Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

  Sri Aurobindo : conversations


8th January, 1939.

Disciple : Can one way that snoring is the protest of the subconscient against somebody's presence? (Laughter )

Sri Aurobindo : Against whom? against whose presence when one snores alone! (Laughter)

Disciple : We read in the papers about the conversion of John Middleton Murry to theism. It was Hitler's statement after the purage that he "embodies justice and law",

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that, he dispenses with "trials"which made Murry consider him as the Anti-Christ. It seems Gandhian non-violence has also appealed to Hitler. He wants to become a village pastor and stop the flow of villagers to the cities. Gandhi has written about Hitler's regime that the sufferings of Bishop Niemuller are not in vain. He has covered himself with glory. Hitler's heart may be harder than stone, but non-violence has power to generate heat that can melt the stonier heart. What do you think of that?

Sri Aurobindo : I am afraid, it would require quite a furnace! (Laughter) Gandhi has mainly to deal with Englishmen and the English want to have their conscience at ease. Besides, the Englishman wants to satisfy his self-esteem and wants world-esteem. But if Gandhi had to deal with the Russian Nihilistsnot the Bolshevitesor the German Nazis then they would have long ago put him out of their way.

Disciple : Gandhi is hopeful about the conversion of Hitler's heart or about the German people throwing him over.

Sri Aurobindo : Hitler would not have been where he is if he had a soft heart. It is curious how some of the most sentimental people are most cruel. Hitler, for instance, is quite sentimental. He weeps over his Mother's tomb and paints sentimental pictures.

Disciple : It is "the London cabman's psychic" as you said the other day.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. Men like Hitler can't change, they have to be bumped out of existence :  There is no chance of their changing in this life. He can't get rid of his crueltyit is his blood.

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Not that the British can't be brutal and sentimental too. But they can't persist as the Germans and the Russians in their brutality. The Englishman may be sentimental, but he likes to show off that he is practical, prosaic and brave. In the Russian, you find a mixture of cruelty and sentimentalism. He can break your neck and in the next moment embrace you. The English man behaves quite well, if you give him blows on his face when he treats you badly.

Disciple : In Fiji islands there was the case of a Punjabi from a good family, who went there as an indentured labourer. An Englishman was his supervisor and used to beat him every day, in spite of his doing the hard allotted work.

One day the Punjabi got fed up and caught hold of him and threw him on the ground and went on giving him blows. Then the Englishman said "that will do!" He got up and shook hands with him and the two became great friends! (Laughter)

Disciple : There was the case of Shamakant, the tiger-tamer, an athlete of Bengal. While he was traveling some Tommis came and tried to show their strength. He knocked them so well that they were extremely glad to get out of the compartment at the next station. They did not expect a Bengali to be so strong.

Another time the train at Howrah was stopped, as there was a fight between an Englishman and a Bengali. There was a cry of "Bande Mataram" and the whole train came out.

Sri Aurobindo : That was the sudden transformation during the Swadeshi days. Before that the people used to

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tremble before an Englishman in Bengal. The position was even reversed.

I remember when I wanted to do political work I visited Bengal and toured the districts of Jessors, Khulna etc. We found that the people steeped in pessimism, a black weight of darkness weighing over the whole country. It is difficult now a days to imagine those days. I was travelling with Deva Vrata Bose; he was living on plantains and speaking to people. He had a very persuasive way of talking. It was at Khulna, we had a right royal reception, not so much because I was a politician, but because I was a son of my father. They served me with seven rows of dishes and I could hardly reach out to them, and even from others I could eat very little.

My father was very popular at Khulna; wherever he went he became all powerful. When he was at Rangpur he was very friendly with the magistrate there. We went to his cousin's place in England afterwards, the Drewettes. It was always the doctor (i.e. K.D. Ghose) who got things done at Rangpur. When the new magistrate came he found that nothing could be done without Dr. K.D. Ghose. So he asked the Government to remove him and he was transferred to Khulna. It was since that time that he became a politician. That is to say, he did not like the English domination. Before that every thing Western was good! He wanted, for example, all his sons to be great; at that time to join the I.C.S. was to become great. He was extremely generous. Hardly anyone who went to him for help came back empty handed.

Disciple : Did you see him after coming from England?

Sri Aurobindo : I could not. In fact, I was the cause of his

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death. He was having heart-trouble and the Grindlays sent a wire to him that I had started by a certain steamer. In fact I had not; and that steamer was sunk near Portugal and so when he heard the news he thought that I was drowned and he died of that shock.

Disciple : But when you were in England was he sending you money regularly?

Sri Aurobindo : In the beginning. But afterwards he sent less and less and ultimately he stopped altogether. I had my scholarship at Cambridge but that was not enough to cover the fees and other expenses. So once the tutor wrote to him about money. Then he sent the exact sum for the fees and wrote a letter lecturing to me about extravagance! (laughter)

But it was not true; I and my eldest brother at any rate, were living a quite Spartan life. My brother worked with Henry Cotton's brother in the Liberal association (Kensington) and used to get 50 shillings a week. On that and a little more we two managed to live. We had bread and a piece of bacon in the morning; at night some kind of pastry. For the winter we had not overcoat. After one year like that to talk of extravagance was absurd. But Mono Mohan could not stand it; he went out and lived in a boarding house and ate nicely without money.

There was a tailor at Cambridge who used to tempt me with all sorts of clothes for suits and make me buy them; of course, he gave credit. Then I went to London. He somehow traced me there and found Mono Mohan and canvassed orders from him (!) Mono Mohan went in for velvet suits, not staring red but aesthetic and used to visit Oscar Wilde in that suit.

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Then we came away to India but the tailor was not to be deprived of his dues! He wrote to the Government of Bengal and to the Baroda State for recovering the sum from me and Mono Mohan.

I had paid up all my dues and kept £4/a – or so. I did not believe that I was bound to pay it, since he always charged me double. But as the Maharajah said, I had better pay it, I paid.

Disciple : Did Mono Mohan follow your political career?

Sri Aurobindo : He was very proud of our political career. He used to say :  "There are two and a half men in India – my brother Aurobindo and Barin – two, and half is Tilak!" (laughter)

Disciple : How was Mono Mohan in England?

Sri Aurobindo : He used to play the poet :  he had poetical illness and used to moan out his verses in deep tones. Once we were passing through Cumberland and it was getting dark. We shouted to him but he paid no heed, and came afterwards leisurely at his own pace. His poet-playing dropped after he came to India.

Disciple : How as the eldest brother?

Sri Aurobindo : He was not at all poetic or imaginative. He took after my father. He was very practical but very easy to get on with. He had fits of miserliness.

The question of Barin when he came to Baroda and stayed for sometime was :  How can I stay with Khaserao or Madhave Rao for months and years without quarreling?

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