Sri Aurobindo : conversations
THEME/S
6th January, 1939
Disciple : What are the methods in Sadhana for removal of the ego?
Sri Aurobindo : There are two methods of effacement of the ego :
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1. By realization of the spirit above and of its nature of purity, knowledge etc.
2. By humility in the heart.
Disciple : What is the difference?
Sri Aurobindo : The second method does not remove the ego but makes it harmless' it would therefore help one spiritually. Complete removal of the ego takes place when one identifies oneself with the Spirit and realizes the same Spirit in all. Also when the mental, vital and physical nature is known to be derivative from the Universal Mind, universal vital and the universal physical then the same result ensues. The individual must realize his divinity i.e. his identity with the Transcendent or the Cosmic Divine.
Generally, when one realizes the Spirit, it is the mental sense of the ego that goes, not the entire ego-sense. The dynamic nature retains the ego – especially the vital ego. So, the best thing would be to combine the two – for the psychic attitude of humility helps in getting rid of the vital – dynamic – ego.
The complete dissolution of the ego is not an easy thing. Specially important is the removal of mental and vital ego, the other ego of the physical and of the subconscient can be dealt with at leisure. That is to say, they are not so absorbing.
As I said, humility helps in the removal of the vital ego, but one must remember that it is not outward humility.
There are many people who profess and show the
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utmost outward humility, but in their hearts think : "I am the man!"
Disciple : "X" when he came for a short day, he found that you lacked the virtue of humility or modesty.
Sri Aurobindo : How does he know? Perhaps I did not profess like some other people that I was nothing. I could not do that because I know I am not nothing.
Disciple : Were you modest when you have not taken to yoga?
Sri Aurobindo : There was a sort of voluntary self-effacement, I liked to keep myself behind. But I can't say that I was more modest within than most people.
Disciple : Mahatmaji, when he finds somebody in disagreement with him on principle, would say : "He is superior to me, he is my elder, etc; but I differ from him".
Sri Aurobindo : Does he really consider the other one superior, that is the question. When I differed from some one I simply said 'No' or "I don't agree" and kept to my view. The answer given to Suren Banerji when he approached me for a compromise at the convention of Moderates and Nationalists, was "No" and I kept stiff. Perhaps one may not call me modest.
At the Hugli Conference we, the Nationalists, had the majority. But in order to keep up unity the Nationalists were asked by me not to oppose the compromise resolution. The Nationalists all went out. The Moderate leaders were very angry that the people did not follow their tired and veteran old leaders and so completely obeyed young leaders. Suren Banerji could not realize the
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difference between old, upper middle class leadership, due to their influence and money and the new leadership of those who stood for a principle and commanded a following.
It was at that time that people began to get the sense of discipline and of obeying the leader's orders. They were violent, but at the word of the command they used to obey. That paved the way for the Mahatma. Ashwini Kumar Dutt used to jump and say : "This is life".
Suren Banerji had a personal magnetism and he was sweet-spoken, he could get round anybody. His idea was to become the undisputed leader of Bengal by using the nationalists for the sword and the moderates for the public face. In private he would go up to and accept the revolutionary movement. He even wanted to set up a provincial board of control of the revolutionaries! Barin once took a bomb to him and he was full of enthusiasm. He even had a letter from Suren Banerji, when he was arrested at Manik Tola. But in the court they hushed up the matter as soon as Norton pronounced S. N. Banerji.
The constitution of Aundh was brought in by a disciple.
Disciple : Aundh State has given a very fine constitution to the people. It has conferred wide powers on the Panchayats. Such constructive work among the villages would prevent communism. They are thinking of introducing co-operative farming.
Sri Aurobindo : Co-operative farming is an excellent thing; it would develop agriculture. But dictatorship of the
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proletariat is a different thing. It may have a very fine constitution on paper, but it is quite different in practice. In such a system all men are made to think alike.
Religion is a different affair, it is voluntary; but country is quite different from the church. You can't choose your country. If you make all people think alike there can't be any human progress. If you were to differ from Stalin or Lenin you would be liquidated.
These dictators have remarkably few ideas : Take for example Hitler. He believes that :
I The Germans are the best people in the world.
II. Hitler should be the leader.
III. All the Jews are wicked persons.
IV. All the people in the world must be Nazis.
I do not understand how humanity can progress under such conditions.
Disciple : The tendency of all governments is to increase taxes.
Sri Aurobindo : All governments are robbing, some with legislation, some without. You can well imagine the condition in which you have to give 50% of your income as taxes and have to manage with the rest as best you can.
Disciple : The Customs also charge too heavily.
Sri Aurobindo : It is another form of robbery and yet in spite of it all, I don't understand how France produces only 250 aeroplanes as compared to 1000 of Germany!
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I don't know what these governments do with the huge sums they get. There is a sufficiently honest administration in England. The public are uneasy about the war.
Smuggling there almost seems a virtue, because it is robbing the robber! (Laughter)
Even some of the princes are caught smuggling.
Disciple : There is now a movement for separating the C.P. Marathi-speaking and Hindi-speaking. It has weakened the Congress.
Sri Aurobindo : Nagpur was a very good centre of the Nationalists. The two portions – Marathi and Hindi – should have been separated to begin with.
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