo : Well, your will has a place. It is used first of all to remove the lower movements, e.g. desires and thoughts etc. Secondly, it can will for the working of the higher Power by putting a stop to the actions that belong to Mind, Life and Body – i.e. of the ignorant Nature. The first result would be calm much deeper than the mental calm.

Sadhaka : What about the work for humanity?

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Sri Aurobindo : We are not concerned with that at all primarily. What one puts forth generally outside in the form of action is what one internally is. Our first aim is not to work for humanity in the current sense of the term, but to found life on a Higher Consciousness than the present ignorant and limited consciousness of mind, Life and Body. At present, man – I mean the average man – is physical and vital in his nature, using Mind for satisfying his vital being. We want to leave Mind – and intellect – behind and find a Higher Consciousness. One may call it Nirvana, Passive Brahman, Sachchidananda or Higher Power or by any name.

So, our first task is to find God and base life on that Consciousness. In that process what is necessary for humanity will naturally be done. But that is not our direct aim. Ours is a tremendous task. It is an adventure in which one must be prepared to leave behind his desires and passions, intellectual preferences and mental constructions in order to enable the Higher Power to do its work. You have to see whether you can give your consent to the radical transformation that is inevitable.

Sadhaka : Yes, I am prepared for the gamble.

Sri Aurobindo : It is only one minute back that I told you about the Sapramental yoga and how is it that you have come to a decision ? You do not know the hazard. The acceptance of this yoga means a great and decisive step in one's life and you have to give consent to the working of the Higher Power in order to be able to go through. There should be nothing in the mental or the vital being which would come in the way of the higher working.

Sadhaka : I have been trying to prepare myself for the last three years. I wanted to come here three years ago. But I did not consider myself fit for this yoga at that time. So far as I can see, I have no mental idea left except the freedom of my country. There was a time when I would

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have postponed the spiritual life for India's freedom.

Sri Aurobindo : You need not do it now; it is a thing guaranteed. But you cannot make even that a condition for entering this yoga. It is a high adventure, as I told you. It is not like the other yogic systems where you get some touch of the Higher Reality and leave the rest untransformed. My yoga makes demands that have to be met, – it is a radical transition from the present state of human consciousness. We accept life but that does not mean that in this yoga there is no renunciation. It only means we do not annul any of the faculties of the human being. What we put forth is not something mental, vital or physical but that which comes from the Supramental.

Sadhaka : I would do as you suggest; but at present I do not know any working higher than the Mind. What is to be done till then?

Sri Aurobindo : You have to make a choice : the individual is absolutely free in this yoga. I cannot crush your individuality. I mean, I can, but it is not allowed in this yoga. So, the working of the Higher Power depends upon the choice you make.

Sadhaka : But you are there to protect us.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, I can protect you if you have the absolute faith and make the right choice. If you make the wrong choice I cannot protect you. You must know that this is not a simple affair at all. It is not a revolt against the British Government which any one can easily do. It is, in fact, a revolt against the whole universal Nature and so one must think deeply before enrolling oneself with me.

There will be tremendous forces that will attack you and you have constantly to go on making the right choice and giving consent to the working of the Higher Truth and thereby prove your strength.

Ifyou begin this yoga the first result is likely to be a

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feverish internal commotion, asanti, rather than santi, peace, that you are in search of. And when you come to the material plane, – there especially, the odds are almost insurmountable.

I have made my watchword : Victory or Death.

Sadhaka : What is the meaning of coming to the physical and material plane ? Does it mean that when the Supermind comes down to the material plane then the difficulties are very great ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. There even I do not know the result. An indication I have received from within saying that it is going to be. Yet I myself do not know the end of my adventure. Very few in the past have followed this yoga and none has conquered the material plane. That is why it is an adventure into the Unknown. One must have faith and make the right choice.

In the evening Sri Aurobindo referred to this new Sadhaka, saying "His vital being has some strength and also there is a certain psychic capacity in him. But his intellect is not fine and subtle and elastic. He has perhaps intellectual vanity and sense of self-sufficiency which may be a great obstacle in his yoga.”

He was asked to practise the preliminary step of separating Purusha and Prakriti – the witness self and the active nature.

27-12-1923

The same Sadhaka again had an interview with Sri Aurobindo before his departure.

Sri Aurobindo : Have you something to say to me ?

Sadhaka:I have begun to practise the yoga in the way you have asked me to. I find it very congenial and profitable

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Aurobindo : You have to continue it. What you know generally as your self is only the surface being and its superficial workings. What man thinks to be "himself" is only a movement in nature, – a movement in the universal mind, universal life and universal Matter. What you have to do is to separate, or rather detach, yourself from the movements of Nature. You will then find that you are not only watching the universal action of Nature but consenting to it.

