Evening Talks with Sri Aurobindo

IX

MOVEMENTS

30-4-1923

Arunachal Mission of Bengal wrote a letter to Sri Aurobindo. There is going to be a world-peace organ of the Mission. The founder has been rendering spiritual help to all the movements of peace under its inspiration. Somebody is working at Rome on behalf of the Mission.

Disciple : There are according to news-paper reports four­teen Avatars – incarnations – in Bengal !

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, and X suggested a committee of all the Avatars (Laughter). It was a nice idea, no doubt, but it may not turn out to be peaceful ! (Laughter)

Disciple : X wanted to convert Arya into something like an Indian academy.

Disciple : He also wanted to bring in Bahaism. His idea was something like four Lloyd Georges working together!

Disciple : Some say that the World-War was brought about by Dayanand.

 Sri Aurobindo : Yes, for world-peace ! (Laughter)

30-5-1923

 A Dream

Sri Aurobindo : "Some dreams have got meaning down to their very details". I saw one yesterday.

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There was a scientist and a magician. Both of them wanted to rescue a girl from alien enemies. The magician was the psychic and mental man who knows the truth but does not know concretisation of the same. He has the grasp of the Spirit but not of the process and its details.             

The scientist tried and the magician tried to save the girl.  The magician failed. Then the scientist tried; he found himself baffled by the opponents as they (the dasyus, hostile vital powers) were not struck down by the blows of the sword or of anything. The oppo­nents were going to a king's capital. Then they fled and the girl was taken away. The scientist was a geo­logist who had made the discovery that the strata of the earth must be measured from the top and not from the bottom.

When the enemies fled they left their things behind and did not like to go into the capital wounded. The scientist then found a big book on geology, – half as big as this room – and among things left he found the girl just between the cover and the pages. The secret of the earth, the physical nature, was thus symbolically given.

5-4-1924 

A letter from an American lady who is a preacher of Bahaism was read out.

Sri Aurobindo : Do you know about the man who started Bahaism ?

Disciple : I do not know, but it was Baha Ullah perhaps who started it.

Sri Aurobindo : It seems he was an ignorant man in the beginning, but had a sort of vital being which received

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the Light – perhaps, not from the very Highest but merit light and it is with that force that he created Bahais He used to see the Light descend on him when he was in meditation.

He had also, in addition, the power of the word which is regarded as the sign of the prophet. The words may not be something extraordinary in themselves but they would carry a certain power in them. He had also a remarkable power of telepathy which he used when he was imprisoned and he used to direct his Disciples from the prison. He had a great power of malediction  – power of cursing, – and many of his curses came true.

He caused certain letters to be written to the ruling monarchs of the time from his prison and, it is said that the manner in which each one received his message was reported to him. He cursed the Sultan of Turkey saying that Turkey would be ruined and his throne would be destroyed. Emperor Napoleon III did not receive the message well and he was also cursed. The Shah of Persia caused the messenger to be killed. I don't know what he said with regard to him. But some of his prophecies and curses have come true.

Disciple : Is it possible that one man's curse should prove true for a nation ?

Sri Aurobindo : There is no reason why it should not. Do you think that one can't curse anybody? Especially if there is a strong support of a vital being it would be effective.

Disciple : In that case the whole nation may be destroyed.

 Sri Aurobindo : It may be destroyed, if that is destined.

He cursed in the same way as Mad did.

Disciple : The American lady says that Bahaism has taken a deep root in America.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, it is true and there are some followers in France also.

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Disciple; All sorts of things seem to go on well in the U.S.A. There is Vedanta, Theosophy, Bahaism and what not.

Sri Aurobindo : Anything goes well in America, if only you know how to do it.

Disciple; Swami X seems to have spoiled the chance of Vedanta. Otherwise, it would be going on well.

Sri Aurobindo : Vedanta is too abstract for the ordinary mind. It was the personality of Vivekananda that gave the drive. But this Bahaism is just what suits the common mind.

There are now two sects run by his two sons. Abdul Baha is the younger one. He has some vital force from his father and he used to see some kind of Light in medi­tation and so he began to think of himself as the incarna­tion of the Light on earth, and whoever was received in the fold was supposed to be influenced by it. Bahaism has included certain mental concepts also e.g., toleration, universal brotherhood, equality of man and woman, etc. The other day he included Buddhism also, though he seems to know nothing about it. He has about eleven million followers of which two millions are in Europe.

If the Madans get a religion of that sort it is much better than what they are having now.

