Talks with Sri Aurobindo

8 JUNE 1940

PURANI: Daladier has been ousted altogether from the Cabinet.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the man whom Reynaud has taken in his place is said to be a specialist, and non-political.

PURANI: There are already plenty of political people. It seems it was Daladier who relieved Weygand and put Gamelin in his place. And when there was apprehension of trouble he sent him to the Middle East. Weygand is a Catholic.

SRI AUROBINDO: I see. Pétain also is a Catholic.

PURANI: Yes.

NIRODBARAN: Daladier is anti-Catholic?

SRI AUROBINDO: He is a radical.

NIRODBARAN (after a while): Italy is between two fires.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Russia has warned her against any move in the Balkans and America against extending the field of war while Hitler is pressing Mussolini.

PURANI: Even in today's paper there is something about American pressure on Italy. America has already sent some dive-bombers, it seems, lending them to the Allies.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not lending but sending to some company which will forward them. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: Hitler is quietly swallowing all that. He does not utter a single word of threat against America.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he is very cautious. He does not want her to join the Allies.

SRI AUROBINDO(after a while, laughing): J has written to the Mother denouncing her action in supporting the French who are killing the communists. (Laughter)

PURANI: Still he has his sympathy for the communists? But he didn't write about his approaching marriage?

SRI AUROBINDO: Marriage?

PURANI: Yes, as soon as his B.A. result is out he will get married.

NIRODBARAN: How can he write about it? It will bring denunciation on him.

PURANI: He is going to marry in his caste.

SRI AUROBINDO: Communists have castes?

PURANI: He has seen in Bombay, perhaps, that educated girls are more forward and won't tolerate any subjection.

NIRODBARAN: Has his health improved?

PURANI: Yes. He says he is much better now. He wrote to the Mother about his health.

SRI AUROBINDO: Marriage might do him good—make him sober. Because much of his trouble was due to sexual imbalance.

NIRODBARAN: Yes, but who will be the unfortunate bride, I wonder!

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, she may be unfortunate.

PURANI: He is going about giving lectures on Yoga, the Ashram and you. His communist comrades don't understand how he, being a communist, praises you. They think, "Is he a black sheep in the fold or what?"

SRI AUROBINDO: A bi-striped animal. (Laughter)

PURANI: The socialists in Bombay are not in the forefront now.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why?

PURANI: After the seceding of Masani, they have lost ground.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why has Masani seceded?

PURANI: He does not seem to have found anybody sincere among them. He now lives a retired life.

SRI AUROBINDO: The socialists generally have not stood the test. In the beginning there were sincere people, but later on they became respectable. The communists are more idealistic than the socialists. They have to live and work in obloquy and that requires sincerity. It is like religion. When a religion is new and fresh, plenty of people come in, but as it gets older it is no longer so; people become respectable and it becomes a church. (After a pause) Why does J say that the French are killing the communists? They are only imprisoning them.

PURANI: Because of the death penalty hanging over them.

SRI AUROBINDO: That, only if they do any subversive activity like interfering with the soldiers. They were trying to make a pact with Hitler.

PURANI: The French seemed to have destroyed seven hundred tanks.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yesterday it was four hundred—a very good number.

PURANI: Today's paper says seven hundred.

SRI AUROBINDO: Which paper? The Hindu?

PURANI: No, The Indian Express. (Laughter) Hitler is not dive-bombers in the attack this time.

SRI AUROBINDO: He did at first, but it was not effective due to the measure adopted on the direction of Weygand—that the troops should disperse as soon as a bomber arrives, and close in after it has left. Bombers are very costly.

SATYENDRA: If they can hold on for a month, it will create very good effect; it will give confidence to the soldiers.

SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, if they can hold on for a month, then they will be able to hold on as long as they like. (Addressing Nirodbaran) Have you read Krishnaprem's review of The Life Divine?.

NIRODBARAN: Yes.