The movement of watching that is going on in you is not the separation of the true Purusha, but the Mental Purusha. As the Purusha you can not only watch as the sāksi – witness – but act as the giver of sanction – anumantā. You can stop the movement of Nature that is going on in you.

Sadhaka : Yes. I found I could control my thought or imagination by sheer force of will.

Sri Aurobindo : You have not to suppress the natural movement. That would only mean that it would remain there, or would go deeper in Prakriti – nature – and then rear its head again at some convenient opportunity. What you have to do is to reject the movement, to cast it out of your nature. You can do that by detaching yourself more and more from all movements.

Sadhaka : Where is the seat of the Purusha ?

Sri Aurobindo:Above the head is the true seat of the Purusha.

Sadhaka : Should I try to locate the psychological functions in different centres of the body ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, yoga means growing more and more conscious, Even the movement of the subliminal self must be felt and experienced. The centre of vision – and will – is between the eye-brows. The centre of the Psychic being is in the heart – not in the emotional being but behind it. The vital being is centred in the navel.

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All this is not the real Soul – it is nature. The Soul is deeper within. The direct method of the Supramental yoga would be to know the subliminal or the psychic being and open it to the Higher Power. But it is a drastic method, and if the Adhar is not pure then it would lead to a mixture of Truth and falsehood, of what comes from Above and what comes from below, and such a state is dangerous in certain cases. You need not take up that method but this preparatory practice which is regarded as very high in other yogas. It is really the first essential step in the Supramental yoga.

When you separate the Purusha from Prakriti you experience certain calm. That calm is the Purusha consciousness watching the action of Prakriti – nature. It is what is called the Silent Witness. That calm deepens as you detach yourself more and more from Prakriti. You also feel that it is wide, that it is the Lord. It can stop any movement of nature though its will may not be all at once effective; after a time it must prevail. In order to find this Purusha consciousness you have to reject everything in the lower nature, i.e., desires, feelings and mental ideas.

Sadhaka : Should not we have the desire to practise the yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : No.

Sadhaka : Then how can we practise the yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : You must have the will for it : will and desire are two distinct things. You have to distinguish between true and false movements in the nature and give your consent to the true ones.

Sadhaka : We must use our Buddhi – intellect – for distinguishing the true from the false.

Sri Aurobindo : It is not by Buddhi or understanding that you perceive these things, – it is by an inner perception or vision. It is not the intellect but something higher

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that sees. It is the Higher Mind in which that inner perception, intuition etc. takes place.

All true knowledge is by identity, not at all by the intellectual reason. You may put the knowledge into an intellectual form by the Buddhi or intellect, but the knowledge is essentially by identity. You know anger by being one with it, though you can detach yourself and see it as something happening in you. All knowledge is like that.

The discrimination therefore isnot rational but automatic by an inner perception. There is also a faculty called revelation which represents the Truth in terms of figures; there is also inspiration which is heard as a voice either in the mind or in the heart. Even this is a very hard practice. One has to be on guard against the lower movements like self-sufficiency, vanity etc., and reject them.

Sadhaka : I want to know what should be the way of my family life. Should I observe Brahmacharya – celibacy?

Sri Aurobindo : We do not make rules in this yoga. Of course, if you followed the direct Supramental yoga then it would be compulsory. But even in a preparatory yoga it is better if you can observe Brahmacharya. You have to grow from humanity into something higher and so you must get away from the animal level. In the Supramental yoga no lower movementsshould be indulged in from the lower poise.

Sadhaka : So it is better to observe Brahmacharya?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, if you can observe it is better, though one does not make a hard and fast rule about it. There are three things in the vital nature which are very great obstacles in the yoga – there are many others besides but they are of minor importance. 1. Lust. 2. Pride and vanity – that "I am a great Sadhak" etc. 3, Ambition for success or greed for money.

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Sadhaka : I want to know how I am to receive spiritual help from you ?

Sri Aurobindo : That depends upon your faith and sincerity.

Sadhaka : But suppose I am not here and stay at my place and find some difficulty, then how should I receive your help ?

Sri Aurobindo : You must detach yourself from the obstacle and watch it and then you have to call down the help from Above. You can always receive my help if once the relation is established. Man is not confined to the physical body. The real Soul has almost nothing to do with the physical man. It is not necessary for me to give my thought to you, the subliminal self can give the necessary help even without the thought-mind knowing anything about it.

Sadhaka : So I can go to my place now ?

