Talks with Sri Aurobindo

12 JANUARY 1941

There was a long story narrated by Purani about the ex-Maharani of Baroda, how her boxes were detained and opened by a Muslim judge in Madras and handed over to the Police. The Police also detained her valuable documents.

DR. MANILAL: What type of past action makes innocent people suffer like this, Sir?

SRI AUROBINDO: Innocent people suffer everywhere! The law of Karma, perhaps. They may have been wicked in their previous lives. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: Then how can they be innocent in this life?

SRI AUROBINDO: As a reaction. In the next life they may again be wicked and fortunate. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: In her sleep X had an interesting experience of the action of the higher, and the lower forces on her body in connection with her haemorrhage. The lower forces wanted to make the physical being accept the suggestion that the bleeding should start again and the higher forces repelled the suggestion.

DR. MANILAL: How can it be explained, Sir? (Laughter)

SRI AUROBINDO: No explanation is required. It is a fact. Usually ordinary people get suggestions of illness from the subconscious in their sleep or dreams. They don't know it and get the disease. Moreover, the physical being is habituated to these things and easily accepts the suggestions; the vital being too. But if the inner consciousness is awake, the suggestions can't act.

DR. MANILAL: I don't accept suggestions, Sir.

SRI AUROBINDO: Who is "you"?

DR. MANILAL: I, Manilal, Sir! (Laughter)

SRI AUROBINDO: Who is Manilal? The surface Manilal may not accept them but there are many other Manilals whom the surface Manilal doesn't know.

DR. MANILAL: Last night I got a bit depressed, Sir, because of this shoulder pain.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, you looked as if this world were Duhkhamaya.³

(Larer on, to Nirodbaran) Now that X has got this experience she ought to be able to bring down the right kind of forces and prevent the disease from recurring.

NIRODBARAN: But how can it be practically applied?

SRI AUROBINDO: Once one has the experience, one can do it more easily. It is the power of the idea and will. If the physical consciousness is awake, it can act.

EVENING

DR. MANILAL: I am having no meditation, Sir, and no experiences. Formerly I used to feel so much peace and Ananda.

SRI AUROBINDO: That means you have progressed. You may have reached the Inconscient!

DR. MANILAL: Is the Inconscient something like Tamas?

SRI AUROBINDO: Inertia.

DR. MANILAL: How to get rid of it, Sir?

SRI AUROBINDO: By Utsaha and Kala.⁴(Laughter)

DR. MANILAL: If my state is due to the Inconscient, how do other people get meditation and have experiences?

SRI AUROBINDO: You have made more progress than them, progressed so much as to be as inconscient as you are. (Laughter) The Inconscient doesn't work in the same way with everybody. Are you becoming stupid?

DR. MANILAL: Formerly I used to feel that I was always carrying away something with me. This time nothing at all, Sir.

SRI AUROBINDO: Aparigraha!⁵(Laughter) Are you feeling stupid, forgetting things?

DR. MANILAL: No, Sir!

SRI AUROBINDO: Then it is all right. You have been here only two months now. Nirod says he has been here for so many years and he is not getting results, only medical cases.

NIRODBARAN: Ma phalesu!⁶ Even in my cases I am not making any progress.

SRI AUROBINDO: You can't say that now there are no cases.

NIRODBARAN: No, but I am not profiting by the experience.