Talks with Sri Aurobindo

28 MAY 1940

PURANI: The morning paper says that two German generals are advancing with their infantry. And French and British units are trying to join and make a line of defence before they arrive.

SRI AUROBINDO: It doesn't look as if those units will be able to do it. (After a time) This extension of the Maginot Line seems to be a myth. There are no fortifications anywhere.

PURANI: After the last war, if they had strengthened the fortifications, things would have been better.

SRI AUROBINDO: But where are the fortifications? They do not exist. That is why the Germans have walked over easily to Amiens and other places.

PURANI: The Allies seem to have stemmed the tide now.

NIRODBARAN: In one sector they are badly placed, where the Germans are attacking from the rear.

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know why they didn't provide for it.

PURANI: The R.A.F. have done very good work. They are destroying all communications, tanks, depots, etc.

SRI AUROBINDO: In the air and on the sea the British as well as the French are superior.

NIRODBARAN: Daladier wanted to bluff the Germans.

SRI AUROBINDO: Bluff? They have all the necessary information. A Deputy said to Daladier, "If France is destroyed, it will be your fault." Daladier said, "No, we have been good. But in infantry we have been outclassed."

NIRODBARAN(after a while, giving Sri Aurobindo Udbodhan to read): Here is a review of Nishikanto's Alakananda, written by one Debabrata Roy Chowdhury, who says, "Nishikanto's poetic life grew up in the shadow of Tagore's poetry; so his poems of those days are colourless like a shadow-grown tree.... Today he has found the direction towards the Beyond in the shelter of Sri Aurobindo."

SRI AUROBINDO: Tagore won't like that.

NIRODBARAN: In this same issue has come the second instalment of your life by Girija S. R. Chowdhury. This man has brought out the whole history and origin of Brahmo Samaj to show its influence on your birth and your connection with it.

SRI AUROBINDO: What have I got to do with that? My father was an atheist.

NIRODBARAN: Your grandfather, Rajnarayan, was a Brahmo. The writer links that up with your life.

SRI AUROBINDO(addressing Nirodbaran after taking up the copy and reading): Look here! He says that the people of Khulna have designated the town of Khulna the playground of Aurobindo's adolescence—because my father was a civil surgeon in Khulna. It is not true. Up to the age of five I was in Rangpur, as my father was in Rangpur, not in Khulna. I went to Khulna long after returning from England.

NIRODBARAN: From five to seven, you were in Darjeeling Loretto School, he says.

SRI AUROBINDO: He may have got that right. He says, "The place where Sri Aurobindo was born in Calcutta has not been fix yet. Nobody has tried to fix it, and it should be done." I was born in the lawyer Manmohan Ghose's house on Theatre Road. (Then Sri Aurobindo began to read and put marks in various places. He stopped at a place.) Have I said anything against immolation of the Satis anywhere?

PURANI: Not that I know of.

EVENING

News came that Belgium had surrendered. It was a surprise to us all.

PURANI: King Leopold has not consulted even his commander-in-chief Blanchard. The Belgian Government says that it won't accept the King's order and will raise another army in France.

NIRODBARAN: Yes, but how will it reach Belgium? It is really very extraordinary.

SRI AUROBINDO: The commander-in-chief is not bound to obey the king's order. The king is not the nation. The surrender means that Dunkirk—and also Calais—will fall to Germany.

PURANI: I wonder if he has been bribed.

SRI AUROBINDO: He has always been an unreliable person, used to taking many steps on his own account. The Mother said that he killed his own wife, and now he kills his country. His wife was better than he, and she would not have allowed this.

NIRODBARAN: Did he kill his wife?

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he was to blame for the accident.

The lieutenant here, who is the son of a French general, has said that Belgium's Albert Canal is almost as impregnable as the Maginot Line. There must have been some act of treason for Belgium to give way so spectacularly.

PURANI: It didn't hold out even for two weeks.

NIRODBARAN: It didn't hold out at all. We've heard so much about Holland's dams and the Albert Canal!

SRI AUROBINDO: The great defect of advanced democracy is that it listens to anything—to slogans, as they say—without being able to think or judge for itself. In the French army also at the beginning there was disaffection: "What are we fighting for? These generals will kill us in the war." All the slogans were in the air owing to German propaganda. That is the result of mass education. All that such education gives is information, and people don't know what use to make of it, how to apply it in the right and not the wrong way. It is already a difficult problem for educated people; what then about the masses? Hitler has openly said in his book that to carry the public, one has only to lie, to give false promises, and they will be with you. It shows now that what he has said is quite true.

PURANI(after some time): Jinnah seems to be seriously ill.

SRI AUROBINDO: About two days ago he gave out a statement on the Pakistan scheme.

PURANI: This Gujarati paper says he is ill. If he goes, then—

SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): Have you read what Gandhi has said in answer to a correspondent? He says that if eight crores of Muslims demand a separate State, what else are the twenty-five crores of Hindus to do but surrender? Otherwise there will be civil war.

NIRODBARAN: I hope that is not the type of conciliation he is thinking of.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not thinking of it, you say? He has actually said that and almost yielded. If you yield to the opposite party beforehand, naturally they will stick strongly to their claims. It means that the minority will rule and the majority must submit. The minority is allowed its say: "We shall be the rulers and you our servants. Our harf (word) will be law; you will have to obey." This shows a peculiar mind. I think this kind of people are a little cracked, (Looking at Purani) Don't you agree?

PURANI(after a pause): Rajkot seems to have some reforms now.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, what has happened there? This Thakur must have done something very wrong.

PURANI: Probably. It may be he is in debt and spending State money. He is an idiot. Virawalla also is now dead.

NIRODBARAN: After all, Gandhi's fast is bearing fruit. (Laughter)

SRI AUROBINDO: You mean Virawalla died as a result of fast?

NIRODBARAN: People will take it in that way.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is what I have written in the Arya—that "soul-force" sometimes creates forces which are much more violent. Gandhi may agree to the change of constitution as a result of his fast but not Virawalla's death. (Laughter)

PURANI: But the whole public feeling against him must have weighed on him.

SRI AUROBINDO: Who is this new Dewan of Rajkot? I seem to have heard his name. Was he in any legislature?

PURANI: He is a Parsi, one of the Anklesarias. He is a barrister from Bombay.