Sri Aurobindo : Keep writing about your experiences and your progress.

3–1–1924

Raghunath P. Thakar, a Brahmin from Virpur near Rajkot, came to see Sri Aurobindo. He had been to some saint at Rupal (near Kalol), had practised Rajayoga, also some Hathayoga and met Nathuram Sharma in Kathiawad. (The appointment was given on the 3rd January 1924.)

Sri Aurobindo : What is the aim of the yoga you want to practise; that is to say, what do you expect from this yoga ?

Raghunath : Vrtti nirodha-" the control of the waves and vibrations of consciousness" and to be one with God.

Sri Aurobindo : That is the aim of Rajayoga and you should go to a Rajayogi Guru.

Raghunath : I have come to take up any path that you may point out. I always had the idea that I should get

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something from you. I am ready to do what you tell me.

Sri Aurobindo : Your vital and physical systems are very weak and this yoga makes very strong demands. In this yoga we do not run away from the difficulties. So all of them are concentrated against the sadhaka. Therefore, one must be very strong to fight out the forces successfully.

Raghunath : I would do what you ask me to do.

Sri Aurobindo : I will consider the matter and let you know.

In the meantime it was brought to Sri Aurobindo's notice that this man had tried to practise Hathayoga without a Guru and had begun with Khechari Mudra, Tratak and Uddiyan accompanied by Kapal Bhati Pranayama and ended by being sick. Raghunath was all along thinking that Sri Aurobindo was a great Hathayogi, because he meditated with open eyes and was able to do Uthāpana, levitation.

Disciple : Raghunath says that he has made up his mind.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, but I have not made up my mind.

Disciple : In Khechari Mudra the lower connecting line of the tongue is to be cut.

Sri Aurobindo : I think Keshavananda at Chandod also had his tongue freed by cutting it for Khechari.

Disciple : What is, after all, the result of Khechari Mudra?

Sri Aurobindo : I believe it leads to a kind of trance which may give a certain Ananda.

Disciple : The idea seems to be to invert the freed tongue so as to close the passage of breathing. The two nostrils are called the Ida and Pingala currents of Prana. The third is Sushumna on the crown of the head. When these two are stopped, by inverting the tongue and blocking the passage of breathing, then Sushumna begins to function. The theory is that Nectar – Amrita – is dropping from the Sushumna even now but as the tongue dose not

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taste it man does not enjoy the nectar. There is also a tradition that in Khechari Mudra one is able to fly.

Sri Aurobindo : It only gives a kind of trance and a consequent Ananda : I do not know what else it does.

Disciple : And about Tratak ?

Sri Aurobindo : It only clears the sight and ultimately helps in opening the subtle sight between the eye-brows. I don't think there is any other use of it.

On the 6th January Sri Aurobindo gave his final decision about Raghunath P. Thakar.

Sri Aurobindo : He has his own ideas and if he wants to practise Rajayoga he must go to a Rajayogi Guru. For this yoga his mind must undergo a radical change. My giving him the yoga at present is out of the question. If he wants to prepare himself he can practise the separation of Purusha and Prakriti.

+ + +

1-1-1924

Two Tamil brothers of whom, the elder was a pleader, wanted to meet Sri Aurobindo this morning.

They claimed to be guided here by the spirit of their eldest brother, Jagan Nathan, who had died at Rangoon on 1st December 1918. They brought with them three note-books containing his communications and some automatic writings. The younger brother was the medium.

Sri Aurobindo glanced over the pages of the book and said :

"Some of the answers are meaningless. The definition of 'genius' does not make any sense.

This man must first of all ascertain whether it is his brother who is communicating with him. And secondly, how dose he know that what the spirit writes or says, is under my inspiration?

Generally what happens in such cases is that the spirit

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tells just the thing that is present in the subconscious part of the medium; the spirit that communicates knows it and gives it out; or if someone present at the planchette has some thought in his subconscious or conscious being the spirit gives it out.

Of course, spirits can act on their own through mediums, or those who have passed away or those who are living can communicate through them. But in that case the medium must be very powerful and pure.''

The brothers wanted to meet Sri Aurobindo. On being requested by the disciple Sri Aurobindo said : "If they come to me because of the spirit's guidance then it is not sufficient preparation for the yoga."

The report was that they had seen Sri Aurobindo in a dream asking them to come to him, in addition to the guidance of the spirit of their dead brother.

The two brothers were disappointed when they could not meet Sri Aurobindo. It was conveyed to them that the demand for the yoga should not depend upon a planchette communication; it must come from a deeper source. And they must leave the judgment about their fitness for yoga to Sri Aurobindo.

