Talks with Sri Aurobindo

5 JULY 1940

News has come today about the details of the naval fight between English and the French fleets in Oran. But Sri Aurobindo did not seem to be in a mood to talk. Almost all the time he listened to us.

PURANI: Pétain is being called the Führer of France.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he has realised the dream of his eighty-four.

NIRODBARAN: They say that a major part of the French [fleets] has fallen to the British.

SRI AUROBINDO: A large part.

EVENING

PURANI: The German radio says that the Pétain Government has cut off all diplomatic relations with England.

SRI AUROBINDO(laughing): There is not much relation to cut off. They have only a charge d'affaires at London. On this side things are getting tighter.

PURANI: In the Balkans?

SRI AUROBINDO: No, in Pondicherry. The Consul has left for the North, nobody knows where. The Vice-Consul also left for the North with the director of the Bank, perhaps to arrange for the currency directly without passing through the Governor. The Viceroy is coming to Madras. The French Governor is now frightened because the Pétain Government has issued orders to carry out government orders as it is the duty of the fonctionnaire to obey the superior authority. Moreover, Hitler has threatened the admirals, officials and others that if they don't obey their wives and children will be taken to the concentration camps.

SATYENDRA: Then what remains for them to resist for?

PURANI: The British also are taking strong measures, I hear. They have forbidden all British ships to touch Pondicherry. That means a blockade.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they must have done that after learning of the Governor's attitude.

NIRODBARAN: And now if diplomatic relations go, the British will take possession of Pondicherry.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not necessarily. Even if diplomatic relations go, Pondicherry may simply remain hostile without being at war.

NIRODBARAN: It seems that the Pétain Government will very soon take up a hostile attitude towards England and even go to war with her, especially now after the naval intervention.

SRI AUROBINDO: Looks like that. Their policies are lining up more and more with Germany. (To Nirodbaran) Have you seen the new constitution of France that Pétain has proposed?

NIRODBARAN: No, I haven't seen it yet.

SRI AUROBINDO: It is all authoritarianism and dictatorship. Pétain is the dictator and Weygand is the vice-dictator, I suppose the successor. Weygand, Mother says, is tremendously rich. He is one of the chief shareholders of the Suez Company.

PURANI: Dr. André seems to have been correct in his estimation of the French officials here. He said, "You will see all of them back out when the Government order comes from France. They only say big things but they don't actually want to go to war. I know about two doctors in our hospital."

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, all those who were shouting have become tame. I mean the military officers who wanted to fight with the British. One of them even wanted to commit suicide. (Laughter)

PURANI: I told Dr. André about Bulloch who has been earnest and sincere and gone to war willingly. He said that because he was a technician he had to go.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is not correct. He has gone because he wants to fight, wants to get a promotion.

PURANI: Some people say that conditions in France must be all right. The peasants must be getting enough food, otherwise they would have revolted.

SRI AUROBINDO: Who are these people?

PURANI: Some townspeople.

SRI AUROBINDO: Then the peasants in India must be very prosperous because they don't revolt. (Laughter)

PURANI: I told them that in Germany people had to be on war rations for seven years.

NIRODBARAN: Due to this blockade we shall also suffer.

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course, especially as our wheat is detained at Madras. If we had our own wheat we could go on millennium.

NIRODBARAN: Then instead of wheat we shall have rice. (After awhile) Have you read Harin's poems?

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they are good but nothing wonderful. I have read part of Anilbaran's conversations¹ too. I don't see that all of them are worth publishing. There are plenty of trivial things. A selection has to be made and even then it may not be worth publishing it.

NIRODBARAN: Besides, the style is very poor. He hasn't taken any care to present things in an elegant way.

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course I didn't speak to him in Bengali.

PURANI: It seems to me that such things require a bit of rounding off to be presentable and to have a literary value.

SRI AUROBINDO: But he may fear that it will be too much rounded off like Charu Dutt's stories! (Laughter) It is all about his sadhana. There is nothing literary there. Things like, keep your mind quiet and aspire.

PURANI: That reminds me of Noren. He says, "Charubabu says, 'Keep your mind quiet and aspire'; Sri Aurobindo also has said this. What is new in that?"

SATYENDRA: Easy to say but difficult to do.

SRI AUROBINDO: But Anilbaran seems to have done it all right. When he was asked to do it, he said he tried and his mind became quiet but nothing descended. (Laughter)

PURANI: At that time everybody used to feel something very concretely after having a talk with you.

At this point SATYENDRA began to smile, looking at Nirodbaran.

SRI AUROBINDO: That was the golden period of the Ashram. And now (looking at Nirodbaran significantly) it is the age of the "physical crust". (Laughter) The scientists have a special term for it.

SATYENDRA: But a most momentous period for us.

After a while Purani read out a poem by B. K. Thakore on Hitler. In it Thakore says, "We will gather all our might to crush you."

SRI AUROBINDO(laughing): Not so easy as in poetry. (Laughter)