The topic was changed by the following question of a Disciple

Disciple : You said the other day that Tailanga Swamy's remaining in water (of the Ganges) for several days does not constitute perfection of the physical. What is the notion of perfection implied in the physical being's getting Supramentalised

Sri Aurobindo : (With a waving of his hands in the air) : I have no idea (Laughter). It is yet to be done. All I

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can say is that it would be something which would have in it the two fundamental laws of the Supermind Truth and Harmony.

Disciple : Would the Ashta Siddhis – the eight Supernatural powers – be attained by one who attains the Supramentalisation of the physical ?

Sri Aurobindo : You mean his hands and feet etc. can be separated (miraculously) ?

Disciple : Invulnerability, for instance.

Sri Aurobindo : I don't know; wait and see. The best thing is when you have got the Siddhi to get some one to beat you to find out whether you have become invulnerable or not. (Laughter)

The topic changed as another question regarding survival after death and projection of the being to another place came in.

Disciple : It seems that Sister Nivedita used to feel the presence of Vivekananda in the place where she lived.

Sri Aurobindo : That may be presence of the disembodied person.

Disciple : There is an idea that Swami X could appear simultaneously at three places.

Sri Aurobindo : I think it requires proof.

Disciple : Why, our friend A saw B in Calcutta and he would not believe me when I told him he was not there  – a fact which I knew to be true.

Disciple : One can easily prove that you were present at   Bhavanipore,   Ghittagong  and  Pondicherry Simultaneously!!

Sri Aurobindo : You see, you have in this example the explanation of how the Swami appeared at three places! (Laughter)

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Disciple:It may be only the psychic presence.

Sri Aurobindo : That is quite another thing ; it is possible, even thought-formation and psycho-vital formation is possible.

Disciple : Vivekananda came to Shashi Maharaj after leaving his body and told him "Shashi !  I have spat out my body",

Sri Aurobindo : That is quite possible and even common to make the presence of the disembodied Spirit felt. It occurs in many cases, especially in the days immediately after death. The Spirit comes in dreams and visions also. Usually, in ordinary cases it is for a short time, but in certain cases it may be much longer.

Disciple : Ramakrishna used to appear at many places. Hriday, his nephew, asked him to be present at the time of waving of light-arati – at the Durga Puja which he did in his village far from Calcutta. He invariably saw him at the time and Ramkrishna used to go in to a trance at Calcutta where he lived.

Sri Aurobindo : That phenomenon is not so unusual. It is the conscious use on both the sides of a power which is unconsciously possessed by most men – the power to project oneself. In this case there seems to be active the power to project even the vital being, which is not usual. There was the capacity to receive on one side and conscious effort on the other.

Disciple : I had talk with a North Indian Disciple who seems to think that a yogi who has attained knowledge must know everything.

Sri Aurobindo : Yes, the man from Palanpur who saw me to-day wants me to know all the puzzles and questions etc. You can tell your friend that one can know a thing best by identity; so that if he becomes one with the ass he can know everything about it ! You have in Yoga to know the One by knowing which everything

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would be known. What is the use of knowing all details ? Even God does not know everything directly; he manages the affair by his deputies.

Disciple : People have an attraction for miracles and siddhis, Ramakrishna used to relate a story about these siddhis. A man had attained prakamya – that is to say the power to obtain whatever he wished. One day he just got the fear : "Suppose a tiger comes!" The tiger actually came and ate him up ! {Laughter)

Disciple : Why did he not suppose that after coming the tiger become a lamb ?

Disciple : There was no time to suppose anything further {Laughter) 

6-3-1926

There was a reference to a "divine marriage" that was to be celebrated at Chandernagore. A letter and a photograph were sent for Sri Aurobindo's approval.

Sri Aurobindo : I refuse to have anything to do with the matter. It is the girl who must choose her husband, and not I.

      I can only add that .marriages, generally, are not divine ; and when they are divine no arrangements are necessary."                       

 Disciple : Some people are trying to drag these things into the Supermind ; but they must themselves get into the Supermind before they can drag others into it.

Sri Aurobindo : If they were in the Supramental, then the question would not arise, as they would never try to drag anyone into it.    

Disciple : Nowadays Chittagong people have left off writing letters.

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Disciple : Except K who sent an unpaid letter which I refused to accept without asking you.

Sri Aurobindo : You did well. We cannot afford to pay two annas to have the pleasure of reading K's letter. Money is too precious nowadays. (After some time) At times I wonder why at all I thought of bringing down the Supermind into this mass of idiots !

Disciple : Do you think it was an evil day ?

Sri Aurobindo : No ; but wherever you may go, whatever you may do the idiots will be there. You see, when there is a big dinner-party some are invited and they come, others are not invited and yet they come, and others force themselves into the party ! {Laughter)

I am really surprised why these people come to me. If they went to X they can easily find sanction for the "divine marriage" or they can go to Y who is now doing karma !