Sri Aurobindo sent the following instructions to them :

"The younger brother who has allowed himself to be mediumised should be told that it is very dangerous for him to meddle with this spirit-world without proper knowledge. It is especially dangerous for people who are themselves not strong.

He should, after giving up this practice, make his mind strong by the Karma-yoga. It will require him to give up his desires and his ego. He can do his actions in the spirit of devotion, offering them all as a sacrifice to God. He can thus practise dedication of all his actions to God and try to see Him in all men and in all happenings. That would be his meditation.

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At present he cannot take up this yoga because this is a yoga of self-surrender in which he has to open himself to a higher Power. But as he has already opened himself to other spirits such a passive state would not be good for him. All sorts of spirits would come and try to take possession of his being. So it is not safe for him to take up this yoga, apart from other considerations."

3–1–1924 (Second Interview)

Amritlal Sheth of Saurashtra saw Sri Aurobindo this morning for a few minutes.

Amritlal : I want to know how I can keep down weaknesses of my own nature. If the remedy requires me to give up the work that I am doing, I am afraid; my nature would not allow it. I am painfully conscious of my own shortcomings.

Sri Aurobindo : Weaknesses are natural to man; in fact, I have never met a person who was perfect.

Amritlal : I feel elated when people honour me.

Sri Aurobindo : If people honour you it is none of your concern to accept the honour. You have to become indifferent to it and go on doing your work.

Amritlal : What is the way to remove these weaknesses ?

Sri Aurobindo : One way is to keep them down by a sort of mental control or by making your will strong. Of course, you can't get rid of them in that way. But you can keep them down so that they may not trouble you.

My way of dealing with them is quite different. What one speaks of as check or control is always a moral control. All such solutions are mental while I would deal with them spiritually. That method is quite different.

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Visitors from Kakinada Congress

Some visitors from the Kakinada Congress came to Pondicherry and according to the French law they were asked by the C.I.D. police, usually watching the Ashram gate to declare themselves. The crowd was large and, being fresh from the Congress, not in a mood to submit to the demand of the French law. So it moved towards the sea, and one or two Sadhaks also along with it. The French Police in uniform approached these visitors and asked them to go to the Police Station for declaration.

There was argument and some scuffle and the visitors wanted to take the matter to the court. This would cast reflection on the Ashram as the visitors had come to it and also as some Sadhaks were moving with them. Since this affected the Ashram, the information was conveyed to Sri Aurobindo. At first he sent word that "no case should be proceeded with, and things must be settled with the Police Commissioner".

But the visitors – some of them at any rate – wanted to make a case. This information was also sent to Sri Aurobindo. Generally he did not come out between 1 and 4.30 p.m. But as the matter was urgent he came down at 3 o'clock and said: "What is all this trouble about? I have been staying here so long and I have my own status with the French Government. They have not only given me protection but treated me with great courtesy. If the visitors want to make a case it is their own look-out, but I do not want to make any case. Our business is with the officials and not with the policeman. If we have to say anything we must go and inform the officer and not talk to the policeman. It is absurd for me to think of going to court. I am not only a non-co-operator, I am an enemy of British-Empire. If the visitors, who are non-co-operators want to make a case it is their business."

He then instructed two disciples to go to the Police Commissioner and inquire about the matter and make the

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position of the Ashram clear by saying : “We do not invite visitors; so it is the affair of the Police to deal with them. But none of the inmates of the Ashram should be treated in the same manner."

Next day he explained :

''It is an attempt, once more, to break through the quiet atmosphere which I have succeeded in creating here with great difficulty. The forces have been trying to create the old political situation. When I first came here it was a very difficult situation. Now our connection with the French Government is purely formal, almost mechanical.

These visitors bring so many things with them and they may cast things on people here. I do not mean it is their fault. But one must keep them separate."

10–1–1924

A young man from Tinnavelly, knowing Sanskrit, came this morning and wanted to see Sri Aurobindo. He said he had received inspiration from Para Shakti to go to Sri Aurobindo who is Bhagawan. He was directly going up the staircase without asking anyone when he was stopped. It seemed that he had been fasting for some days; he brought fruits to offer to Sri Aurobindo.

Disciple : Like the other man, shall I send this one to Raman Maharshi ?

Sri Aurobindo : He won't, probably, go, because the Para Shakti has not asked him to go there. Very inconvenient Para Shakti ! She has asked him to come here!

There are only two ways. One is to send him to X [one of the disciples].

Disciple : I have hardly finished with Y.

Sri Aurobindo : (to another disciple) But when he turns up tomorrow what are you going to tell him ?

