Champaklal's Treasures - Edition-II

An Interview with Velji

An Avatār is not subject to the laws of Karma as ordinary men are. The mind, life and body of the ordinary man are formed as a result of his past Karma. The Avatar having no such past how are his mind, life and body formed?

The Avatar gets it as other men do. What has that to do with his being an Avatar? All that is only a certain movement in nature in his lower Prakriti.

If your idea is that Avatar is something miraculous and that he is not subject to the laws of Nature, then you have only the conventional notion about it. He is not miraculous in the methods he adopts. He also like others accepts the human limitations. If he did not then he ceases to have any meaning for man.

But how is his Ādhāra prepared?

It is a certain movement which takes place in his nature leaving his soul free, unaffected. If he were to use his freedom he would grow twenty arms and ten eyes. But he does not do so. Krishna says he has been taking birth always since the beginning. It is not that God is above somewhere else and has to come down. He is always here and everywhere. Only he has to manifest his Divinity.

Did Buddha live in the Supermind?

His aim was not to produce superman. His idea was to realise all this as the impermanent manifestation of the Permanent, to leave this and always remain in the permanent Nirvana State.

But his vital and physical parts did not live in Nirvana?

Evidently not.

Then were those parts subject to ignorance or were they free? If they were subject to ignorance then they could drag him down to birth again.

He could have abandoned those parts.

Then was he free?

What do you mean by freedom? Birth is a bondage so long as one is in the mental being. It only appears so. But if you look at the thing from above then there is no such thing, one is not affected by birth and death.

Then Buddha did not achieve perfection of his nature?

He may have entered the higher ignorance. You see there are infinite movements of the higher consciousness in Nature. Human mind can occupy itself with certain mental absolutes, not all. It can confine itself to the absolute of the silent Brahman or the absolute of the Infinite Power, Mahashakti, and exclude the rest of the Infinite. So many movements like this are possible. But I do not concern myself with them. Looking at the thing as a whole, we find that the aim has been to manifest more and more of the Divine.

In the Jaina philosophy there is an idea that in this age this body would not be capable of bearing the supermind.

We shall see.

They say that we have to prepare our body infield of consciousness first.

That may be the true body which is in the Supermind. We have to bring that body down into the physical. Besides Jaina philosophy is concerned with individual perfection. Our effort is quite different. We want to bring down the Supermind as a new faculty just as the mind is now a permanent state of consciousness in humanity which anybody can attain if he makes an effort. So we want to create a race in which the Supermind will be a permanent state of consciousness.

1925