Disciple : Y did dharma and artha, – now they are doing karma and finally there will be moksa.

Disciple : There is an article in the Vivekananda Number where this theory of dharma, artha, karma and moksha is expounded : it is all in the agnimoyi – fiery – language. I don't know if they believe that people would accept these ideas.

Sri Aurobindo : Generally, people who have no brains would be carried away by the high-sounding, "fiery" lan­guage ; they do not want thought. Such language would always carry away empty headed fools.

There are some people who have the knack of using high-sounding words : I listened to Surendra Nath Banerji for half an hour and I found no thought – it was all words.

Disciple : But they – the words – carry the audience allright.

Aurobindo : Oh yes, of course ; what people require is

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some kind of vital emotion—they do not remi thought. People get tired of listening to thoughts

Disciple : Is there no thought in oratory ? Is it only an art'?

Sri Aurobindo : Not so ; but even if there is thought you have to dilute it very much and throw it into the emotional vital.

Disciple : But they say that Surendra Nath was Burke and Sheridan combined in his oratorical powers.

Sri Aurobindo : He may be like Sheridan. I do not know. Sheridan was a great orator, he never had to think for making a speech. But he was not like Burke. Burke is thought, every sentence of his is weighed with thought. Though he was a great orator he did not produce as much effect on others.

12-3-1926

Reference was made to Bhavanipore centre from where the Sadhaks had not been writing anything for some time.

Disciple : X was' never in the habit of writing even before. His theory was that everything will happen at the proper time without any effort. Just as sleep comes and you can't stop it so also siddhi of yoga comes on and you can't stop it.

Sri Aurobindo : It is not so simple as that. Yoga does not bring about sleep, I hope.

Disciple : Probably what he means is that sleep cannot be controlled; so also Sadhana.

Sri Aurobindo : But in sleep there is no question of "getting something". It is a question of stopping something-Besides sleep comes to you naturally, while yoga does not. It may seem sometimes that the first awakening

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comes without any effort on your part but afterwards it is all a slow working out.

Disciple : Perhaps, they rely upon Ramakrishna's saying that if you light a single matchstick in a dark room everything in it is lighted up.

Sri Aurobindo : And then what happens next ?

Disciple : Nothing. Everything is lighted up and the dark­ness vanishes.

Sri Aurobindo : No, the matchstick goes out.

Disciple : You take the simile too literally.

Sri Aurobindo : The simile itself is not correct. First of all the matchstick does not get lighted of itself; you have to light it. So it does not agree with X's idea that yoga would be done by itself. Secondly, the match­stick lights up a small area and there are plenty of dark corners in the room. Thirdly, the match goes out very soon.

Disciple : So the simile falls to the ground. They also used to say that if knowledge comes then all actions are completely destroyed.

Sri Aurobindo : You have not to take these utterances literally,, They only indicate certain spiritual experiences.  I should think he was quite an extraordinary man ; there is no doubt about it.

Disciple : X had a great admiration for Soham-Swami and he used to come to Bhavanipore once in the year. Perhaps if he was alive X would not have come to this _ yoga.

Sri Aurobindo : Who was the Swami-?

Disciple : He was a Vedanti yogi.

Sri Aurobindo : But Vedant does not say that you can do yoga in a wink, that one -day you get up and find everything is done ?

Disciple : If the yoga could be done in that Way it would be very good.

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Sri Aurobindo : Yes, what is the good of doing Sadhana and working long years after it ? It is in Bhakti  yoga – the path of devotion – that everything is done by  Name and Bhava – emotion. Whether the path is easy or not depends on what yoga you are doing.  In the ordinary Bhakti yoga you want a certain condition of emotional excitement, and intensity. If you can that you have done what you wanted.

Disciple : Do you think that such an emotional intensity can be kept up permanently ?    

Sri Aurobindo : That is another matter.

Disciple : If you can't keep it, that means you are unable to bear it.

Sri Aurobindo :  : Then,  also, you have viraha-bhdva – the emotion of separation, which can be a state of intensity.

Disciple : But Chaitanya's direct Disciples like Haridas did quite long Sadhana.

Sri Aurobindo : Oh yes, of course. I am not speaking of men who do the real genuine Bhakti yoga, they have to do lot of things systematically and gradually.

Disciple : There are very cheap yogis – some who used to give brahma. darsana, – vision of Brahman, for five rupees. Some press the eyeballs and make people see the "light" !

Sri Aurobindo : The Gaekwad of Baroda also used to say  the same thing. He used to say; "People say that Brahman is Light but that I see when I press my eyes. What is the difference between that and the Brahman ?"