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Disciple : I will tell him it is impossible to see you.

Sri Aurobindo : What has he come for ?

Disciple : He says he has come for Maha Mantra. I asked him if he was ready to do anything you ask him to do. He said "Yes". Then I told him you might ask him to go back. He said he would if you asked him to. He can talk in Sanskrit.

Sri Aurobindo : That means he wants to see me ! I have no time to listen to his Sanskrit.

16–1–1924

The man who came with inspiration from Para Shakti was finally seen by Sri Aurobindo who found that his physical and vital beings were weak and his mind lacked discretion. He therefore decided to send him back. "These – the physical and vital and the mental – parts are the basis; unless the ground is there no structure can be raised on it," he said.

A wire was sent in reply to Krishnashashi asking him not to come to Pondicherry. (Krishnashashi, a Sadhaka from Chittagong, had become deranged in mind). Another wire was sent to a disciple at Calcutta to stop Krishnashashi from proceeding to Pondicherry.

The contents of a letter from a pleader of Wardha – one Mr. Rajwade – were read out to Sri Aurobindo. It showed signs of increasing mental disorder. He wanted to become a yogi, a writer and then an M.A. and L.L.M., if possible ! He wanted to borrow Rs.3000/- if Sri Aurobicdo promised him that he would finish the course.

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Sri Aurobindo : Which course ? You mean the course to madness? He wants me to finish his course?

Disciple : It is very strange that there is a tendency to draw mad people here at present,

Disciple : That Para-Shakti-man has been giving away his clothes one by one every day to somebody !

Sri Aurobindo : I hope he won't turn up tomorrow without anything on ! (Laughter)

Disciple : It would be a sight for the Gods !

Disciple : First of all, it would be a sight for you ! (Laughter) Madness has certainly some attraction for Sadhana. I counted eight mad men with X of Bengal.

Sri Aurobindo : I must say I have not yet advanced to the stage of having so many ! (Laughter)

Disciple : There is a proposal that where there is a centre of Sadhana there ought to be, side by side, an asylum – I mean a lunatic asylum ! (Laughter)

Sri Aurobindo : It is not a bad idea. You can entrust it to our X.

Disciple : I am afraid somebody may be required to take charge of me ! (Laughter)

The topic then changed. After some time –

Sri Aurobindo : Have you seen the papers to-day ? Dr. P. C. Ray has conclusively proved that the Charkha is economically paying.

Disciple : Is it so because the report says that the Germans have taken to it ?

Sri Aurobindo : No, no. He has proved that with the Charkha a man can earn four rupees per year or perhaps per month. I don't remember ! (Laughter)

DiscipIe : Even the most trusted workers in Khadi have had to admit that the Charkha cannot stand as an independent industry from the economic point of view.

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Sri Aurobindo : It seems to me the height of unpracticality.

Disciple : The Modern Review and other papers have been complaining that fine-silk-weaving and gold-lace work and other fine handicrafts are being starved because of insistence on Khadi, while foreign-made imitation Khadi is coming to India unchecked ! The artisans of. Pattan, Surat, Paithan etc. are without a market for their fine products!

Sri Aurobindo : The way they are proceeding they might completely destroy even a little of the fine artistic value that is left in the country.

Disciple : The other movement to prevent milk from the villages being sold to the dairy is also very unjust to the villager. It hits him economically because the dairies pay a higher price for the milk. It is very unfair to ask the villager not to sell his milk and get a higher price.

Sri Aurobindo : The standpoint of these workers seems to be that as we are poor, let us become poorer still and die.

The talk then turned to a shooting tragedy at Calcutta. A young Bengali shot Mr. Day, mistaking him for Mr. Taggart, the Chief of Police in Bengal,

Disciple : It would have been better if the young man had killed himself immediately after the shooting so that he would at least have had the satisfaction of thinking that he had killed Taggart ! Now, perhaps, he will be transported for life and he knows that he has not killed Taggart.

Sri Aurobindo : According to the law he must be hanged. Then he will be greatly disappointed in heaven, if he does not find Taggart there ! (Laughter)

Disciple : He will have to come back to take Taggart with him to heaven.

Sri Aurobindo : By that time Taggart may go even otherwise.

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9–2–1924

Mahatma Gandhi had an interview with Dilip Kumar Roy at Poona. The main subject discussed was "art". During the talk Mahatmaji said he was himself an artist, that "asceticism was the highest art". He expressed the view that he had kept the Ashram walls bare of any paintings because he believed that walls were meant for protection and not for painting. He maintained that no art could be greater than Nature's – Life is the greatest art, etc.