SRI AUROBINDO: How do you find it? (Nirodbaran gave a laugh.)

SATYENDRA: He says that the two denials are the same as in Buddhism— their avoidance points to the middle path.

PURANI: And Mahayana's equation of Nirvana and Samsara also is the same teaching as in The Life Divine—about the acceptance of life.

SRI AUROBINDO: Did Buddha say that? I thought he preached renunciation.

PURANI: It is the Mahayana school, which came into existence after Buddha, that holds this view of the acceptance of life. The Hinayana school does not.

SATYENDRA: Everybody finds things in The Life Divine according to their own predilection. Somebody found Tantra and Krishnaprem finds Buddhism.

SRI AUROBINDO: Especially as he is in a Buddhistic phase now.

NIRODBARAN: Sisir says that the reviewers should give quotations from the writers. That is the modern trend now.

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't find that in the New Statesman and Nation. On the other hand, sometimes their quotations are irritating, especially in poetry. But they should give quotations in poetry.

EVENING

The newspaper and radio said that the British Army in the west had retreated in the face of the German attack.

SRI AUROBINDO: So the British troops are getting mastery in retreat? They have withdrawn to Brussels leaving their former position. They say that their division consists of the Highlanders. The Highlanders are better fighters. It is the territorial force, I think, without any sufficient training, that has been pushed to the front. Even if it had been the Expeditionary Force it would have been something.

NIRODBARAN: They could not hold on even for a day! It is said that the German pressure was heavy in that sector.

SRI AUROBINDO: So was it in the French sector. They should be withdrawn to the rear and first given some training in fighting or removed to the Maginot Line.

NIRODBARAN: They could be set to deal with the tanks in the rear.

SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, they will be no good for that!

PURANI: Hitler must be getting wild with America.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why? Has he said so anywhere?

PURANI: No, they are sending naval planes, dive-bombers and all possible help short of sending an army.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the isolationists are quiet now.

NIRODBARAN: Gayda is trying a little outburst.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if America intervenes in Europe, why shouldn't we intervene in America? Roosevelt knows that the Nazis will do it in any case; so there is nothing much to lose. (After a while) We are getting more anti-imperialistic letters denouncing our help to the imperialistic Allies. Jatin Sen Gupta, also, it seems, has written to the Mother.

PURANI: That contractor?

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.

PURANI: It is, as Satyendra says, due to the big figure of 10,000 francs. They don't know that it is equivalent to only a few hundred rupees. (Laughter)

SATYENDRA: About seven or eight hundred.

PURANI: They also don't know about the political movement here against us.

SRI AUROBINDO: This contribution should stop it. They should know that I have been living here under the protection of the French Government. Were it not for that, I would now be in an English prison. And apart from that, after India, France has most of our disciples and some have gone to the front in Belgium. The Mother's nephew is there—he was in Belgium—we don't know if he is still alive. And France has the best sale of our books. Though it was spreading to Czechoslovakia and then through Switzerland to Italy, even to Chile where somebody wanted to translate Thoughts and Glimpses. Now all that is stopped due to this war.

If Hitler achieves domination of the world there won't be any national independence left anywhere and spiritual work will be doomed. England and France are bad enough but still some liberty of thought and spirituality are left under them. Besides, as I don't hold the principles of the objectors, why should I act according to them?

PURANI (after a pause): The Modern Review has brought out an article on the Khaksar movement. I haven't read it as yet.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Sunday Express says that the Khaksar movement was being fed from Germany.

PURANI: It is quite true. That came out in the secret police investigation. That is why the Indian Government came down on them and Sikandar Hyat could not protect them any more.

NIRODBARAN: Hitler has duped them with Muslim Raj?

SRI AUROBINDO: No, maybe independence of India. This Mushriki has been to England?

PURANI: Yes, he is an I.C.S. Independence by Hitler? He says that Indians are a primitive race.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, even the other day when he was to be friendly with England and to divide France, he said white races should keep the black races under subjection.