I did not know anything about yoga at that time and so I used to say "It is not quite the same light.

Disciple : There is a physiological explanation.

Sri Aurobindo : Whatever the physiological explanation may be, it is certain that when the eyes are pressed or even without being pressed, if the mind is concentrated the centre of the psychic vision you see a light, a round

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globe of light which goes on increasing. That is not due to anything physical. It is the light from one of the inner centres, especially the. ajna cakra – the centre of will – and you can make it very bright and big by connecting it with the brahma-randhra, – the centre on the top of the head.

Disciple : Is every sense connected – like the eye with an inner centre ?

Sri Aurobindo : Yes. After all the distinctions we make between mental, vital and physcal are not quite true :

they are not separate parts – they are all one. And I think the Vedic Rishis found out a great truth when they spoke of the Sun in the physical as one with the 'highest Sun. After all the physical is as much a mani­festation of the higher. Force as anything else and I do not understand why we should not expect in it similar powers.

I had myself a remarkable experience of the psychic sight. I was at Baroda and my psychic sight was not fully developed and I was trying to develop it by dwelling upon the after-image and also by attending to the inter­val between wakefulness and sleep. Then I saw this round circle of light and when I began prānāyāma it became very much intensified.

Disciple : The Hatha yogins also can awake these cakras.

Sri Aurobindo : What the Hatha Yogi can achieve is that he gets the perfect control of the vital forces working in the body and he also controls the physical functions. This also produces some indirect influence in the mind. But I do not think that by Hatha Yoga pure and simple you can realise God.

Disciple : I know a Hatha Yogi who has done all the kriyās – movements and postures – and he said that even though he knew everything of Hatha yoga he had not seen God. He even said to me ; "I don't believe there

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is any God because I could not succeed in seeing him even after so much trouble."

Sri Aurobindo : That is because he stopped short at Hathma yoga ; he should have gone further.

Disciple : What is the use of prolonging the life of the body ?

 Sri Aurobindo : What is the harm in it ?

 Disciple: But it is only trying for a long lease of life. What use is there in it ? Vivekananda used to say that even trees have long life.

Sri Aurobindo : Well, that is not the answer. It is an epigram. I do not know why he should not recognise achievement wherever it is found.

 Disciple : But what is the idea of Hatha yoga ?

Sri Aurobindo : Why should we not value achievement for its own sake ? Even prolonging life everybody cannot do.

6-5-1926

X came to-day in spite of notice to the contrary. He was not allowed to enter any of the houses.

In the evening Sri Aurobindo said : "He had no force this time ; his movements were merely mechanical. The Mother has cut off inner contact since April and after that the forces seem to have left him."

The following letter was sent to him :

"Your aspiration to be my manifestation and all the rest of the delusions to which you have surrendered your­self are not yoga or Sadhana. They are an illusion of your vital being and your brain. We tried to cure your and for a few days while you were obeying my instruction you were on the point of being cured. But you have called back your illness and made it worse than before. You see to be no longer capable even of understanding what I write

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to you ; you read your own delusions into my letters. I do nothing more for you.

All that I can tell you is to go back to Vizianagaram and allow yourself to be taken care of there. I can make no arrangements for you anywhere. I can give only a last advice : Throw away the foolish arrogance and vanity that have been the cause of your illness, consent to become like an ordinary man living in the normal physical mind. Now that is your only means of being saved from your illness.

Sri Aurobindo"

There was a letter from Y. In reply Sri Aurobindo said : "Her experience indicates the nature of the obstruc­tion in her Sadhana. She has the ordinary feminine love and attachment and also a conventional mind. She is also attached to her children. She has to get rid of it if she wants to get along in Sadhana.

She had some aspiration in the mind and she has got some capacity there ; but she was careful to keep her vital being untouched, and. so she can't get on further unless she asks for the Truth there also".

Another letter from A to which he said in reply : It is no use her feeling the ascetic tendency. She must combine life and yoga. There is growth by meditation and also by life. She ought to try to be unattached and must bring the Higher Consciousness to bear upon life. She must do actions from that Consciousness.

As to external disturbance, tell her not to depend too much on outside circumstances for her Sadhana. In fact, "one never gets the ideal conditions. The Sadhaka must depend upon his inner force and continue his Sadhana even when there is noise. I do not see why a man should not be able to meditate when the Hindu-Muslim riot is going on.

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Meditation is one half of the development, while being able to keep the attitude all the time is the other part. When one has got the right poise he can meditate under any condition.

Disciple : Even when music is going on by the side ?

Sri Aurobindo (humourously) : This information is for those who have to suffer the noise, – not for those who make it – (Laughter}.

(The reader may note that the disciple who asked was learning instrumental music.)

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