Disciple : Did you read Gandhiji's view on art ?

Sri Aurobindo : No. I did not. What does he say ?

Disciple : He has said to Dilip that asceticism is the greatest art and no art can be greater than Nature's.

Disciple : He has looked at the sky studded with stars in the silent night and finds no art greater than that.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, it is an old idea, – I believe Tolstoian – that Nature's is the greatest art.

Disciple : He may be feeling some scruples about his qualification in the matter of arts, for he says, "My friends smile when I say that I am an artist." He maintains that Khadi is artistic.

Sri Aurobindo : It would be quite another thing if he said, "Khadi can be made artistic". As it is, no one can say it is artistic.

Disciple : Why not? Sometimes it is compared to pearl-white in its colour. There is the stamp of the individual on it – while mill-made cloth is mechanically uniform.

Sri Aurobindo : But nobody says that mill-made cloth is artistic.

Disciple : Khadi is an emblem of purity !

Sri Aurobindo : It is always a sign of a weak mind when one tries to combine things that rationally cannot be puttogether such as purity, swaraj, politics, religion etc. with Khadi! Nobody objects to Khadi being used on its own merits.

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Why not use it as such ? Why put music, religion, swaraj etc. into it ?

Disciple : In the days of Khilafat-agitation they used to say : "Swaraj is Khilafat" (meaning thereby the identification of Khilafat" agitation with the fight for swaraj); "Khilafat is cow" (because the cow, the emblem of Hinduism, should be protected by the Muslims !); and we used to say "Yes, Swaraj is a cow" ! (Laughter)

3–8–1924

An interview concerning instructions for Sādhanā to a disciple :

Disciple : What is the distinction between pure mind and vital mind ?

Sri Aurobindo : Pure mind simply judges or watches, arranges and accepts the Truth, while vital or dynamic mind acts. Pure mind does not act in that way.

Disciple : Why is the presence of the higher Power not felt in the vital being ?

Sri Aurobindo : Because the physico-vital is not yet completely taken possession of by the higher Power. The physico-vital is a very thick layer and when you work it out once, it again covers up the vital being and, for the time being, tries to appear as the whole movement in the vital.

Disciple : How to know whether a movement takes place in the vital mind or in the physical mind ?

Sri Aurobindo : You can always know it by this test : if it goes on repeating almost mechanically one and the the same thing without creating any new movement, then it is in the physical mind.

If the movement is rooted in the physical mind the best thing is not to give it any importance. The physical is very obstinate; whereas a movement that

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takes place in the vital or the mental is very subtle and creates new forms. These difficulties persist to the very end. You must clearly distinguish between various movements in the lower being. We do not want to leave out in our yoga the common and even the petty things".

4–8–1924

Morning talk on Sādhanā :

Disciple : What is the distinction between the vital mind and the mental will ?

Sri Aurobindo : The vital mind is an impulse first and thought afterwards. It is, you can say, force first and thought afterwards. For instance, desire – if deprived of the personal element – is an impulse or force going out or trying to realise itself.

While mental will is the will connected with thought. It is primarily a thought-force. Every thought has its will. Even in the Supermind there is a distinction : there is sometimes a force that tries to realise itself while there is at times a knowledge that tries to be effective, though primarily it is knowledge and secondarily force. In the highest Supermind the two are one : Truth and Force knowledge and will – both are simultaneous and effective.

The Sadhaka must make the calm and equality absolutely secure so that whatever may happen the inner detachment and equality cannot be broken.

17–8–1924

Haribhai Amin was asked by me about, his conversation

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with Mahatma Gandtii concerning Sri Aurobindo and the pondicherry Ashram.

Haribhai : I went to see him at Poona but I did not talk to him then about Pondicherry. But when he was staying at Juhu I went to see him and then he asked me if I had visited Pondicherry. I said : ''Yes".

Gandhi : Have you taken the yoga from Sri Aurobindo ?

Haribhai : Yes.

Gandhi : Has your whole family taken the yoga ?

Haribhai : No. But I have taken the yoga, and Kashibhai is staying there, his son Mahesh has taken the yoga, and Bhaktiben has been given instructions for Bhakti yoga.

Gandhi : What is the method of yoga ? How do you meditate? Do you meditate on an image or do you practise Pranayama, Dhyan and Dharna ?

Haribhai : It is meditation but it is by quite a different method.

Gandhi : How many persons, are staying with Sri Aurobindo ?

Haribhai : About twenty.

Gandhi : Are they from different parts of India?

