Talks with Sri Aurobindo

3 JANUARY 1941

Dr. André and we are all puzzled about Nishtha's case. She is rapidly going downhill and no definite diagnosis has been arrived at. Dr. André called Dr. Manilal for a consultation. Dr. Manilal saw her and said it was gout and that she has been asked to take chicken and fish. But the difficulty about the arrangement of cooking meat and fish couldn't easily be solved; when it was finally solved some other difficulty cropped up and Nishtha was much upset. Nirodbaran had to spend a lot of time speaking with the Mother about how things were to be managed.

SRI AUROBINDO(after hearing the report): Vichy negotiations finished? (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN; Yes. It is all about the cooking arrangement. Nishtha finished about half a chicken yesterday, though the chicken was very tough.

SRI AUROBINDO: So it is anorexia carnivora? (Laughter)

DR. MANILAL: Whenever I prescribe a meat diet to patients, I am not at ease with my conscience, Sir. So I avoid giving it whenever possible, saying that meat is not good for health. Is it the voice of my conscience, Sir?

SRI AUROBINDO: Sanskara!

DR. MANILAL: I thought it was my inner voice, Sir. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: Like Gandhi's?

DR. MANILAL: Is not meat injurious to the body, Sir?

SRI AUROBINDO: Depends on the person. Of course it makes the body heavy, I mean the subtle body. The other objection to a meat diet is the taking of conscious life.

DR. MANILAL: Isn't it tamasic? But Vivekananda used to recommend it.

SRI AUROBINDO: He said it is rajasic.

NIRODBARAN: It is rajaso-tamasic.

DR. MANILAL: Is it good for the spiritual life?

SRI AUROBINDO: Again it depends on the person. Vegetables are, of course, better. If there is no attachment to meat, it does not do any harm. I was very much attached to meat. In order to get rid of the attachment, I used to give up meat for a long period, then take it up again and again give it up until I got rid of the attachment.

DR. MANILAL: Why are there so many diseases now in the Ashram?

SRI AUROBINDO: The Inconscient!

NIRODBARAN: But surely not all are ill?

SRI AUROBINDO: Some have illnesses, others other things.

NIRODBARAN: Are we promised a better time after the Inconscient is conquered?

SRI AUROBINDO(laughing): I don't promise anything. It may be as bad.

EVENING

DR. MANILAL: Purani's cold still persisting! (To Purani) Why don't you apply the Force on yourself since you speak of it to others?

PURANI: I am applying it. I am already better.

SRI AUROBINDO: Applying Coué diligently!

DR. MANILAL(laughing): Nishtha seems to have been completely metamorphosed, Sir! She was actually running.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Divine Force is great but the force of chicken seems to be greater! (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: She is doing very well with her chicken and fish. Now she waits eagerly for her meals. After finishing half a chicken, she kept the other half for the next day!

DR. MANILAL: Gouty people are usually good eaters. The Maharaja Sayajirao was also like that. He knew which things were forbidden to him but when they were served on the table, without looking this way or that, he would go on eating everything. Afterwards somebody would say, "Sir, you shouldn't have taken those things!" and he would reply, "Oh, why didn't you tell me?" (Laughter)

Then Dr. Manilal began to tell same stories about the Maharaja.

DR. MANILAL: I remember he once lost his wallet. He had dropped it in the bathroom. He suspected somebody and charged him with the theft. When the wallet was found, the man came to the Maharaja and gave him a bit of his mind: "You are great people; I am your poor, small officer. So you could charge me with the theft. Even when I denied it you didn't believe me," etc. The Maharaja heard all that very calmly and didn't utter a single word.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but he would take his revenge afterwards.

DR. MANILAL: Yes, of course. But to listen to the abuses so calmly is unusual for a Maharaja. He was a great man except for one or two defects.

SRI AUROBINDO: More than two! (Laughter)

A case of pox had broken out in the Ashram. Dr. Manilal said after hearing the symptoms that it might be small-pox. Dr. André saw the case and said it was chicken-pox.

SRI AUROBINDO(after asking Dr. Manilal about the period of infectiousness): I had a mild attack of small-pox in Baroda and at that time there was no such illness there. A judge prepared some mango drink and asked me to take it and transferred his small-pox to me in the process. The Maharaja asked me to go to Mussouri but the illness prevented me. When I got cured, I went there but the Maharaja sent me back quickly.

Somebody named Ananda, about sixty years of age, has written to Anilbaran that he has taken up Sannyasa, is suffering from many ailments and wants to come for the Darshan.

DR. MANILAL: He will increase Nirod's work.

SRI AUROBINDO: How old is he?

PURANL: Sixty.

SRI AUROBINDO: He can postpone it for the next life. (Laughter)

DR. MANILAL: There are some here who wear the Sannyasi dress. So, he will be one of them. Dilip also puts on Sannyasi garb.

SRI AUROBINDO: But he is not called Ananda unless you call him Dilipananda. (Laughter)

DR. MANILAL: You have yourself given the name Ananda to people—to that Japanese.²

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I gave him the name but not Sannyasa. (Laughter)