Haribhai : Yes, some from Bengal, some from the Punjab, some from Behar, Madras and Gujarat.

Gandhi : How many are from Gujarat?

Haribhai : About five.

Gandhi : Who are they ?

Haribhai : One is Purani, then Kashibhai, Mr. and Mrs.Punamchand and Champaklal.

Gaandhi : When is Sri Aurobindo thinking of coming out ?

Haribhai : I do not know that, but it may take two or three years to complete his Sadhana.

Gandhi : But first it was said that he would come out in 1920, then it was 1922 and now you say two or three years more !

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Harihbai : I do not know. But I think it may take two or three years.Why do you not go to Pondicherry and see Sri Aurobindo ?

Gandhi : I had sent Devadas there and after hearing from him I have no desire to see him. Devadas put certain question to him.

Sri Aurobindo was asked about these questions of Devadas.

Sri Aurobindo : All that I remember is that he asked my views about non-violence. I told him : Suppose there is an invasion of India by the Afghans, how are you going to meet it with non-violence ? That is all I remember. I do not think he put me any other question.

5-1-1925

Lala Lajpat Rai came with Dr. Nihalchand, Krishna Das, and Purushottamdas Tandon to meet Sri Aurobindo. Lajpat Rai and Sri Aurobindo met privately for about forty-five minutes; the rest of the company waited outside. From their faces when they came out it seemed both of them had agreed on many points.

Sri Aurobindo then met the other members of party. He turned to Purushottamadas Tandon.

Sri Aurobindo : How are things getting on at Allahabad ?

P. T. : We are trying to carry out Mahatmaji's programme.

Lajpat Rai : Are you really trying to carry it out ? (Turning to Sri Aurobindo) they are trying to capture local bodies.

P. T. : I am not in favour of that programme, because it will lead in the end to lust for power and then personal differences and jealousies would also creep in.. We cannot, in that case, justify the high hopes which people have aboutour work.

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Lajpat Rai : They expect you to usher in the golden age.

Sri Aurobmdo : But why do you give them such high hopes ?

Laipat Rai : In the democratic age you have to.

Sri Aurobindo : Why ?

Lajpat Rai : If you want to get into the governing bodies you must make big promises; that is the nature of democracy !

Sri Aurobindo : Then, why democracy at all ? The lust for power will always be there. You can't get over it by shutting out all positions of power; our workers must get accustomed to it. They must learn to hold the positions for the nation. This difficulty would be infinitely greater when you get Swaraj. These things are there even in Europe. The Europeans are just the same as we are. Only, they have got discipline – which we lack – and a keen sense of national honour which we have not got.

P. T. : The Europeans are superior to us in this respect.

Sri Aurobindo : You can't prevent such weaknesses. What you have to do is to bring about that discipline and that sense of national honour in our people. By the way, how do you like the Charkha programme ?

P. T. : I like it very much and I am trying to carry it out in U.P.

Sri Aurobindo : I don't understand how it is going to bring Swaraj.

P. T. : In the absence of a better programme, it disciplines the people and makes them do something for the nation. It brings to the front the idea of common action for a definite end.

Sri Aurobindo : The Charkha has its own importance, but it cannot bring Swaraj.

P. T. : It may if one realises the Bhava – the feeling – that is behind spinning.

Sri Aurobindo : I am afraid, you can't get that Bhava – feeling – from me.

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You can only get the work of Charkha with a sentry over me ! (Laughter)

Disciples : But why only Charkha? Why not the oil-mill? It is also common action.

P. T. : Yes, I know that India lost her independence even when there was the Charkha, the spinning-wheel. But as there is no other programme we are following it.

Sri Aurobindo : What we require is not an outward action merely – like spinning – but discipline and a sense of national honour.

Lajpat Rai : Yes, what we lack is the sense of a common interest in the midst of conflicting interests.

Sri Aurobindo : Quite so.

(The meeting ended.)

12–7–1925

Interview with V :

Sri Aurobindo : What about your sadhana.

V : It is going on well.

Sri Aurobindo : "Well," means ?

V : It is at present duller than it was before my physical illness.

Sri Aurobindo : What is the kind of experience you are getting ?

V : At first the Power was working on the mental plane. Now it is working on the vital and even below the vital plane.

Sri Aurobindo : How do you know that it is working on the vital plane ?

V : When the mind becomes peaceful I am able to see desires and impulses etc. in the vital.

Sri Aurobindo : When you have got the peace what things do you perceive coming into you ?

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V : There are thoughts that continue to come even when there is peace. Sometimes the mind gets identified with them and moves with them. Sometimes it is able to remain separate.

Sri Aurobindo : Have you experienced the separate existence of the vital being ?

V : Yes, I have.

Sri Aurobindo : How did you know that it was the vital being ?

V : Because I am able to see desires and impulses that come in it.

Sri Aurobindo : That you can see even with the mind; have you experienced the existence of the vital being separate from the mind ?

V : Yes, Seven or eight times I had the experience of a separate vital body (sheath) of my own. And I felt its existence quite separate from the mind. Sometimes that vital body used to go out also.

Sri Aurobindo : How far has the peace descended in you ?

V : It has descended down to the navel.

Sri Aurobindo : Do you not feel it descending further down ?

V : Sometimes it descends down to the toes of the feet. (After a pause) How should I proceed now in my sadhana ?

Sri Aurobindo : You have to do two things during your stay here :

1. The peace that you feel in the mind must be constant and permanent and you should feel yourself separate from all the thoughts, ideas and suggestions that may pass through your mind. That is to say, you should have the constant experience of the Purusha Consciousness. This basis of peace must be there whether you are meditating or not.

2. You should have an aspiration to separate your vital being and have its experience as a separate entity, so that the vital would be able to see the effect of other universal (vital) forces upon its own self. These are

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the two things you must try to establish during your stay here.

V : Do you find in me some progress ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, there is.

V : How far has purification taken place ?

Sri Aurobindo : There is not one meaning of the word "purity". It depends upon how you understand the word. But what I call essential purity can be attained by making the basis of peace firm and establishing the whole consciousness in the Purusha firmly. When one is firmly established in the Purusha consciousness then one has also got a basis for purity because the Purusha is "ever-pure", Nitya Suddha; he does not require purity, he is inherently pure. Afterwards the purity that remains to be established is that of Prakriti. Once one is established in the Purusha consciousness the Prakriti – nature – automatically begins to get purified,

21–9–1925 – Morning

Interview :

Narmadashanker B. Vyas, a native of Lunavada, came here some days back and wanted to take up Yoga from Sri Aurobindo. He refused to give him the Yoga saying : -"He has some demand, but I would not give him this Yoga".

A photo was taken and shown to Sri Aurobindo. It made a favourable impression and he found that the psychic being could open-though he found (on reading the photograph) that there was hardly any development of the mental being and the physical being was too weak for this Yoga. He saw him seven days later and told him that he could not give this Yoga. to him : "This "is a very difficult Yoga and it makes no less demands on the Sadhaka than

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the old methods. Everything is to be given up to the Power that is above the Mind. This Yoga accepts life but that does not mean that it accepts the ignorance of life".

The second time he was permitted to see Sri Aurobindo on the 21st.

Sri Aurobindo : "I can't give my Yoga as I do not find the necessary capacity in your nature. But, if you like, I can aive you something that may prepare you for this Yoga".

Vyas : Very well.

Sri Aurobindo : Did you follow any religious practice in your life ?

Vyas : I did only Gayatri Japa for some years when I was young.

Sri Aurobindo : Do you know the meaning of the Gayatri Mantra ?

Vyas : It is a great Shakti – power – but I do not know the meaning.

Sri Aurobindo : It means : "We choose the Supreme Light of the divine Sun; we aspire that it may impel our minds."

The Sun is the symbol of the divine Light that is coming down and Gayatri gives expression to the aspiration asking that divine Light to come down and give impulsion to all the activities of the mind.

In this Yoga, also, we want to bring down that divine Sun to govern not only the mind but the vital and the physical being also. It is very difficult effort. All cannot bear the Light of the Sun when it comes down, "Gayatri chooses the Divine Light of the Truth asking it to come down and govern the mind. It is the capacity to bear the Light that constitutes the fitness for this Yoga.

You can meditate on this Mantra, keeping in mind meaning, and you can aspire also to become fit for yoga. When you are able to fix your mind you remember any one of the forms of the Godhead. You can pray to your Ishta-Devata that he may make

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you fit for this Yoga and that it may come and work in you.

Really speaking, this Yoga is not done by the power of man; it is done by the Divine Power and so She can bring about every change in the capacity of the Sadhaka.

You should direct the aspiration towards the Supreme. When you have succeeded in doing it, you should watch all your inner activities and see what they are. Whatever you find there you must calm down. This calm you must go on deepening, so much so that you should feel quiet, wide, and large in consciousness. If you can establish this calm you will be able to do this Yoga.

The calm must become deep and so settled that even while doing ordinary work you should feel it within yourself and see the activity as something quite separate from yourself.

You should have a fixed time for meditation and must be regular in doing it. You can write about your experience from time to time.

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